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OfflineFelinor
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is the need to find yourself fake?
    #8996612 - 09/28/08 01:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

is it simply the human need to find something more? find something more in yourself? I've spend the last year or so really trying to find myself and who i am? is this quest pointless or simply non existant? Just seeking opinions.


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The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else! ~Friedrich Nietzsche

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #8996712 - 09/28/08 02:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

After some reflection, I find myself disagreeing with Socrates.

It's the examined life that isn't worth living.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineFelinor
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: deCypher]
    #8996764 - 09/28/08 03:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
After some reflection, I find myself disagreeing with Socrates.

It's the examined life that isn't worth living.




Woaah, That last part was deep. I might have to qoute you on that sometime.


--------------------
The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else! ~Friedrich Nietzsche

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: deCypher]
    #8996783 - 09/28/08 03:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

There's a lot of stuff going on in my head that I just don't know what to do with as of yet. :shrug:

"Finding yourself" should be an ongoing endeavor as far as I can tell. Otherwise you're just a robot.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (09/28/08 03:19 AM)

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Offlinefigmentfragment
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8996860 - 09/28/08 03:57 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I don't understand what would make it "fake"...

Finding "yourself" can be fun.

You're bound to either find it, or improvise on the way.

I reiterate. Have fun with it, either way. :shrug:


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

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OfflineFelinor
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8996882 - 09/28/08 04:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

What I mean is, I am already myself, so why do I continue looking for myself? Why do people look for something they already have? Its like trying to find a needle... in a pile of needles.. and not finding it.


--------------------
The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else! ~Friedrich Nietzsche

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Offlinefigmentfragment
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #8996885 - 09/28/08 04:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

yes...this is true.

So to me this leads me to the conclusion that what you are seeking, is what you desire to be.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

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Offlinegc1966
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8996967 - 09/28/08 05:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Felinor said:
is it simply the human need to find something more? find something more in yourself? I've spend the last year or so really trying to find myself and who i am? is this quest pointless or simply non existant? Just seeking opinions.




I can feel you my little shoomerite,try looking to help people less fortunate than yourself, this will give you pleasure, purpose and happiness, and try not to become too self absorbed or self indulgent by reflecting on your purpose in life, your identity or your social interactions. Just be aware that you have tasted the eternal turnip, and this experience in itself makes you unique and special, there will be a place for you in the next realm my friend.


--------------------
The strangest life I've ever known

Edited by gc1966 (09/28/08 05:33 AM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #8997185 - 09/28/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Felinor said:
is it simply the human need to find something more? find something more in yourself? I've spend the last year or so really trying to find myself and who i am? is this quest pointless or simply non existant? Just seeking opinions.




It is more accurate and beneficial IMO to find out what you are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedrwatson
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #8997362 - 09/28/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

From the Reluctant Messiah:
"The simplest questions are the most profound. Where were you born? Where is your home? Where are you going? Think about this once in a while and watch your answers change."

Everything is in a constant state of motion and change so when you 'find yourself' hopefully you don't stop progressing as an individual. 

i asked myself this question once and was faced with the realization that everything changes.  my self of 10 years ago probably wouldn't get along with my self of today.

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Offlineburgatory
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: drwatson]
    #8998481 - 09/28/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"What you need you are" is a good way to put it.

We all have dreams, but these come and go with consciousness and situation changes, but there is one dream that stays constant for the duration of your existence, and that's the dream of Yourself.


--------------------

Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

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OfflineFelinor
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8999238 - 09/28/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

figmentfragment said:
yes...this is true.

So to me this leads me to the conclusion that what you are seeking, is what you desire to be.




very logical. makes alot of sense to me anyway. Everyone had good answers, im surprised.


--------------------
The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else! ~Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineWaking_Eyes
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #8999488 - 09/28/08 07:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

If the need is real to you then it is real.

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #8999553 - 09/28/08 07:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Felinor said:
What I mean is, I am already myself, so why do I continue looking for myself? Why do people look for something they already have? Its like trying to find a needle... in a pile of needles.. and not finding it.




with the constant flow of conditioned thoughts it's hard to recognize what lies before all of that.  so finding oneself could mean projecting into the future, or development of mindfulness through self-reflection... it depends how you look at it.  after 1 hour of meditation i do find (or discover) new aspects of self and experience.

