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figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc:
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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An idea people repeatedly fail to acknowledge, is that belief enough to achieve does not entail one brief vague thought smeared across the surface of a vast network of fear and doubt.
People joke, "I believe I can fly..."
Well, can anyone say they 100% believed it?
I do not believe 100%, the accuracy of that idea though...
-------------------- Goodbye Shroomery.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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This is correct.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Arden
לנשום
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,666
Loc: Α & Ω
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Belief and mental imagery can have real effects on phenomena seemingly disconnected from the mind. There have been a few studies, for example, that prove imagining oneself to be growing physically stronger not only enhances performances, but increases muscle development and hormone fluctuations (as opposed to control group).
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Belief [Re: Arden]
#8988764 - 09/26/08 09:48 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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How is the body disconnected from the mind? Of course the mind has influence over the body, but this does not indicate that it also has influence over the rest of the world.
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axis_bal
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 196
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Quote:
The Cypher said:
If given the choice to alter your belief structure (via chemical intervention or sophisticated hypnotic programming), would you change your knowledge that you're going to die in order to remain blissfully happy? What if you had the choice to become a religious believer, content in their faith and assured in Nirvana upon their demise?
(forgive my semi-drunken ramblings)
I find your view of religion to be flawed. I think it would be easier to be an atheist and believe there is no afterlife. Christians live in fear of going to hell, Buddhists can be re-incarnated into hellish realms. No religion I know of assures nirvana upon demise. The only thing I fear is the pain right before death.
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Arden
לנשום
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,666
Loc: Α & Ω
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Quote:
How is the body disconnected from the mind?
I meant that sheer intention is disconnected from your tricepts. Of course there is a strong connection between body and mind, with many people agreeing that body is mind. I meant only that desire can influence a goal without tangible operation, such as exercise in this case.
Quote:
Of course the mind has influence over the body, but this does not indicate that it also has influence over the rest of the world.
If the change begins in your mind, e.g. a deliberate and continuous perspective that everything is good and positive, and it has a real effect such as the change you exert on your environment vis-a-vis your behavior, is this not a case where the mind has an influence "over the rest of the world"?
I am not trying to be too vague and leaving room for the Butterfly Effect. I am speaking practically.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
axis_bal said:
Quote:
The Cypher said:
If given the choice to alter your belief structure (via chemical intervention or sophisticated hypnotic programming), would you change your knowledge that you're going to die in order to remain blissfully happy? What if you had the choice to become a religious believer, content in their faith and assured in Nirvana upon their demise?
(forgive my semi-drunken ramblings)
I find your view of religion to be flawed. I think it would be easier to be an atheist and believe there is no afterlife. Christians live in fear of going to hell, Buddhists can be re-incarnated into hellish realms. No religion I know of assures nirvana upon demise. The only thing I fear is the pain right before death.
Yes, but the vast majority of believers don't truly believe that they're going to Hell when they die. Most people consider themselves to be among the good and the saved. (After all, if you knew you were going to Hell, and could do nothing to change this, why not live it up and sin non-stop until then?)
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Belief [Re: Arden]
#8988930 - 09/26/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Weren't the participants also exercising in that study? I recall that the difference was between the control group, who exercised without visualization, and the participants who added visualization to their workouts.
The only way to claim that the mind, by itself, has an influence over external events would be to refrain from actions related to one's thoughts. Certainly actions performed within the external world will have some degree of impact upon the external world. Unless we controlled for this variable, we could not accurately assess the effect of the mind upon the external world.
The mind influences the individual, and the individual may influence other individuals/events/objects. If I am very angry, and I choose to withdraw & spend time relaxing and meditating, does my anger have the same influence over external objects as someone who chooses to act out their anger by punching a wall?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Belief [Re: Veritas]
#8988991 - 09/26/08 10:49 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I could have sworn I've read a study where simply visualizing working out the pinky finger was sufficient to induce some improvement as compared to the control that neither exercised the pinky finger nor visualized it.
The benefit wasn't as impressive as those that did both, but it was still there as far as I can recall.
And perhaps your subjective beliefs might have no influence over external events from an objective standpoint, but since your subjective standpoint is all you'll ever have anyway, I'd predict some change is possible in this direction.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Yes, I remember the pinky study. They were able to establish that the results were due to increased neural connections related to activating those muscles. Essentially, the muscles were not torn & rebuilt, the way that strength-training does, so they did not increase in size. The brain simply became more efficient at activating the muscles fully.
I've found that exercises which require mental focus are much more effective than those which may be performed on "automatic pilot."
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