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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Attachment & fear run deep
    #8948531 - 09/18/08 09:53 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yesterday i had a day off work so sat outside in my garden, i found myself thinking about attachments & death.

Deeply contemplating this i suddenly came to a point where i realized that when we die everything has to be let go of, EVERYTHING.

This made me feel such an intense pain & tears started running down my face, it showed me how strong & deep the identity/attachment with this body is & how we all live in constant fear of death, running away from our true selves by identifying with & trying to satisfy these hungry egos which can never be fulfilled.

I deeply saw how attached we as beings are to objects & to let go of them is something that happens naturally, not forcefully, its like our identity ideas & beliefs thin out into the absolute. This happens when the desire for truth of the objects of the universe far outcrys the desire for satisfaction through the objects themselves.

It hurts so much to see all the beings attaching to objects that ultimately will only bring them pain, as they all will pass & be torn from our attaching arms. Trying to hold onto the objects which appear in space is like trying to hold onto space itself, its impossible. So just free yourself by opening up & letting go...

Leave behind all these objects, find out who you really are beyond material existence, go deeper into your mind then is casually done, dont be a sheep & follow the crowds beliefs or find out the truth from a book, question yourself most of all, even your thoughts, find out for yourself what this is all about, it all depends on you, only you can bring yourself to the end of this journey we call life...its all inside you.

Like i said the letting go of attachments happens naturally by itself so you may not be at a stage where you can let go of attachments, but if you feel these words speaking to you & above all you really want peace & freedom in your life then in your heart fully assimilate what im trying to convey here...

:peace:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,008
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948544 - 09/18/08 09:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

this may or may not be the fruit of a day's worth of meditation attachment and death.

probe deeper,
so far I think this looks lije regurgitation of dharma and not yet insight.

i can think of worse things to regurgitate, but insight is different than flag waving.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8948559 - 09/18/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i dont understand, what have i regurgitated?

everything i talk about comes form my own insight i dont read books anymore tbh becuase you can only teach yourself from your own inner direct experience & live from that, knowledge from books just washes away with time...


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Edited by Veritas (09/18/08 10:10 AM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8948566 - 09/18/08 10:04 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I always wear my death lapel pin. :yesnod:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948594 - 09/18/08 10:10 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

partially digested stuff you read 4 years ago then,
as I said
I could think of much worse things to regurgitate

BTW, attachment is just linkage.
there is no mind fabric without linkages
try to take another day off to dwell on the fabric of mind

death and fear need no further consideration until you understand mind.

one thing at a time


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948602 - 09/18/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It just sounds that you're attached by the idea of non-attachment. :shrug:
The truth is that we don't know if we are more than the physical selves, or if it is just some sort of wishful thinking to assure us that we will keep existing after death.


Quote:

Deeply contemplating this i suddenly came to a point where i realized that when we die everything has to be let go of, EVERYTHING.




No, death happens anyways. Even if we let go or not. I have never heard of a case where death decided to leave a person live because they were unable to let go. :lol:

I agree with you that a happier life is one without attachments, but I wouldn't say that we only reached our true selves when we did that. We're our true selves all the time, even when our choice is to feel shitty and inflict suffering upon ourselves. Just be careful not to go the other extreme which is nothing more than a form of escapism. :wink:

Quote:

Leave behind all these objects, find out who you really are beyond material existence, go deeper into your mind then is casually done, dont be a sheep & follow the crowds beliefs or find out the truth from a book, find out for yourself what this is all about, it all depends on you, only you can bring yourself to the end of this journey we call life...like i said the letting go of attachments happens naturally by itself so you may not be at a stage where you can let go of attachments, but if you feel these words speaking to you & above all you really want peace & freedom in your life then really assimilate what im trying to convey here...




