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Offlinehoodbran
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LHC World's End 9/10/08
    #8889725 - 09/07/08 04:36 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Just in case the world ends on Sept 10th, I wish you all success in whatever level of molecular splitting destiny you find yourself! - I for one will be eating all of my shrooms :crazy2:



The Hadron Collider will be turned on after successfully completing a cool down phase and we'll all find out if we'll be around the next day or falling through some black hole created by crazy atom splitting physicists, at first it was the A-Bomb, now they're taking it a step further and recreating the conditions 1/Billionth of a second right after the Big Bang :eek:



Such is the angst that the American Nobel prize winning physicist Frank Wilczek of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology has even had death threats, said Prof Brian Cox of Manchester University, adding: "Anyone who thinks the LHC will destroy the world is a twat."

The facility is due to go live on September 10.

The scientists have lodged a lawsuit at the European Court for Human Rights against 20 countries that fund the scheme.

But the project's scientists dismissed the fears as "absurd".

Large particle colliders have been used by scientists to smash atoms together for more than 30 years, but the LHC is the biggest and most powerful ever built.

It will fire atomic particles around the 27.3km circular tunnel 11,245 times a second before smashing them into each other.

The result will, for a split second, replicate the conditions that theoretically existed in the moments immediately after the birth of the universe, known as the Big Bang.

Opponent Otto Rossler says it could instead spawn mini black holes which, within four years, could grow big enough to suck the earth inside out.

They claim the experiment violates the right to life under the European Convention of Human Rights.

Professor Rossler, a German chemist, said the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) has admitted its project creates black holes but doesn't consider them to be a risk.

"My own calculations have shown it is quite plausible that these little black holes survive and will grow exponentially and eat the planet from the inside," he warned.

"I have been calling for CERN to hold a safety conference to prove my conclusions wrong but they have not been willing."
news.com.au

- Oh Dear! There's always some bastard willing to screw with my day.

Edited by TerryTibbs (09/07/08 05:12 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8890050 - 09/07/08 08:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

:rolleyes:

I'm not going to trust the calculations of a single chemist over the calculations of the worlds best and brightest particle physicists...


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Seuss]
    #8890204 - 09/07/08 09:38 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The same crack-pots were predicting this kind of world-ending-nonsense before the relativistic heavy ion collider in NY started, too.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind one of those catastrophic scenarios wherein all life is exterminated.  Nothing of value will be lost.

So either we fill in some gaps in the standard model and find the Higgs, or we all die; it's win-win.


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Edited by Minstrel (09/07/08 09:51 AM)

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8890493 - 09/07/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

A lackluster day for scientists and laymen alike.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8890704 - 09/07/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

> On the other hand, I wouldn't mind one of those catastrophic scenarios wherein all life is exterminated.

Just let me know first.  I want to be spun on a few hits of quality acid when I get sucked into the event horizon.  Time dilation on acid has to be the ultimate long lasting trip.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Seuss]
    #8890962 - 09/07/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> On the other hand, I wouldn't mind one of those catastrophic scenarios wherein all life is exterminated.

Just let me know first.  I want to be spun on a few hits of quality acid when I get sucked into the event horizon.  Time dilation on acid has to be the ultimate long lasting trip.




:rofl::thumbup:


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OfflineAgroCrag
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8892054 - 09/07/08 05:24 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

actually the LHC turns on Sept. 10 but the first collisions won't be until Oct. 21, then that's when we'll die,
so we got another month or so ha

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: AgroCrag]
    #8893612 - 09/07/08 10:05 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

What? I thought they turned it on last month?  We've still got to wait another 6 weeks still?  It's gonna be forever before we get to hear any useful data coming out :crankey:

All I want to know is if they're going to find the Higgs boson.

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Offlinehoodbran
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8894799 - 09/08/08 04:34 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

They are firing it on the 10th... BBC Radio are having coverage all day for the first proton beams

http://voanews.com/english/2008-09-07-voa5.cfm

After more than 30 years of planning, 14 years of building and $10 billion later, the Large Hadron Collider, the world's biggest atom smasher, is due to start up on September 10. Scientists predict collisions of sub-atomic particles produced by the LHC will allow them to get closer than ever before to answering questions about the origins of the universe. Lisa Schlein reports for VOA from CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research in Geneva....