Edited by SyntheticMInd (09/28/08 07:27 PM)

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OfflineLimus
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9001040 - 09/29/08 01:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

figmentfragment said:
So to me this leads me to the conclusion that what you are seeking, is what you desire to be.




I think it can be deeper than that... I'm sure everyone is familiar with the sensation where you find yourself reacting to a situation a certain way but have no idea why you're reacting that way. The better you get to know yourself, the more you understand about why you behave the way you do, and the more you can predict how you'll feel in a certain situation.

I think it's useful to remember that each person is composed of two decision making entities...the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. The unconscious mind has been evolving ever since life first appeared, whereas the conscious mind is a relative newcomer to the scene. The result is that the unconscious mind is much stronger than we realise.

My favourite metaphor is that the conscious controlling the unconscious is like a human riding on the back of an elephant. The rider is in control most of the time, but if the elephant and the rider disagree on where to go, the rider can't force the elephant to do what he says. The only option is to try to learn how the elephant behaves, anticipate its behaviour and try to work with the elephant, rather than fight it all the time. That process is what I think of when people talk about finding themselves.

Having said that, i agree that it's an ongoing process and there's not a lot you can do to speed it up. Like everything else in life the greatest revelations come when you're thinking about something completely different. My advice would be just try to enjoy life and be open to realisations when they occur. It's only when you think you know everything that you'll stop learning.

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Offlineburgatory
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Limus]
    #9001100 - 09/29/08 02:00 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"Yourself" isn't a gut feeling, emotion, perception or any kind of definable entity, it is the ONLY thing that can ever be clear to you, so that when it is clear you KNOW it is clear, and that it is Yourself.

"I am already myself" is a bad snag for yourself, first - the personality keeps developing throughout existence, second - "Yourself" is the full acceptance and realisation of the exact structure of your personality as it is at this moment - it is hardwired.

If you think you know yourself, ask this question - What am I missing? What is it? An ectasy... an emotional range... a clarity... if you feel ANYTHING is missing, you are not Yourself, and must continue the search.


--------------------

Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

Edited by burgatory (09/29/08 02:02 AM)

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Limus]
    #9001101 - 09/29/08 02:01 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Limus said:
Having said that, i agree that it's an ongoing process and there's not a lot you can do to speed it up.




the "dark room" has helped others speed this process up, quite drastically from what i've read.  this was an ancient taoist practice, and an initiation for ancient shamans.  they would go into caves and live in darkness for long periods of time.  supposed to be quite transformative and visionary.

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OfflineLimus
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: burgatory]
    #9001161 - 09/29/08 02:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

burgatory said:
...it is the ONLY thing that can ever be clear to you, so that when it is clear you KNOW it is clear, and that it is Yourself.




I don't agree with that at all... There have been times in the past when I've thought I've known something about myself only to realise later that I was wrong. After that realisation, I felt that this time I really knew what the deal was, only to realise that once again I was wrong. Now I feel like I really, really KNOW what the deal is, but that doesn't mean I won't turn round in 5 years and realise that i'm still slightly off target.

Whenever you realise anything for the first time, it always feels like this time you know absolutely that you are right. Sadly sometimes this confidence is misplaced.

In a sense, uncertainty is the only absolute certainty in life

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OfflineLimus
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: deranger]
    #9001176 - 09/29/08 02:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:

Limus said:
Having said that, i agree that it's an ongoing process and there's not a lot you can do to speed it up.




the "dark room" has helped others speed this process up, quite drastically from what i've read.  this was an ancient taoist practice, and an initiation for ancient shamans.  they would go into caves and live in darkness for long periods of time.  supposed to be quite transformative and visionary.




I'll buy that. I've heard similar things about the 10 day vipassana meditation course and also about traditional medicinal ayahuasca rituals.

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Offlinerastafiedhippie
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: drwatson]
    #9001544 - 09/29/08 07:50 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

drwatson said:
From the Reluctant Messiah:

Everything is in a constant state of motion and change so when you 'find yourself' hopefully you don't stop progressing as an individual. 