This is even more proof of non-acceptance coming from your side.
We are what we are and each of us have our own rhythm. This is where you are in your life right now. Other people are somewhere else.
Can you honestly give this advice as being the only valid one to everybody?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8948626 - 09/18/08 10:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

you dont seem to grasp that i havent regurgitated anything... yes its all been said a million times before i dont disagree on that point, but to say im regurgitating & not speaking from my own direct experience is quite dissapointing to be honest, i suppose i was sitting alone when all this hit me so theres not much point in me trying to proove it to you that it was from my own direct insight...

Im not sure why but i feel let down by you to say something like that to me :shrug:

Unexpected  :lol:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948652 - 09/18/08 10:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps regurgitating is necessary in order to apply what we've read & partially understood to our current, direct experience.  Like a cow chewing her cud, we may derive greater nourishment from these ideas through rumination.

This is not to say that insight is not also occurring while we chew, but rather to describe a collaborative process of turning information into wisdom.

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8948655 - 09/18/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:


Quote:

Leave behind all these objects, find out who you really are beyond material existence, go deeper into your mind then is casually done, dont be a sheep & follow the crowds beliefs or find out the truth from a book, find out for yourself what this is all about, it all depends on you, only you can bring yourself to the end of this journey we call life...like i said the letting go of attachments happens naturally by itself so you may not be at a stage where you can let go of attachments, but if you feel these words speaking to you & above all you really want peace & freedom in your life then really assimilate what im trying to convey here...




This is even more proof of non-acceptance coming from your side.
We are what we are and each of us have our own rhythm. This is where you are in your life right now. Other people are somewhere else.
Can you honestly give this advice as being the only valid one to everybody?





Uuum....thats why i said "like i said the letting go of attachments happens naturally by itself so you may not be at a stage where you can let go of attachments...."

I agree with what you say but you seem to come to conclusions quite prematurely "this is proof of..." when this realization really deeply helped me & by me passing it on only trying to help another being, (even if only one who reads this) is not proof of my non-acceptance :shrug:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,008
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948679 - 09/18/08 10:33 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

where are the attachments?
how does letting go of attachments occur?

(in that order please)


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8948691 - 09/18/08 10:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
where are the attachments?
how does letting go of attachments occur?

(in that order please)




Thankyou :smile:

I would say the most direct route to detachment is find out who is attached, but yesterday i have to say attachment was there & i felt the pain that comes along with the attachment, which is a kind of lesson in itself, to feel the suffering that comes with identity.

Dont get me wrong RG i totally agree with you, i was just making a post about what i went through yesterday because i felt to, it wasn't plagiarism outof a book which just really struck me as i wouldnt do such an ignorant thing, the only truth is in the experience itself not the words.

:peace:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948712 - 09/18/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I agree with what you say but you seem to come to conclusions quite prematurely "this is proof of..." when this realization really deeply helped me & by me passing it on only trying to help another being, (even if only one who reads this) is not proof of my non-acceptance :shrug:




I am trying to point out that your post can easily be a poof of strong attachment to the idea of non attachment.
If it isn't so, then why should it bother you anyways? Just accept it and take it as another point of view. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Veritas]
    #8948734 - 09/18/08 10:51 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Perhaps regurgitating is necessary in order to apply what we've read & partially understood to our current, direct experience.  Like a cow chewing her cud, we may derive greater nourishment from these ideas through rumination.

This is not to say that insight is not also occurring while we chew, but rather to describe a collaborative process of turning information into wisdom.




I agree in the sense that mind is cyclical in nature (as is everything casually observable in the universe), so in order for new information & ideas to be fully embibed in the being they may have to be repeated/regurgitated, but i also agree with regreen when he says that it has to be insight not regurgitation because insight is like breaking the cycles open wider, its like an explosion with direct experience.

Regurgitation (imo) implies stagnant repetition, which is why i took such offense to redgreens statement, because what i felt was insight not something id rehearsed from a book until it became true.