[scientists] say protons are fed directly into the LHC ring via two injection lines, one for each beam. He says the first attempt to circulate two proton beams all the way around the ring will occur on September 10. 

It is indeed Wednesday

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8894835 - 09/08/08 05:03 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

> What? I thought they turned it on last month?

They did, but particles were only shot in one direction at a time, and not allowed to go all the way around.  Testing, they are.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8895833 - 09/08/08 11:34 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Collisions ranging from 1 million to 100 million times more powerful than the best the LHC can produce occur in our atmosphere many thousands of times a day from natural cosmic ray collisions. This has been going on for some 5 billion years. Every day!

The Oh My God Particle causes many of them.

I wouldn't worry much about that puny little LHC. Nature is way ahead of us.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8895912 - 09/08/08 11:56 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

if the above scenario takes place, i hope i'm asleep


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: demiu5]
    #8895945 - 09/08/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You have an eternity to sleep.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Offlinehoodbran
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #8896109 - 09/08/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I found this on Youtube:
END:DAY - has 6 parts under 8 minutes long and encompasses the LHC, 6 scenarios, very good watch!

My theory is the Govts know they are gonna blow us up in a black hole, i mean the world is messed up, wars, credit crunch, terror... maybe the human race goes this way? we get technologically advanced and realize how we've messed up and we blow ourselves away then the earth reforms and thus we go...

Edited by TerryTibbs (09/08/08 01:05 PM)

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8896371 - 09/08/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

how would it reform? I mean i realize white holes are a part of black holes, but wouldnt it be a bunch of small black holes not just one big one?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Offlinehoodbran
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #8896558 - 09/08/08 02:16 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Assuming the universe has been around forever then it could be feasable that if this planet was destroyed then life must form someplace else, if not when all the energy in what was once earth slowed enough to form again, maybe it's man's destiny that we get to a point where the only option is to self destruct; like a crazy loop...

Of course this aint no answer by any meas, but a quickly spun up theory...

Those in the know chose to make the atom bomb, then we realize we've been here before and the LHC is a device to obliterate this unpredictable world... Cave dwellers have LOADS of technology (Bin Laden) and it would just be as better to wipe out life, because the allies dont want the enemy (citizens) finding out the truth - assuming also those in the 'know' are assured they are safe... maybe theyve been colonizing space and they're gonna fuck us off on weds... LOL

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OfflineYthanA
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8896787 - 09/08/08 03:09 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I know there is some concern about the LHC ramping up to begin full-scale testing in October, so I made a handy illustrative chart.



Personally, I think if the world is going to end, it would be an honor and privilege to be present for its final moments. We all gotta die anyway, right? Unfortunately I'll probably die clutching my chest after eating that second Big Mac, like most other sedentary American males. It seems much less exciting.

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Ythan]
    #8896961 - 09/08/08 03:52 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

ahhh, but much more important than how we die is when we die.

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: DieCommie]
    #8896985 - 09/08/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

2012 of course, anyone who doesn't know that clearly has too little faith in the knowledge of the intarnetz :grin:

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OfflineAgroCrag
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8897521 - 09/08/08 05:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i'm still gonna bank on the fact that Aliens will come blow it up before it can get going, then everyone will be relieved its gone ha regardless of how or what destroyed it

the only thing its gonna do, confirm or deny higgs boson, after that probably nothing exciting for a while

just too much hype:shrug:

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: AgroCrag]
    #8899202 - 09/08/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

If it denies the higgs (if its capable of doing that) then that will shake up the field.  But most likely it will either confirm or be inconclusive and particle physics continues to be a dieing field.