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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Felinor]
    #9002120 - 09/29/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Felinor said:
is it simply the human need to find something more? find something more in yourself? I've spend the last year or so really trying to find myself and who i am? is this quest pointless or simply non existant? Just seeking opinions.




It IS the need to find something more, usually when the question 'who am i?' naturally comes by itself its due to seeing that all these objects that you have identified yourself with are a limitation on what you naturally are, so an inner urge for freedom truth & identity come about, to find peace & to find some consistency in this turbulent existence.

The best advice from my experience is that asking yourself sincerely who you really are is the most important question any being can contemplate because you dig deep into your originality, you start to break through all these ideas you have believed about yourself, you start to see past 'you' & start to see life as it really is, not as you thought it was.

But also don't feel disapointed if you can't find out who you really are, just remember any idea you have about yourself is a limitiation on yourself, so no idea belief or conclusion you come to can really be you.

But this doesnt mean that looking at who you are is useless at all, its the most beautiful thing that can happen to you, this question has come to you as an evolutionary process & it is the most fantastic thing you will go through in this life if you really investigate & just sit silently with the question "who am i?" & keep looking deeper into yourself...

Have fun!!! :psychsplit:


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Chronic7]
    #9002139 - 09/29/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

this question has come to you as an evolutionary process

Not true. Read up on evolution.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Icelander]
    #9002298 - 09/29/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

So your saying thoughts & mans inquisitive nature have nothing to do with evolution?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Chronic7]
    #9003904 - 09/29/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No I didn't say that. Think.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: rastafiedhippie]
    #9003915 - 09/29/08 05:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

How would you know the needs of your self, until you had found your self?

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Offlineojosrojos
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9004561 - 09/29/08 07:29 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I think finding yourself is a tough term to grasp. I mean you are made up of numerous thoughts, experiences, and such. For me it has a been a long process of self-searching to find out what makes me tick.

To me "finding yourself" is finally reaching a point where you can be comfortable with who "you" are. Once that point was reached I found I made huge progress. I mean you can sit and contemplate your navel only to reach one conundrum after another.

But to answer the question, NO, it is not fake to "find yourself". Without "you" we wouldn't be here having this conversation, I'm enjoying it, so obviously your "finding yourself" is not only helping you but it is also helping us. Yeah? I dunno just a thought...

Keep up the journey

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: ojosrojos]
    #9007051 - 09/30/08 07:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

To me "finding yourself" is finally reaching a point where you can be comfortable with who "you" are

Way to go dude.:thumbup: You have put, IMO, into one sentence the highest state one can reach as a human being. Maybe there's more but I haven't found it yet. (I'm still looking)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Icelander]
    #9007208 - 09/30/08 08:59 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

We exist as a body, mind, and spirit.

I believe that well-balanced people have discovered and interacted with all of these selves.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9007284 - 09/30/08 09:31 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

How would you differentiate between the body (including the cognitive functions of the brain) and the "mind" and "spirit"? IMO, this is an artificial division of a holistic entity.

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Veritas]
    #9007358 - 09/30/08 09:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I believe that the body, mind, and spirit interact with eachother, according to their respective roles.

The individuality of these unique parts is not artificial However, their separation from one another is.

I believe that the body deals with bodily things, that the mind deals with mental things, and that the spirit deals with spiritual things. However, every part perceives the influence of the other parts.

For instance, I believe the body is capable of discerning, through physical sensation, a mental or spiritual influence upon the body, etc.

By deduction of thought, your mind is capable of determining whether your mental outlook has been determined by factors of illness or health affecting your body.

You could calculate, mentally whether you had committed a spiritual wrong, and this may affect the direction of your thoughts.

In this way, the body, mind, and spirit are separate but interact with one another.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9007367 - 09/30/08 10:01 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Why is the "mind" a different function than the cognition performed by the body?  Same question for the "spirit."  We comprehend the world by processing sensual input.  I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual influence" being perceived through the senses.  If something is "spiritual," it would be non-physical.  The senses perceive the physical.

What is a "spiritual wrong"?  Are you talking about morality, which humans invented through their physical brains?

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Veritas]
    #9007542 - 09/30/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Why is the "mind" a different function than the cognition performed by the body?



