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Anonymous

rye question
    #891415 - 09/18/02 05:00 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

I soaked rye for two hours then brought up to almost a simmer.  Then rinsed and drained.  then pcd them in all sized jars for roughly 45 to 60. No kernels exploded.  But there is a slight color change in the kernels .  Does this sound right.  How do i tell if I have the right moisture content.  im using F+ ,Cam,Haw,SA part of the dark days special from the little guy :grin: 


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: rye question [Re: ]
    #891422 - 09/18/02 05:03 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

This sounds correct.  The grain is saturated and cooked.  Have you ever soaked and cooked anything raw?  It changes color, right? :grin:

I think you'll be fine on the moisture content.  If it looks moist in there, the kernels are expanded, but everything is still very shakeable and nothing is literally soaking wet, you're probably in good shape.

Peace 


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Anonymous

Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #891477 - 09/18/02 05:26 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

thanx im going to spawn straw/dung then case with coir and verm. hopeing for big yeilds. also used rest of spore water in a honey water tek for future use.later


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Re: rye question [Re: ]
    #891606 - 09/18/02 06:26 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Just make sure your jars are able to exchange gas without intoroducing contams, ie: filter disks or tyvek... Sealed jars will not germinate spores.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #891669 - 09/18/02 06:56 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

In reply to:

Sealed jars will not germinate spores.




I'm sorry, but I don't believe this.


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: mickey_rourke]
    #891683 - 09/18/02 07:03 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)



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Re: rye question [Re: matts]
    #891694 - 09/18/02 07:06 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

I just wanted it known that the spores will indeed germinate.  :grin: 


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #891708 - 09/18/02 07:13 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Yes they will, but as matts said, the growth will stall.


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Re: rye question [Re: Anno]
    #891759 - 09/18/02 07:41 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

If the statment is 100% true .............then how does a strain grown and selected in a sealed petri dish almost double in size every other day . This is the case for me at least . According to "THE BOOK" and many other things I have read C02 is only an inhibitor in the primordial stages and cropping stages . But in a sealed jar the excessive C02 could generate enough heat to effect overall growth , thus the need for air transfer of some sort thru filter or loose fitting lids .  :cool:
What do I know I have too much time on my hands ?  :wink: 


--------------------
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Invisiblematts
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[Re: tripndicular]
    #891773 - 09/18/02 07:45 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)



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Re: rye question [Re: matts]
    #891792 - 09/18/02 07:51 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Trapped  co2 causes heat build up hence the term.............. "green house" effect . :cool: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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Re: rye question [Re: matts]
    #891806 - 09/18/02 08:00 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

I'm certain people have used sealed jars with success. I don't think a sealed jar is necessarily better -- for instance, I use a polyfill filter. I was only asserting the fact that spores will indeed germinate in a sealed jar. Also, the mycellium could very well colonize grain in a sealed jar even though it probably isn't the ideal environment.

Peace


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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #892094 - 09/18/02 10:11 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

In my experience, if the jar is sealed tightly, the mycelium never becomes visible even though the spores may germinate. I believe the main reason for this is a factor of the rye being fermented and causing excess gasses and mycelial opponents.

I found this out quite by accident when I decided to try pickle and spaghetti sauce jars instead of canning jars with flipped lids (which only work part of the time for the same apparent reason).

When using filter patch bags or properly filtered jars, the mycelium rips through the rye as expected.


--------------------
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"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892109 - 09/18/02 10:18 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

If the jars are properly sterilized, the grain won't ferment. Yeast cannot survive an hour at 15 lbs.


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Re: rye question [Re: tripndicular]
    #892117 - 09/18/02 10:22 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

In reply to:

Trapped co2 causes heat build up hence the term.............. "green house" effect



The "green house effect" does not exist at petri dish level.


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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #892119 - 09/18/02 10:23 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Well, then I can't explain why, I just know it doesn't work.  :crazy:


--------------------
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"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892125 - 09/18/02 10:24 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Well, then I can't explain why, I just know it doesn't work.



Because something doesn't work for you doesn't mean that it won't work... How do you explain PF jars colonizing with tape on the holes?  :wink: 


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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #892150 - 09/18/02 10:38 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Maybe 'cause BRF isn't rye... I never said ALL substrates need air exchange, just rye... IME.  :crazy: 


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892152 - 09/18/02 10:40 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Hahaha.. Ok, we'll agree to disagree.. :smile: 


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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #892183 - 09/18/02 10:57 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Okay, but I'd still love to know why I can't get my rye to grow mycelium in a sealed jar... :smile: Hehehe. :confused: 


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892187 - 09/18/02 10:59 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Does the co2 in the jar not become too compressed causing the mycelium to be starved for space??
I have no idea if this is correct but it was a thought.