I guess thats whats known as being a victim of your own success; making a theory so good that nothing new comes around for 40 years or more.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: demiu5]
    #8900646 - 09/09/08 05:59 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
if the above scenario takes place, i hope i'm asleep




fuck no. i want to see the universe ripped apart.  :awesome:


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Offlinehoodbran
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #8900688 - 09/09/08 06:32 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
Quote:

demius said:
if the above scenario takes place, i hope i'm asleep




fuck no. i want to see the universe ripped apart.  :awesome:




Same here, but, in case it doesn't rip spacetime apart then ive decided to change my career choice and will begin in earnest on thursday morning! - it would be quite terrific to see something like a black hole coming your way, that my friends is a once in a lifetime ticket so it can't be all bad....

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8901280 - 09/09/08 10:09 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

what time will they start ?


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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: NaturalHypnosis]
    #8901443 - 09/09/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

8:30am (BST) 2:30am (EST)  - I just saw Sky News and they are using two beams in opposite directions to cause collisions at near light speed... eek!

http://webcast.cern.ch/index.html

Edited by TerryTibbs (09/09/08 04:58 PM)

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #8903662 - 09/09/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

lefty, i didn't think about the beautiful spectacle that would be, and the pain would probably be over pretty quickly.  unfortunately i will be asleep at 2:30est cause i will have class to attend at 8am central time :grin:


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: demiu5]
    #8904001 - 09/09/08 07:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

LHC rap.



--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

Edited by Nephlyte (09/09/08 07:59 PM)

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InvisibleSFsorrow
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8904381 - 09/09/08 09:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

This is nothing to be worried about. Humanity will continue as normal, just with some sweet experiments going on underground. I do hope this new tool will invigorate physics with new, unexpected results. Things have gotten to stagnant.

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: SFsorrow]
    #8905146 - 09/10/08 12:23 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

T-1H:07M and counting!! - it'll probably let out a little puff of smoke lol

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8905234 - 09/10/08 12:53 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Shits going crazy over here!  :epileptic:  See you all in hell!

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8905357 - 09/10/08 01:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

15 minutes in and we're still alive... they hare hoping to collide the two beams later today... hold on tight - also they had an electrical problem at 4:00am and found a 'work around'

Edited by TerryTibbs (09/10/08 02:05 AM)

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8905669 - 09/10/08 06:23 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

While I believe (and I stress it) that the chances of a world-ending event to come of this are exceedingly low, I still believe there to be some chance of catastrophe occuring - we simply don't know as much about physics as we would like (thus the LHC and many other particle accelerators).

Now, in the (severely low) chance that something bad does occur, I think it highly unlikely it would be instantaneous or even within the first few (hundred, thousand?) collisions.  That would be too much like a movie, in which pacing is very important for our short-attention spanned audiences.  This is not a movie (well, I guess you could think of it as one, but that's up to you), this is life.  Therefore, if/when something catastrophic comes of this, it will not occur for quite some time and we may not notice it (depending on the nature of it) for some more time afterward.  Anyone expecting the lack of instant destruction to prove the safety of the LHC is, to use the parlance of Proffessor Brian Cox, a twat.

I am not exactly enthused at these "electrical" problems with quick-hack solutions, and neither should you be.  Still, I close this by reiterating, the chances of one of the world-ending possibilities occuring is surely much less than any of us winning the lottery.  Let's just hope we don't "win" this lottery :/


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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Diploid]
    #8905674 - 09/10/08 06:29 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Collisions ranging from 1 million to 100 million times more powerful than the best the LHC can produce occur in our atmosphere many thousands of times a day from natural cosmic ray collisions. This has been going on for some 5 billion years. Every day!

The Oh My God Particle causes many of them.

I wouldn't worry much about that puny little LHC. Nature is way ahead of us.



I would like to point out that we know physics works differently in different scales and environments.  Physics at the macroscopic level with some atmospheres is known to work a bit differently than physics at the microscopic (nano/pico) level in a vacuum.  I am pretty sure (though I have not recently reviewed) that the environment within a particle accelerator is such that smaller amounts of energy can be used than would need to be used in our open air.  If this is the case, I don't think the OMG particle through space/atmosphere/earth (and it goes through EVERYTHING, right?) is a  very good direct comparison.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8905786 - 09/10/08 07:24 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Ahaha... check out the Google top level page. The graphics pay homage to the LHC.

