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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan
    #8911580 - 09/11/08 11:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Some of you who post here will remember several months ago when Barack Obama mentioned that it might be necessary to strike into Pakistan to deal with Al-Qaeda or other terrorists, and that it might not always be prudent or possible to let the Pakistanis know ahead of time.

You'll also remember that our pet conservatives here threw an absolute bitch-fit that he could even DARE suggest such a thing.

Turns out it wasn't so far off after all, since their Mr. Bush is now doing the EXACT SAME THING.

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush secretly approved U.S. military raids inside Pakistan against alleged terrorist targets, according to a former intelligence official with recent access to the Bush administration's debate about how to fight al Qaeda and the Taliban inside the lawless tribal border area.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the classified order.

The official told The Associated Press that Bush signed the order during the summer. It gives new authority to U.S. special operations forces to target suspected terrorists in the dangerous area along the Afghanistan border.

In addition to the presidential approval for special operations missions, conventional ground troops have new authority to pursue militants across the Afghan border. The "rules of engagement" have been loosened, allowing troops to conduct border attacks without being fired on first if they witness attacks coming from the region. That would include artillery, rockets and mortar fire from the Pakistan side of the border.

The Pakistani government is not told about the targets in advance because of concerns that the Pakistani intelligence service and military are infiltrated by al Qaeda and Taliban supporters, the former official said.
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U.S. counterterror operations along the border are highly unpopular in Pakistan, whose new leadership is trying hard to show independence from Washington.

At the same time, the former official said, the Pakistan government recognizes that its settled areas are increasingly targeted by terrorist and militant attacks emanating from the tribal region and its military is not equipped to counter the threat.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/11/pakistan.raid.ap/index.html




I'd love to hear one of you dopes explain why it was horrifically wrong when B-Rock suggested it, but oh-so-right when authorized by your idiotic child president.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8911656 - 09/11/08 11:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8911962 - 09/11/08 01:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The Bush administration operating in secrecy??

Imagine that.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8913308 - 09/11/08 06:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

>I'd love to hear one of you dopes explain why it was horrifically wrong when B-Rock suggested it, but oh-so-right when authorized by your idiotic child president.

Don't you know? It's because Obama wanted to spread Marxism throughout Pakistan. Every time a Democratic president invades a country, Karl Marx gets one step closer to resurrection and he will rule the world with Obama at his side unless we stop him with good-old American values.

Or so I've heard :shrug:


--------------------
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                                                part of the world belongs to me
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                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: zouden]
    #8913344 - 09/11/08 06:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> I'd love to hear one of you dopes explain why it was horrifically wrong when B-Rock suggested it, but oh-so-right when authorized by your idiotic child president.

I'll give you a hint, since you can't seem to figure it out for yourself... something significant has changed in Pakistan in the last few days.  Can you guess what it is?  An even bigger hint... "change of power"...

The US no longer feels obligated to help maintain a US friendly regime in Pakistan because the US friendly regime just got removed from office, the all the deals that were with the previous administration in Pakistan are no longer valid.

(Ack, three grumpy posts in a row... apologies for being rude.)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Seuss]
    #8913366 - 09/11/08 06:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I fail to see how Bhutto's husband is somehow less friendly than Mr. Musharraf.

He's not an Islamist, he's not a dictator, and he seems seriously concerned about the influence of terrorists in his country.

No, I don't think this is it at all.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8913396 - 09/11/08 06:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah Bhutto is way better than the old dictator. If anything, the US would feel emboldened to go into Pakistan since it now has a more West-friendly leader.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8913444 - 09/11/08 06:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> He's not an Islamist, he's not a dictator, and he seems seriously concerned about the influence of terrorists in his country.

And when it reins in the out of control US, who looks good?  It is a very small window of opportunity that the US is taking advantage of.


--------------------
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Seuss]
    #8913551 - 09/11/08 07:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Pakistan to defend borders against US military incursions

Quote:

His statement followed an unprecedented US helicopter-borne commando assault on a village inside Pakistani territory last week in which 20 people were killed, including women and children.

General Ashfaq Kiyani, Pakistan's army chief, criticised the raid. "The sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country will be defended at all cost," he said, adding that there was no "agreement or understanding with the coalition forces whereby they are allowed to conduct operations on our side of the border".




