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 AnonymousRabbit
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:24 PM)
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,172
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 Re: Making Art  [Re: Epigallo]
#9028013 - 10/04/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bradley said:
Quote:
but art, which embodies an effort to do something special, or beautiful or smart,
is the essence of what brings dignity into life.
Like SPs (subsequent posters) have pointed out, we are works of art in ourselves. When really grokking the vibrancy and complexity of life forms that were created by "nature" (not by the human mind), a tour of a museum seems shallow and flat to me. Doesn't this effort to create beautiful and special masterpieces seem unneeded?
some of us are works of art
others are just a piece of work, and not artful or dignified.
nature is certainly part of every piece of art,
you have latched onto separating art from nature, and onto separating man from nature, and may run into some bizzarre contradictions:
such as does a person grow up isolated from others but immersed in nature
and does a person who grows up with other people not also experience nature in the guise of those people, as well as nature which is not people.
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AnonymousRabbit
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:24 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Making Art [Re: Epigallo]
#9028029 - 10/04/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everything is nature.
But I get your point.
The reason I believe nature works for us and seems always in proper taste is that we were born into that matrix so it feels like the "right" thing to us.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Epigallo
Stranger
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Quote:
And yet we do it anyway. Existence itself, galaxies and stars, are un-needed, but yet they exist anyhow.
"Unneeded" as in superfluous, extraneous to the "real deal".
Quote:
Our art mirrors natures art
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There is the hitch. If you are "mirroring" or showing a representation of "nature's art", isn't that essentially dilluting/downplaying the greater beauty?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
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Loc: red panda village
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Quote:
Icelander said:
The reason I believe nature works for us and seems always in proper taste is that we were born into that matrix so it feels like the "right" thing to us.
This most definitely makes sense.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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AnonymousRabbit
Comrade
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:24 PM)
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Epigallo
Stranger
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Quote:
and does a person who grows up with other people not also experience nature in the guise of those people, as well as nature which is not people.
Yes, and the nature is the art in these things. I don't see why you think I am separating the two. It may be harder to notice in an urban environment because there is so much conditioning to see the artifacts for what they are named. Sidewalks, buildings, and tools are more faithful to mental schema than the chaos outside of these schema. But whether you perceive nature in people and cityscapes or nature in "nature", the fact is that the composition of lines, shades, and symbols into "museum" art is an abstraction of the real thing. The paint itself is nature, but doesn't this become disguised within the order on the canvas the artist's mind created? To me it seems like art too often disguises the real WOW like printed words on a page disguise the white background.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,172
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Re: Making Art [Re: Epigallo]
#9028223 - 10/04/08 12:15 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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then you have to appreciate the defects in human works and aspirations, not as less than nature, not in competition with nature, but essentially nature as well.
which ties back to the original post, in which a competition or challenge is supposed, a distinction raised, and a confused premise applied.
nature makes nature, man makes art, man is of nature, and so is art, but nature does not make art except through man.
art is artifice, always just a bit imperfect, even overperfected, and nature is nature which sustains us and which we are part of - even our art is part of it as we struggle our way along.
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Epigallo
Stranger
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Re: Making Art [Re: Epigallo]
#9028275 - 10/04/08 12:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not exactly. I don't believe we are diluting or downplaying the greater beauty. I believe that we are mirroring it exactly, because we are a part of it.
If we are part of it, how can we mirror it? We can only be it. Does a statue by Michelangelo embody the same amount of intelligence as a real human body that coordinates the activities of 50 trillion cells, each containing maybe millions of atoms, into a single organized system? If you are really paying attention to what's going on, how can this possibly me an exact mirror?
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AnonymousRabbit
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:24 PM)
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Epigallo
Stranger
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
then you have to appreciate the defects in human works and aspirations, not as less than nature, not in competition with nature, but essentially nature as well.
which ties back to the original post, in which a competition or challenge is supposed, a distinction raised, and a confused premise applied.
nature makes nature, man makes art, man is of nature, and so is art, but nature does not make art except through man.
art is artifice, always just a bit imperfect, even overperfected, and nature is nature which sustains us and which we are part of - even our art is part of it as we struggle our way along.
The labeling, bifurcations, and chains of action are fine and everything, but I just don't see any real comparison. There is competition on one level of what I want to pay attention to. Then there is the competition of the accepted label as "art", as if some things are predisposed to WOWing people but not others.
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Epigallo
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Re: Making Art [Re: Epigallo]
#9028345 - 10/04/08 12:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Does a galaxy with its giant spirals embody the same amount of "intelligence" (I prefer "order") as a real universe that coordinates the activities of 50 trillion stars?
If you are comparing a painting of a galaxy to real galaxy, no. If you are comparing a galaxy to a "real" galaxy, yes, they are the same thing.
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AnonymousRabbit
Comrade
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:24 PM)
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Epigallo
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Perhaps. I'm not trying to scoff at great works of any artists and say "well, that was a dumb idea!". But there might be some cosmic joke at play. 
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AnonymousRabbit
Comrade
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 8,993
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:24 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Careful of those personalisms.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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I think one of the criteria for 'art' is intention. Nature does not intend, it's just cause and effect with different intentions other than 'to make art'.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,172
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Re: Making Art [Re: Boots]
#9031589 - 10/05/08 09:00 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Actually beauty is probably the topic
art, the human endeavor, is not always about beauty, though that quest is usually involved.
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Epigallo
Stranger
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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yeah, beauty is probably the topic.
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