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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: TM]
    #895028 - 09/20/02 06:46 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

>Why can't you admit that it's possible to get a pot to partially pressurize by
>weighing down the cover therefore raising the temperature of the contents?

Becasue if you would want to atempt this, you will need a tight seal, which deosn?t exist with a normal pot with a lid.
And If it WOULD exist, i wouldn?t recomend doing it at all, what you would be doing is constructing a makeshift pressure cooker, something that could blow your head off...


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InvisibleTM
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: Anno]
    #895033 - 09/20/02 06:49 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

You haven't been paying attention. I'm done.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Onlineblackout
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: TM]
    #895058 - 09/20/02 07:04 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

"I own a set of ReverWare and know for a fact that I can STOP the escape of steam under a rapid boil for up to 5 seconds by pressing down firmly on the lid"

5 seconds! try it for 90 mins and get back to us :wink:
i agree it will get higher than 100 if you jam the lid down. excess condensate will for a seal around the lid, but this will rapidly heat up and vapourise leaving you with a open lid once again and the pressure will be released. i cant see any manufacturer making a pot which could become a pressure vessel. most have little vents to prevent this.
a tight fitting pot will be at 100C if left on its own. if it is past this it is a pressure cooker and should be called that. a tight fitting pot is more efficient and will have less vapour loss and a denser steam inside


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Offlinecnidarium
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: blackout]
    #895154 - 09/20/02 08:22 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Sorry to beat a dead horse but I have to expliain the underlying chemical principles.

When water evaporates it undergoes a process called a phase transition. The liquid to gas phase transition is commonly refered to as evaporation. Any chemical that is undergoing a phase transition is in an equalibrium state. the temperature or the steam can not rise about the temperature of the water. As heat is added it converts to steam. Once all of the water evaporates it can then rise above the transition temperature (100c at 1 atm or 121c at 15 psi as Anno reported).

The key is this equalibrium. Heat added doesn't raise the temp it converts the phase. Evaporation is a cooling process and sucks some of the heat out of the water. This is why we sweat and blow on our food to cool it.

A simple proof of this is the phase transition from ice to water. If you have a large glass of water and ice it will be at 0c. The ice may be at below 0 initially but it will reach an equilibrium state with the water where they all sit at 0c. As heat is added from the environment it melts the ice and your drink sits at 0c but dilutes. Once the ice has all melted it car rise above 0c.

An interesting side note is triple points. A triple point is the temp and presure that liquid, gas and solid are all in equilibrium.


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: michaz]
    #895163 - 09/20/02 08:31 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Do not forget ........ altitude can effect temp/ presure relationship also .  :wink:
You are better of using glass , or plastics that are meant to be used in sterilizing process , most have a tendancy to degrade after awhile .
Good luck !  :cool: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: cnidarium]
    #895198 - 09/20/02 08:46 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

This was a good look at it . From an HVAC persons point of view humidity/ steam,vapor of almost any kind is "latent heat " meaning hidden heat . But yes evaporation is technically a conversion of heat energy , the hotter the souce the hotter the water , the hotter the water gets the hotter the steam gets, the hotter the steam gets, the higher the pressure gets in the the sealed vessel  . Has any one here seen "live steam "?....... is some wicked shit .......invisible to the eye , but will cut thru bone in seconds . :cool:
In school HVAC to calibrate our thermometers is to put them in a glass of ice water , even though water is not frozzen solid, temp  should be 32*F .  :cool:
oops had some corrections in wording there ...sorry  :smirk: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


Edited by tripndicular (09/20/02 08:51 AM)


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: tripndicular]
    #895215 - 09/20/02 08:52 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)



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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: matts]
    #895231 - 09/20/02 08:58 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Let us assume ........... I have a perfectly sealed vessel .......... I put water in , seal it up tight ..... and pressure will magically rise in the vessel with no conversion of energy i.e adding heat , flame , fire?
You must raise temp of water to increase pressure !  :smirk:
Water boils at 212*F uncovered at sea level(14.86 psi , atmospreic pressure) seal up and add pressure (to do so heat output at source must increase ) and the water will not boil until aprox 250*F .
Temp / pressure walk hand in hand , the greater the temp , the greater the pressure .  :cool:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