The body registers change without comprehending the meaning of it.

For instance, you might feel your hand getting pricked by a thorn and retract it, reflexively, without advance planning or calculation.

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual influence" being perceived through the senses.



Has the hair ever stood up on the back of your neck?

I bet you have a physical feeling in your belly, which you mentally associate with guilt, but what does your belly "know?"

Have you ever felt a somatic high, when doing something kind? Yet, what do your glands "know?"

In the spiritual sense of the word, what does your belly "intuit?" What do your glands "intuit?"

Quote:

Same question for the "spirit."



The spirit intuits. It intuits that a thought or action is morally "loving" or "hateful."

The mind calculates. For instance, you "know" whether your will adds to (or subtracts from) the will of others.

Here, you can see the difference between physical sensation, mental calculation, and spiritual intuition.

These are separate entities, which work together.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9007574 - 09/30/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Everything you've just described is an established function of the physical brain & nervous system.  :shrug:  Why the unnecessary elaboration?

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Veritas]
    #9007580 - 09/30/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Clearly you, ma'am, lack spiritual intuition.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: deCypher]
    #9007586 - 09/30/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

As do we all, IMO.  :shrug:

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Veritas]
    #9007946 - 09/30/08 12:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Everything you've just described is an established function of the physical brain & nervous system.  :shrug:  Why the unnecessary elaboration?




In which portion of the brain is the conscience located? Since the answer to this question is not established, you're making a statement of faith. Why?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9007957 - 09/30/08 12:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I believe

And I believe something else. Beliefs are cheap and easy. But providing evidence to support your beliefs is hard.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9008029 - 09/30/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It is a statement of faith to say that measurable brain activity during thoughts which relate to one's "conscience" indicates that it is a cognitive function?  :lol:

When I chew my food, the muscles of my jaw are active.  If they do not or cannot engage, the chewing will not occur.  If my brain does not signal those muscles to engage, they will not do so.  If I call the function of chewing "flim flam," and then ask you to point out where in the brain I might locate "flim flam," have I proved that the brain is not responsible for chewing?

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Veritas]
    #9008067 - 09/30/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It is a statement of faith to say that measurable brain activity during thoughts which relate to one's "conscience" indicates that it is a cognitive function?



Is the measurable stomach-upset of nervous people a cognitive function?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9008076 - 09/30/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yes.  Our emotions impact our central nervous system & vice versa.  The central nervous system activates the peripheral nervous system, resulting in physical symptoms of emotional states.

The cognitive state of nervousness is communicated to the body & results in the Fight-or-Flight response. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_nervous_system

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Veritas]
    #9008184 - 09/30/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

If there is no tangible cause for the nervousness, how can the emotion be considered rational? The need for it was not calculated.

This quibbling about external minutia doesn't even answer the root cause of your disagreement with me. You believe that there is no such thing as "spirit," correct?

If that is the case...
How would your opinion of unfathomable absolutes be any less religious than mine?

It occurs to me that we both agree on the same, self-evident, material data. We only have different interpretations of it.

Edited by durian_2008 (09/30/08 01:06 PM)

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9008385 - 09/30/08 01:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
It occurs to me that we both agree on the same, self-evident, material data. We only have different interpretations of it.




Why bother dragging in an unverifiable concept such as spirit when the material explanation of it (the brain and nervous system) suffices?  Pragmatism for the win.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: deCypher]
    #9008496 - 09/30/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Icelander]
    #9008537 - 09/30/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Why is the "mind" a different function than the cognition performed by the body?  Same question for the "spirit."  We comprehend the world by processing sensual input.  I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual influence" being perceived through the senses.  If something is "spiritual," it would be non-physical.  The senses perceive the physical.

What is a "spiritual wrong"?  Are you talking about morality, which humans invented through their physical brains?




:thumbup:

But why is the spiritul presumed as non-physical?

Quote:

I believe

And I believe something else. Beliefs are cheap and easy. But providing evidence to support your beliefs is hard.




Providing evidence for almost any belief can be relatively easy if one studies the appropriate topics and or reads the right books.
(which one then regurgitates relentlessly.)