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892190 - 09/18/02 11:00 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

In reply to:

Okay, but I'd still love to know why I can't get my rye to grow mycelium in a sealed jar...



To be honest, I would think that you would see substantial growth at first, then the jars could possibly stall as stated above. I still think it would be possible to fully colonize a jar of grain with a sealed lid. I am going to have to try this. I will the next time I cook up some grain and post the results.


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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #892194 - 09/18/02 11:03 PM (19 years, 6 days ago)

Please, and THANK YOU!!! :smile: :grin: 


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892506 - 09/19/02 05:26 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

um, if you take a sealed balloon of CO2 with a thermometer in it, the temperature will remain at or near the surrounding ambient temperature. CO2 itself does not cause heating, just like the glass in your car windows does not in itself cause heating. the greenhouse effect is defined by, and can't occur without, light energy. CO2 in a jar in a dark place will not cause heating. jars of mycelium heat up because the growth of mycelium produces heat, not because there is CO2 in the jar. sorry, i'm just a geek.


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Re: rye question [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #892577 - 09/19/02 06:27 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)


>Does the co2 in the jar not become too compressed causing the mycelium to be >starved for space??
>I have no idea if this is correct but it was a thought.

Nope. CO2 is a gas, so mycelia should not be competing with it for space. The issue is that CO2 is formed as a waste product by the oxygen-"breathing" mycelia. The CO2 is taking up space, but it is oxygen that is being depleted by this, not the mycelia's growing room.

It is basically the same thing that would happen if I put you in a jar. You could breath for a while, but you would start to suffocate if the jar did not allow some gas exchange. Spores will germinate and grow a little in a sealed jar, but once the oxygen runs low, their growth will slow and then stall.

Has anyone considered a set up that paired an oxygen producer with a mushroom? Like a system where a sealed container, possibly chambered, is filled with an appropiate substrate and fully sterilized, and then innoculated with spores and, for instance, an algae? A true closed system terrarium?

For that matter, I wonder if an sizable algae tank could be introduced into a growing set up to provide oxygen and use up waste carbon dioxide without having to bring in outside, possibly contaminated air.


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Re: rye question [Re: mickey_rourke]
    #892663 - 09/19/02 07:35 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

In reply to:

To be honest, I would think that you would see substantial growth at first, then the jars could possibly stall as stated above. I still think it would be possible to fully colonize a jar of grain with a sealed lid. I am going to have to try this. I will the next time I cook up some grain and post the results.




im actually in the midst of trying this now. i innoculated my rye jars on friday the 13th. and yesterday the 18th most of them where well colinized. out of the 8 jars one has a bit of contam in it...so i seperated that one, and am going to wait and see what that jar does on its own. so far so good, though im not sure when the oxygen is going to run out of the jars. they where however shaken last night. i will wait and see how fast they recover, and post some results. but as far as the stalling goes...i havent noticed this yet. *knock on wood*


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Anonymous

Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #892832 - 09/19/02 09:15 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Thanx for the info.  :smile: to say im using tyvek filters.  Should I incubate with a regular heating pad in styro cooler? 


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: ]
    #892845 - 09/19/02 09:24 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)



Edited by matts (09/19/02 09:31 AM)


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Re: rye question [Re: TM]
    #893134 - 09/19/02 11:22 AM (19 years, 5 days ago)

my duck innoc'd rhy in quart jars. half had tyvec in place of jar lid, the others had one nail hole in lids covered by masking tape. They grew myc and progressed at exactly the same rate, although the tyvec jars seem to be slightly dryer. Do you think the tiny nailhole is large enough to accomodate gas exchange?



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Re: rye question [Re: Bilge]
    #893433 - 09/19/02 01:17 PM (19 years, 5 days ago)

Not only light aids the heating process, that can occur especially in the microscopic world , but the transfer of different energies (food supply) , the decompositon of enzymes other gas exchanges ammonia , nitrates etc......ambient temps , all cotribute ther part to green house effects . A balance of all is what we all commonly seek during incubation of mycelium , to much swing in either direction will spell catastrophy .
But it is not 100% accurate to say growth will be retarded , but in excess at the right times to much c02 , too much o2 can cause noticable growth restrictions .
In life and in physics (one in the same ) any time energy is released or transfered heat is generated than disipated ....... heat seeks cold  , for every action there is an equal reaction . I am sure this applies to mycology also , just in smaller scale .
Good luck to all
May the godess of mushrooms bless all yout endeavors  :cool: 


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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