Home | Community | Message Board

Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck, Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Offlinefigmentfragment
leaving shroomery

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Belief [Re: deCypher]
    #8988151 - 09/26/08 03:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

An idea people repeatedly fail to acknowledge, is that belief enough to achieve does not entail one brief vague thought smeared across the surface of a vast network of fear and doubt.

People joke, "I believe I can fly..."

Well, can anyone say they 100% believed it?

I do not believe 100%, the accuracy of that idea though...:uptosomething:


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Belief [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8988707 - 09/26/08 09:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

This is correct.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleArden
לנשום


Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,666
Loc: Α & Ω Flag
Re: Belief [Re: Icelander]
    #8988748 - 09/26/08 09:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Belief and mental imagery can have real effects on phenomena seemingly disconnected from the mind. There have been a few studies, for example, that prove imagining oneself to be growing physically stronger not only enhances performances, but increases muscle development and hormone fluctuations (as opposed to control group).

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Belief [Re: Arden]
    #8988764 - 09/26/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

How is the body disconnected from the mind?  :confused:

Of course the mind has influence over the body, but this does not indicate that it also has influence over the rest of the world.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleaxis_bal
Stranger
Male

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 196
Re: Belief [Re: deCypher]
    #8988813 - 09/26/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:

If given the choice to alter your belief structure (via chemical intervention or sophisticated hypnotic programming), would you change your knowledge that you're going to die in order to remain blissfully happy? What if you had the choice to become a religious believer, content in their faith and assured in Nirvana upon their demise?

(forgive my semi-drunken ramblings)




I find your view of religion to be flawed. I think it would be easier to be an atheist and believe there is no afterlife. Christians live in fear of going to hell, Buddhists can be re-incarnated into hellish realms. No religion I know of assures nirvana upon demise. The only thing I fear is the pain right before death.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleArden
לנשום


Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,666
Loc: Α & Ω Flag
Re: Belief [Re: axis_bal]
    #8988873 - 09/26/08 10:15 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

How is the body disconnected from the mind?  :confused:




I meant that sheer intention is disconnected from your tricepts. Of course there is a strong connection between body and mind, with many people agreeing that body is mind. I meant only that desire can influence a goal without tangible operation, such as exercise in this case. 

Quote:


Of course the mind has influence over the body, but this does not indicate that it also has influence over the rest of the world.




If the change begins in your mind, e.g. a deliberate and continuous perspective that everything is good and positive, and it has a real effect such as the change you exert on your environment vis-a-vis your behavior, is this not a case where the mind has an influence "over the rest of the world"?

I am not trying to be too vague and leaving room for the Butterfly Effect. I am speaking practically.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Belief [Re: axis_bal]
    #8988923 - 09/26/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

axis_bal said:
Quote:

The Cypher said:

If given the choice to alter your belief structure (via chemical intervention or sophisticated hypnotic programming), would you change your knowledge that you're going to die in order to remain blissfully happy? What if you had the choice to become a religious believer, content in their faith and assured in Nirvana upon their demise?

(forgive my semi-drunken ramblings)




I find your view of religion to be flawed. I think it would be easier to be an atheist and believe there is no afterlife. Christians live in fear of going to hell, Buddhists can be re-incarnated into hellish realms. No religion I know of assures nirvana upon demise. The only thing I fear is the pain right before death.




Yes, but the vast majority of believers don't truly believe that they're going to Hell when they die.  Most people consider themselves to be among the good and the saved.  (After all, if you knew you were going to Hell, and could do nothing to change this, why not live it up and sin non-stop until then?)


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Belief [Re: Arden]
    #8988930 - 09/26/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Weren't the participants also exercising in that study?  I recall that the difference was between the control group, who exercised without visualization, and the participants who added visualization to their workouts.

The only way to claim that the mind, by itself, has an influence over external events would be to refrain from actions related to one's thoughts.  Certainly actions performed within the external world will have some degree of impact upon the external world.  Unless we controlled for this variable, we could not accurately assess the effect of the mind upon the external world.

The mind influences the individual, and the individual may influence other individuals/events/objects.  If I am very angry, and I choose to withdraw & spend time relaxing and meditating, does my anger have the same influence over external objects as someone who chooses to act out their anger by punching a wall?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Belief [Re: Veritas]
    #8988991 - 09/26/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I could have sworn I've read a study where simply visualizing working out the pinky finger was sufficient to induce some improvement as compared to the control that neither exercised the pinky finger nor visualized it.

The benefit wasn't as impressive as those that did both, but it was still there as far as I can recall.

And perhaps your subjective beliefs might have no influence over external events from an objective standpoint, but since your subjective standpoint is all you'll ever have anyway, I'd predict some change is possible in this direction.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Belief [Re: deCypher]
    #8989000 - 09/26/08 10:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, I remember the pinky study.  They were able to establish that the results were due to increased neural connections related to activating those muscles.  Essentially, the muscles were not torn & rebuilt, the way that strength-training does, so they did not increase in size.  The brain simply became more efficient at activating the muscles fully.

I've found that exercises which require mental focus are much more effective than those which may be performed on "automatic pilot." 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck, Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Belief in God's existence *DELETED*
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Marko121212 3,966 63 11/28/05 09:58 AM
by justAkid
* can you prove the existence of absolute, objective morality?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Anonymous 21,763 157 12/21/04 06:31 AM
by deafpanda
* Rationality, Objectivity and Logic
( 1 2 3 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 6,624 45 10/15/05 11:19 AM
by BlueCoyote
* Terence McKenna's beliefs about time-telescoping
( 1 2 3 all )
question_for_joo 5,761 44 07/25/05 03:46 AM
by alsey
* An Aristotelian Foundation for Objectivity SkorpivoMusterion 1,454 8 04/22/06 05:40 AM
by fresh313
* Karma = objective morality
( 1 2 all )
deafpanda 4,416 30 01/12/05 12:46 AM
by fresh313
* This Is Your Brain on God - Michael Persinger has a vision - the Almighty isn't dead, he's an energy Divinorum 1,685 3 09/23/09 08:48 PM
by explosiveoxygen
* Unproven Beliefs Silversoul 2,159 15 02/16/05 10:11 AM
by moog

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,265 topic views. 0 members, 11 guests and 31 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.