Quote:

If there is no tangible cause for the nervousness, how can the emotion be considered rational? The need for it was not calculated.




IMO the cause may not be overtly "tangible", but everything you think and feel is a process triggered by established pathways.
The route A - B may not be obvious. And it may occur faster than one can consciously observe. But this process does happen, generally through association to previous situations.

Rationality is another concept.


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Goodbye Shroomery.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9008582 - 09/30/08 02:29 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Rationality and cognition are not the same thing.  All activity of the brain is cognition.  Emotions are not rational, they are reactive.  We do not necessarily decide "I'm very nervous" and become nervous.  We may perceive (cognition) what we interpret (cognition) as a threat, and react emotionally. 

If you will provide some reason why the explanation of "spirit" is required to understand the phenomenon of human experience, perhaps I can respond to your interpretation of the self-evident material data.

It requires no faith to opt for the most elegant explanation of available data, and the concept of 'spirit' is quite inelegant.

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9008589 - 09/30/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

But why is the spiritul presumed as non-physical?

Quote:

Spiritual: Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material.




If it were physical, it would not be spiritual, and vice-versa.  :shrug:

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9008938 - 09/30/08 03:43 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Providing evidence for almost any belief can be relatively easy if one studies the appropriate topics and or reads the right books.
(which one then regurgitates relentlessly.)


Depends on what one calls evidence. If you aren't a discerning person that would be very true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: Icelander]
    #9008981 - 09/30/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If you aren't a discerning person that would be very true.




***GENERALIZED PERSONALISM ALERT!***


--------------------

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9016352 - 10/01/08 11:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I think self-importance is the killer in any venture in solitude.

Edited by burgatory (10/01/08 11:40 PM)

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: burgatory]
    #9016949 - 10/02/08 03:17 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

the only finding myself i'm familiar with is when external sensory information blocks out (or rather, dampens) awareness of my thoughts/feelings/body sensation.  Then do my best to listen closely to myself so i don't get overwhelmed.

shrug?


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #9031794 - 10/05/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If it were physical, it would not be spiritual, and vice-versa




In one example, spirit matter has been conceptualized as rarefied, mental matter, and that has been conceptualized as rarefied, physical matter. In a spectrum of intelligence, all "frequencies" of matter are said to effect one another to different degrees, in a continuum of feedback.

Again, whether or not any of my evidence "proves" anything to you personally is a matter of prejudice. I am not here to offer you any unique, sensory information, which "makes" you believe me.

Quote:

Why bother dragging in an unverifiable concept such as spirit when the material explanation of it (the brain and nervous system) suffices? 




I thought I was posting in a forum about spirituality.

You're assuming that physiology suffices for me and that spirituality is unverifiable for you.

What's the purpose behind coming to a forum such as this, to make claims such as those?

Moreover, whose sensibilities are served when someone with a fixed opinion moderates a debate?

Broadly speaking, the above is a simple enough illustration of how someone could lose himself...

But, I used to have a colorblind friend who became dismayed when I said that something was orange. Why bother dragging in an unverifiable concept such as orange, he said.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: is the need to find yourself fake? [Re: durian_2008]
    #9032433 - 10/05/08 01:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Quote:

Why bother dragging in an unverifiable concept such as spirit when the material explanation of it (the brain and nervous system) suffices? 




I thought I was posting in a forum about spirituality.

You're assuming that physiology suffices for me and that spirituality is unverifiable for you.

What's the purpose behind coming to a forum such as this, to make claims such as those?

Moreover, whose sensibilities are served when someone with a fixed opinion moderates a debate?

Broadly speaking, the above is a simple enough illustration of how someone could lose himself...

But, I used to have a colorblind friend who became dismayed when I said that something was orange. Why bother dragging in an unverifiable concept such as orange, he said.




This forum is about both spirituality and philosophy--thus it offers an oppportunity for atheists to debate theists, believers in mind to argue with believers in brain, and skeptics to argue with monotheists.

I presented an assertion (namely that spirit does not exit), and if you wish to counter this with your own debate, you're perfectly free to do so.  No-one's stopping you from presenting the alternative viewpoint, and in fact I would welcome any dissenting opinions.

I do like your color-blind analogy, though... is your friend a behaviorist?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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