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Invisibleseven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: alkylbenzene23]
    #8859479 - 09/01/08 09:25 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

grow the same isolate in the same environmental factors on differant substrates. one tray of each is not enough proof. i would try four or five trays of each. but testing potency has variables also. by the end of testing batches you build a tolarance, your diet and method of consumption effect the experience.. without chemicaly testing the alkiloids in the test batches, i view any results as openion: and your avrage joe does not have the lab equiptment to test the alkiloids. i beleive the isolate has  genetic code that will determin how potent the fruits will be.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: seven]
    #8859616 - 09/01/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Potency is genetic.  There is growing evidence that slower growing mushrooms develop more potency, so if you're looking for something environmental to manipulate, grow at a lower temperature, thus slowing growth.  Many growers, myself included have noticed mushrooms grown in cooler temps have a bit more potency, but you're not going to increase potency by using manure rather than straw or brf cakes, etc.

I'm also curious why a supposedly internet savvy group like  most of the members here have such a total lack of ability to use a search engine.  Shroomery has an excellent 'search posts' feature, with the link at the top of the page.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlineshroomizzy
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8859664 - 09/01/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

One thing I have neglected to do in the past, is try and come together with all ideal conditions. One thing that worries me is going to be the fruiting temperature. I live in West Central Florida, and average room temperature is 78-80. I guess I am going to have to work with these temperatures until the cooler months set in.


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Offlinequickpick
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: shroomizzy]
    #8860130 - 09/01/08 12:01 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hey,

I totally agree with RR.  Potency potential is genetic, like cannabis.  But if the environment and growing media are not 'good' (optimal is better of course :wink: ) then the inherent potency potential will not be fully realized.  So, IMO, they are interlinked...

For 'strong' mushrooms you need good genetics, yet you can't realize the fungi's full genetic potency potential without good environment/substrate/nutrients

That said, I'm sure we can increase the potency of our grows buy allowing the full genetic potential to be exhibited.  For example, there is evidence that a casing with high pH of say 8 will lower ability of the fungals (ex. p.cube) to reach it's full genetic potential in terms of potency and yield. 

See this thread for pH info: Does Growing Medium Ph Affect Potency?

HTH :smile:


Edited by quickpick (09/01/08 12:06 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: quickpick]
    #8860309 - 09/01/08 12:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

For example, there is evidence that a casing with high pH of say 8 will lower ability of the fungals (ex. p.cube) to reach it's full genetic potential in terms of potency




I think you're confused over what a 'casing' is vs what a 'substrate' is.  The mycelium colonizes and derives it's food supply from the substrate.  The casing is is placed there at full colonization of the substrate only as a top layer to supply moisture to support the flush and to help provide a mini-climate right at the surface of the substrate that helps primordia form. 

There's not one shred of evidence to support pH of the casing layer changes potency.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinequickpick
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8860471 - 09/01/08 01:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hey RR,

Thanks for the clarification, I  should have typed sub not casing, I was thinking sub when I typed casing.  I do understand the diff between casing and sub :wink: .

What I mean is that is the pH of the casing should be important (though maybe not as important) as the pH of the sub.  The mycelium still grows into and through the casing so it seems an ideal pH in the casing is wise too...

The whole idea of a high pH in casing is as you've mentioned, to prelude 'bad' organisms.  I would prefer to have my casing made to benefit the mycelium with a lower pH than is generally suggested for casing.  Though I'm aware this means an increased chance of contamination, which I will fix with beneficial microorganisms. 

(And yes I know this is getting deep for most people but IMO this is how mushrooms will be grown in the future, not with highly caustic h.lime.  Besides, BIM have a synergistic and in some cases symbiotic relationship with fungals like p.cube)

Thoughts?  Thanks :smile:


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: quickpick]
    #8860703 - 09/01/08 01:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I personally don't know why anyone would want anything colonizing their casing I case and induce fruiting conditions right away and it has great success for me.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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Offlinequickpick
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8860774 - 09/01/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hi ScavangerType,

How ya doing? :smile:

I'm not talking about colonization of the casing (or overlay), just the fact that the mycelium does grow through it and in minor part does colonize when pining into fruit body (please correct me if I'm wrong).  The pH of the casing can't be an immaterial variable, Nature doesn't work like that.

Have a good one! :smile:


Edited by quickpick (09/01/08 02:05 PM)


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: quickpick]
    #8860795 - 09/01/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

yes but if you make your casing more hospitable to the mushrooms then your just encouraging it to colonize it and you're more likely to get patches. That's just my thoughts on it anyway.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


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OfflineCitratox
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8860876 - 09/01/08 02:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
There is growing evidence that slower growing mushrooms develop more potency, so if you're looking for something environmental to manipulate, grow at a lower temperature, thus slowing growth.  Many growers, myself included have noticed mushrooms grown in cooler temps have a bit more potency
RR




Diddnt know that, cool!  :omgawesome:


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Offlinequickpick
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: ScavengerType]
    #8860962 - 09/01/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hey ST,

:smile:

Quote:

yes but if you make your casing more hospitable to the mushrooms then your just encouraging it to colonize it and you're more likely to get patches. That's just my thoughts on it anyway.




Yes I agree.  That is something I've been wrestling with too.  I've come to the semi-solid conclusion that I'll just keep a close eye on it and initiate pining appropriately.  Maybe a bit early or just use patching [re: covering small areas] where needed (if needed).

But as the casing medium is generally non-nutritive it shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Have a good one :smile:


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OfflinePsuper
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Registered: 02/12/08
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8861196 - 09/01/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Potency is genetic.  There is growing evidence that slower growing mushrooms develop more potency, so if you're looking for something environmental to manipulate, grow at a lower temperature, thus slowing growth.  Many growers, myself included have noticed mushrooms grown in cooler temps have a bit more potency
RR






Thanks for sharing RR.  Interesting. ~Pixie~


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Offlinethe_0wl
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: Psuper]
    #8861355 - 09/01/08 03:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Moral of the story here is learn to isolate strains or clone.  Find that fire and duplicate it.


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Invisibleseven
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Registered: 06/09/08
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: the_0wl]
    #8861636 - 09/01/08 04:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

RR, while the topic is on the subject of potency: if slower grown mushrooms have the potential to be more potent, does this mean the older the mycelium = more potent. to state my question more clearly: if you G2G A couple times  would the fruits be more potent after the transfers? as opposed to fruiting the first jar? or is it just the fruits developing slower that makes this environmental increse in potency?


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: seven]
    #8861704 - 09/01/08 04:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

no it has to do with the metabolic speed dictated by temperatures or possibly a stunted height caused by low temperatures I don't know and I doesn't sound like RR does though his speculation is probibly infinitely more insightful than mine.

Anyway G2Ging is not the same and has nothing to do with it it's an environmental factor thus it's mentioning in this thread.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


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InvisibleKrackers
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Re: Environmental factors- potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8862351 - 09/01/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
There is growing evidence that slower growing mushrooms develop more potency, so if you're looking for something environmental to manipulate, grow at a lower temperature, thus slowing growth. RR





OOOOOO:grin:
very interesting indeed, never read through any discussions concerning growth rate and potency...

My first grow just so happens to be fruiting at ~68 and i was a little irked at their slow progress vs some of the grow logs out there.

RR is like the calvary, bringing in the good news:)

Its true too! Fellow noobiles use the search button to get some amazingly detailed responses to whatever concerns you may have.

peacefully,


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