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libertaire
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Registered: 08/06/08
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Graveyard find - *ID Provided* - Armillaria Mellea (Honey Mushroom)
#8912221 - 09/11/08 12:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello folks:
Today, as I was walking by a graveyard, I discovered these curious creatures:


One by his lonesome...



I also found these...I won't need an ID for these, just thought they were cute little buggers:

No bruising, white gills.
These were all found in northern New Jersey, on the edge of a graveyard...I'm very new to the area of identifying mushrooms, so I'm not sure what they could be.
P.S. I'll be taking a spore print as soon as I can, so I'll update when I have that info. Thanks in advance.
Edited by libertaire (09/11/08 04:37 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Graveyard find - ID Needed [Re: libertaire]
#8912270 - 09/11/08 12:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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libertaire
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You appear to be correct, although the primary image on that page was deceiving at first. Were you able to tell simply from experience, or did you use a guide of some sort? Thanks for the ID.
Edit: I think mushroomexpert.com has a more descriptive/accurate site for this particular mushroom:
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/armillaria_mellea.html
Edited by libertaire (09/11/08 05:00 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Graveyard find - ID Needed [Re: libertaire]
#8913428 - 09/11/08 04:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can tell by looking at it, there aren't any other mushrooms that look like that and grow in clusters.
The beautiful color photos that some photographers can take usually don't look much like the ones that are often found out in the woods. Usually I can find some worse photos on mushroomobserver or other sites that can make comparing the pics a lot easier.
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Mr. Mushrooms
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libertaire
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Don't keep your mouth shut senor hongos. If you have something you think should be said, please say it.
I'm not planning on eating these if that's what you think. I'm taking mushroomexpert.com's advice and not consuming any mushrooms I find until I've been IDing for at least 3 years. I really want to, as I like the idea of being able to find edible mushrooms in the wild, but I know I don't have the experience to with out a shadow of a doubt ID a mushroom. Someone's opinion from a website or an online forum (no offense) is not enough of a resource for me to say for certain, and if I'm not certain, I ain't eatin it.
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Re: Graveyard find - ID Needed [Re: libertaire]
#8916743 - 09/12/08 05:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, I was just going to say how difficult it is to make sure this is actually A. mellea based on macromorphological characteristics. I prefer just calling it a Honey mushroom or using the genus name.
Then again, I am more cautious than some people when it comes to identifying a mushroom. It's not that I'm wishy washy or don't like commitment. My caution is driven by scientific circumspection and a predilection for esoteric philosophical musings such as whether it's possible to know anything with certitude. But that's just me. Others identify with bravado. It takes all kinds to make a world.
Kuo's link provides a better description in my opinion, however, he does credit Volk for his understanding of this mushroom.
If you need it for future reference, here's a link to Volk's dichotomous key:
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/armkey.html#mellea
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N2loma
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I'm in the practice of calling them "some Honey Mushroom," unless some obvious diagnostic characteristic is apparent, such as a lack of ring in A. tabescens.
-------------------- "So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean/ If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be" -Divide by Disturbed Good Guitars Don't Cry
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Alan Rockefeller
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I think its fine to call these Armillaria mellea. Of course there is a very low chance that is actually what it is but no one around here really cares if there are clamp connections or not, for good reason. Once I watched some professional mycologists try to ID an Armillaria to species for about three hours and after that experience I can definitely say that I don't give a rats ass what species any Armillaria really is and neither would anyone else if they had any idea what you have to do to get these things to species. Clamp connections are really elusive and determining that a sample lacks clamp connections takes a really long time because they are these little tiny bumps between cells that you can usually barely even see at 1000x even when the sample is stained and you are looking right at it. Also splitting species on the presence and absence of clamp connections is complete BS, you might as well split it by geographical location. The serious Armillaria keys have the presence or absence of clamp connections at the base of the basidia as the first thing on the key, that basically is telling you in no uncertain terms to go do something worthwhile with your time and do not try to ID Armillaria to species.
One more comment, finding clamp connections is hard but finding clamp connections at the base of a basidia is several orders of magnitude harder, and that is what is required to ID A. mellea. You have to find the cell that is connected to the base of the basidia and that cell is always buried deep in the gill. And since its the lack of clamp connections at the base of the basidia that makes the ID of mellea, you have to examine a whole lot of them and after 3 hours of that you still don't know if maybe there is one cell with a clamp there somewhere.
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libertaire
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Update:
White spore print.
As a side note, regardless of exact species, aren't all Armillarias edible anyhow?
I really don't think I would have the time to start putting mushrooms under a microscope to id them. It would most definitely be interesting, and I'd like to do it just to see what it looks like, but especially just to determine the edibility of it, I'd prefer to just leave that up to my eventual experience. I know that there is no absolutely positive way to identify something for certain, but if our ancestors were able to do it without a microscope and survive (through much trial and error obviously), I think we can also.
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libertaire
liberator



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Re: Graveyard find - ID Needed [Re: libertaire]
#8918180 - 09/12/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Senor Hongos:
On a visual basis, the only species in that link you provided that made sense was the mellea...one that looks close is the gallica, but the "cobwebby cortina" is what rules it out.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Graveyard find - ID Needed [Re: libertaire]
#8918264 - 09/12/08 12:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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All species of Armillaria are edible.
It is never necessary to use a microscope to determine edibility, that can always be done with macroscopic features. The only time a scope is needed is to put an exact name on something.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector


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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: I think its fine to call these Armillaria mellea. Of course there is a very low chance that is actually what it is but no one around here really cares if there are clamp connections or not, for good reason. Once I watched some professional mycologists try to ID an Armillaria to species for about three hours and after that experience I can definitely say that I don't give a rats ass what species any Armillaria really is and neither would anyone else if they had any idea what you have to do to get these things to species. Clamp connections are really elusive and determining that a sample lacks clamp connections takes a really long time because they are these little tiny bumps between cells that you can usually barely even see at 1000x even when the sample is stained and you are looking right at it. Also splitting species on the presence and absence of clamp connections is complete BS, you might as well split it by geographical location. The serious Armillaria keys have the presence or absence of clamp connections at the base of the basidia as the first thing on the key, that basically is telling you in no uncertain terms to go do something worthwhile with your time and do not try to ID Armillaria to species.
One more comment, finding clamp connections is hard but finding clamp connections at the base of a basidia is several orders of magnitude harder, and that is what is required to ID A. mellea. You have to find the cell that is connected to the base of the basidia and that cell is always buried deep in the gill. And since its the lack of clamp connections at the base of the basidia that makes the ID of mellea, you have to examine a whole lot of them and after 3 hours of that you still don't know if maybe there is one cell with a clamp there somewhere.
Yes, but can we really ever know anything with certitude? See the Philosophy and Spirituality forum for details. 
I know you don't often have time for it, but I truly enjoy the justifications and reasonings behind the diagnostics. They give the forum a depth that makes it a pleasure to read. It also provides ample proof that some of us here are serious students of mycology (as if there were any doubt). I also like the stories.
Thanks for the post. I also wanted to make it plain why I don't post identifications with ex cathedra authority all the time. There are workable identifications, putative identifications and deadly, or incorrect, identifications. Like most here, it is only the latter with which I have a real problem.
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