Bush was just waiting until he'd cause more international tension. Before, there wouldn't have been any. There's no fun in that. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8913734 - 09/11/08 07:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Foreign Ministry called the strike "a gross violation of Pakistan's territory..."




Quote:

the raid occurred on Pakistani soil about one mile from the Afghan border.




C'mon.

Maybe they'll actually start taking care of business in that area.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


Edited by Crasher (09/11/08 07:34 PM)


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8913815 - 09/11/08 07:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That's illegal and he should be impeached for it


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: zouden]
    #8914077 - 09/11/08 08:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Karl Marx gets one step closer to resurrection




I thought Groucho would have been first since he's the best know

which movies did Karl do?


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8914314 - 09/11/08 08:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Its a stupid move that will eventually cause the afghani war to spill over across into northern pakistan. If ISAF and US forces continue their use of airstrikes based on second hand information that causes civilian casualties then you have just the fodder needed for jihadist propaganda and recruitment.

Its based on the principle that denying the R&R of militants using northern pakistan as a area to rearm and organize and hop back into Afghanistan, similar to Laos and Cambodia. The US is putting pressure on the new regime by making it attack islamists, lots of islamists who were trained by ISI in the mountains of southern afghanistan during the taliban reign to attack indians in Kashmir and Jammu. Its Pakistan reaping what it has sewn, so it needs to walk a tightrope between moderate punjabs and islam and militants influenced by the taliban with a presence in the ISI.

The goal of theses airstrikes and commando raids are for purely political reasons, to try and kill high ranking Al Qaeda members so the repulicans can claim PR victories on a organization that is becoming more and more open source and decentralized. Especially in the areas of Waziristan where local manufacture their own weapons and explosives, and are used to fighting the Pakistani army and winning on their own turf.

By putting the pressure on the Pakistan it forces them to meet quota levels, which is why militants killed by airstrikes are conveniently rounded off to round numbers, like a hundred or fifty. While the islamists produce propaganda that influence pakistans government, and the US, and Israel as being culpable in the very attacks targeting some Pashtun village, it only further incites recruitment. Diverting troop levels into Afghanistan from Iraq could motivate further attacks by iraqi insurgents.

The Pak-Afghan border needs to be sealed and it needs to be done by pakistan in the most brutal of ways. If not then it only shows a culpability between the two, a militancy who fought previously against India.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: zouden]
    #8925722 - 09/13/08 11:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Yeah Bhutto is way better than the old dictator. If anything, the US would feel emboldened to go into Pakistan since it now has a more West-friendly leader.





Because now Pakistan is being ruled, ostensibly, by the people.  Not a dictator.

Dictator was real friendly with us.  Maybe Bhutto is too, but the Pakistani PEOPLE don't exactly love america the mostest ever.

That means that a regime that is overly friendly and accomodating to America will not last.
That means that even if Bhutto would have given permission, giving permission may have endangered his rule of Pakistan -- and so in order to keep a friendly face in charge, we have to spit in his eye with a sly wink and he's got to wave his fist in the air with a smile.


Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
That's illegal and he should be impeached for it





LMAO
on what basis?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

Even if we ignore the fact that Congress basically authorized the President to send our military where he wants, when he wants, so long as what he wants is to kill terrorists, the President is entirely within his legal rights to have authorized this raid in to Pakistan.  Hell, they could've hung out for 59 days and still been kosher.

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:Waziristan




If you're going to just start making places up, I'm going home.  :crankey:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8925730 - 09/13/08 11:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8925732 - 09/13/08 11:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:Waziristan




If you're going to just start making places up, I'm going home.  :crankey:




LOL


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8925748 - 09/13/08 11:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waziristan




:lol:

PWND.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Redstorm]
    #8925775 - 09/13/08 11:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I only knew because the first time I read about "Waziristan" in the Chicago Tribune years back I was like, "No way that's a real fucking place..."


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Bush Authorizes Raids on Pakistan [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8930059 - 09/14/08 08:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm all for killing fanatic towel heads by any means necessary.  The more of them that die, the safer the world will be.


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