This makes me think of the indians with theyre mantras, its like they repeat something until it becomes an actuality for them, for what they are actually trying to acheive i dont think its a good way to achieve it, because its almost tricking the mind into experiencing divinity instead of directly realizing the oneness with that divinity itself.
Although i dont know much about mantras so should keep quiet really....

:peace:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948745 - 09/18/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

One of the best reasons to regurgitate is that repetition is part of the way to form long-term memories.  If we read something once, and it has little emotional impact on us at the time, we are unlikely to recall it later.  If we read it five times, tell other people about it five times, and think about it five times, we are quite likely to recall it later...particularly if we find it interesting and/or evocative.

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Veritas]
    #8948785 - 09/18/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Repetition is definately necessary for general learning/memory, i dont think theres any arguement against this? 'Practice makes perfect'

On the other side though i think detachment is more unlearning & forgetting everything  in order to experience what i would call 'pure being' or the "I Am-ness" with no I am this or that (no identity) which is really just the meditative mind with no preferences, intention or attachments & for some reason its utterly blissfull!

:peace:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948796 - 09/18/08 11:04 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

or some reason its utterly blissfull!





Probably because it provides a break in an endless stream of neurotic reactions to reality.  :grin:

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Veritas]
    #8948844 - 09/18/08 11:13 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

or some reason its utterly blissfull!





Probably because it provides a break in an endless stream of neurotic reactions to reality.  :grin:




Not to put words in your mouth but your saying the exact same thing as the hindus & buddhists, but instead of saying 'stream of neurotic reactions', they say 'stream of thoughts' or 'mind' :wink:

Theres definatly an aspect of 'break' about it because when i meditate before going to bed i go into sleep with awareness & just before deep sleep comes that same bliss is felt, and taking a break & deep sleep are pretty similar, total mental & physical rest.

To take it further i would say that bliss is our true nature & that the play of identity with mind is thinking that it finds this bliss in objects, taking these objects to be sources of its bliss, when infact it IS bliss. Im using the word bliss but its interchangeable with love compassion joy ecstacy, whatever floats your boat...

Do you see what im trying to say here, that we are what we seek, that all beings seek bliss/fulfillment but they are looking for it in the wrong place, they think that through some striving & thinking & creating relationship with objects they will find this ever lasting bliss...but its all done in vain because no transient object can bring you lasting bliss, only temporary...

Please tell me you at least see the theory in this?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8948885 - 09/18/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I understand it quite well, and have posted the same ideas sans religious overtones.  :shrug:

The mind can be our greatest ally or our worst enemy, but it will be with us so long as we are alive & not in a vegetative state.  The neurotic thinking to which I refer is how the mind may be our enemy.  Learning to think differently, whether it is through meditative practice or Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy techniques, can transform our mind into an ally.

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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Veritas]
    #8949007 - 09/18/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Yes, I understand it quite well, and have posted the same ideas sans religious overtones.  :shrug:

The mind can be our greatest ally or our worst enemy, but it will be with us so long as we are alive & not in a vegetative state.  The neurotic thinking to which I refer is how the mind may be our enemy.  Learning to think differently, whether it is through meditative practice or Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy techniques, can transform our mind into an ally.





For me it all boils down to happyness, we all seek happyness & lasting fulfillment & in the long run no object can make you truly happy as they all pass, so even if i was to end up in a 'vegitative state' like Ramana Maharshi at least i'd be happy, which is the main thing isnt it? Fulfillment?

IME the simpler the happier i am & also the simpler the more clairty & intuition is available to me, its when i get caught into the thought stream that i come into confusion...


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Attachment & fear run deep [Re: Chronic7]
    #8949236 - 09/18/08 12:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

A vegetative state is unlikely to result in happiness.  Just to clarify, Terry Schiavo is an example of someone who spent years in a persistent vegetative state.  When they autopsied her brain, it was found to have atrophied to 50% of its' original size.

I'm not familiar with Ramana Maharshi, but I doubt that he is in a vegetative state. :smile:

Perhaps we're both discussing the cultivation of equanimity?

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