BTW, most of the people in this thread (and most of the public) don't realise that it will be months before the energies at the LHC are turned up to the maximum 14 TeV. At the moment and for the immediate future, the energies will be far lower than many other accelerators already in operation for years. Today's collisions are just the first low energy tests on the power-up roadmap.

I think the people at CERN are letting the public think that today is the critical day so the irrational hysteria over the end of the world will go away after today's certain (because the energy is nothing special at the moment) non-event.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Diploid]
    #8906055 - 09/10/08 09:02 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I think the people at CERN are letting the public think that today is the critical day so the irrational hysteria over the end of the world will go away after today's certain (because the energy is nothing special at the moment) non-event.




Makes sense.  I was wondering why they weren't correcting the misconception.


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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Seuss]
    #8908114 - 09/10/08 04:58 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Which leads me to again say, DUH!  OF COURSE IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT AWAY :tongue:

Also, I read the How Stuff Works article, and it mentions the OMG particle safety theory that Diploid references; however, it also references a non-chemist who suggests the chances of catastrophe are 1 in 50 million (less than lotto, like I said).  Apparently, there will be no collisions just yet, they are going to be sending particles in only one direction for a bit (if I read it correctly).

So, once again, while I am in total agreement that as far as we know (and hope) there is little chance of something catastrostrophic occuring (aside from actually finding the Higgs-Boson, which is supposed to be the worst case scenario since it adds nothing new), I just don't think the best idea is to be totally smug about things and thinking we're invincible.  We're young yet, though, so I guess that's natural, eh?  I am all for getting the irrational hysteria out of the way, though, and I agree that it is probably a good idea to let it subside.  People, in general, are cattle and they heard some things about the possibility of MAJOR BAD THINGS OH NOES and freaked out.  Clearly death threats to scientistists are coming from twats...  With this probably passing soon, I hope it allows entrance for a small number of domain-experts who can ask the right questions (of the data) and keep watch for anything we don't want happening (like a slightly stronger than "not enough to light a light bulb" black hole).

Let's all cheer for Hawking Radiation (which is supposed to be one of the mitigating factors that helps those tiny black holes collapse)!


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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: hoodbran]
    #8908371 - 09/10/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)



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delta9

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: delta9]
    #8908387 - 09/10/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Even IF black holes are created, and IF Hawking Radiation doesn't exist in nature, the simple fact it that the black holes will come into existence traveling at some large fraction of c and posses an EXTREMELY tiny cross-section. This means that they will fly through the Earth and out harmlessly into space a few microseconds after they're created.

All these fears are completely unwarranted. They're reminiscent of how, when loccomotors were invented, non-scientists were convinced that humans would die if made to travel at the amazing speed of 60 miles per hour.

Relax. You're far more likely to die driving your car.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Diploid]
    #8908827 - 09/10/08 07:28 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
They're reminiscent of how, when locomotor were invented, non-scientists were convinced that humans would die if made to travel at the amazing speed of 60 miles per hour.




With a name like "locomotives" (ie, crazy motives), no wonder they were afraid....!    :tongue:


>^;;^<


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8908940 - 09/10/08 07:53 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: daussaulit]
    #8908976 - 09/10/08 08:01 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Get that man a crowbar!!


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Offlinesupra
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8908988 - 09/10/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i love the under chin hard hats, they look hilarious, as does the guy in the suit using a torque wrench...lmao...good stuff, oh, the hl2 reference is spot on as well.

peace

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: supra]
    #8909569 - 09/10/08 10:06 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Ooops! I think he stripped the nut. Now they'll have to take it all apart again. :whoa:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinetripp23
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Re: LHC World's End 9/10/08 [Re: Diploid]
    #8922011 - 09/13/08 02:52 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

what if a black hole is actually just a portal to another dimension or perhaps or another part of the universe?? just a theory of my own.. knowbody will probably ever know..


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Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!


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