Edited by tripndicular (09/20/02 09:05 AM)


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Invisiblematts
matts

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[Re: matts]
    #895235 - 09/20/02 08:58 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)



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Invisiblematts
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[Re: matts]
    #895243 - 09/20/02 09:01 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)



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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: matts]
    #895286 - 09/20/02 09:17 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

True .....as soon as heat source is removed cooling takes place thus condensation, the rate at which it happens depends on the temp diffrential , the greater the temp diff , the quicker the cooling process . As soon as water molecules begin to slow (cooling) they condense back to liquid state , once below 212*F that is .
But steam is equally as hot as the water during the application of a heat source . especially under pressure .....(heat is trapped cant mix with cooler air right away)........ that is why a sealed pot will take longer to cool down verses an open one .
Get a pot of boiling water going , get pressure cooker going try to get same temp in each , then shut down heat .......see which one you can put hand in first .  :smile: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: tripndicular]
    #895295 - 09/20/02 09:21 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)



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Invisibletripndicular
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: matts]
    #895326 - 09/20/02 09:39 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Heat rises my friend ........
Temp diff is greater away from source that is why it feels cooler on the "outside" , but inside that sealed vessel it is just as hot . I will get my HVAC book from work Mon. and I will recite word for word the proof we all seek .  :cool: :smile: :smirk: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Invisiblematts
matts

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[Re: tripndicular]
    #895346 - 09/20/02 09:49 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)



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OfflineLoop_Theorist
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: matts]
    #895446 - 09/20/02 10:30 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I cannot belive we have this many posts over the temp of of boiling fucking water...


-Loop


--------------------
Pack-tight, midnight, ship it to tha coast.
Some take tha plane, you, you on tha boat,
right beside tha money which right beside tha coke
Passin by tha coastgaurd, right under their nose.

To the US-HEY where anyone can getny, MIA all the way to New Your city, you a twenty now....


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Invisibletripndicular
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Registered: 08/25/02
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: matts]
    #895474 - 09/20/02 10:43 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Please do not insult my intelligence ............ HVAC = HEATING / VENTELATION/ AIR CONDITIONING  :cool: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: tripndicular]
    #895544 - 09/20/02 11:09 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)



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InvisibleTM
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: tripndicular]
    #895574 - 09/20/02 11:24 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I am also a certified HVAC technician. I graduated Northeast Institute of Industrial Technology in 1981. That's why I know all about heat vs. pressure concerning not only water but dichloromonofloromethane (R22), dichlorodifloromethane (R12), ammonia, and more.

Just pressing down on the cover of my quality-made RevereWare pot of boiling water raises the temperature by slowing the escape in steam from the edge causing it to shoot a blasting burst from just one small spot. The resulting pressure increase causes a rise in temperature, a slight rise, like just 3 degrees Celsius, but a rise none the less.

This is the principle that pressure cookers work on, but at a much greater efficiency and therefore greater pressure and therefore greater heat.

Some people just can't admit when they're wrong. Earlier in this thread, I proved that I can admit my mistakes. Others just keep on laughing instead of learning. It's a shame.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: matts]
    #895588 - 09/20/02 11:29 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I work with boilers the size of a fucking semi truck . The same pricipals apply ! Do you always try so hard to make an ass out of yourself ? Or does it just come natural ? Do you know how a heat exchanger works ? Have you ever worked on cooling systems for nuclear power plants , the use of glycol, ammonia , freon ?
Hers one for ya since you are so informative .........If you set home thermostst to lower temps , will the system make colder air at vents ?
Most of this has no application to mushroom growing , but you already know this huh ? I JUST FELT LIKE BEING AN ASSHOLE !!!!!!!
As I stated earlier , I will get word for word" laws of physics" on the topic and post them .
If you really wanted to ......you could learn something from other people .
I'm over it .......are you ?


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: How hot it is in the steam pot ? [Re: TM]
    #895593 - 09/20/02 11:33 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

>I graduated Northeast Institute of Industrial Technology in 1981.

Wow, and then you claim that the steam over water has a higher temperature than the water underneath???

I can?t even lough about you anymore, it only makes me sad to see such a level of ignorance....


Edited by Anno (09/20/02 11:35 AM)


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