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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: I'm voting Mickey Mouse in '08 [Re: johnm214]
#8841459 - 08/28/08 12:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I suppose runoff is better than point scoring now that I look at it's methodology.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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hamandcheese
Sandwich
Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 12,530
Loc: Next Level
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Re: I'm voting Mickey Mouse in '08 [Re: ScavengerType]
#8841532 - 08/28/08 12:49 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: well then we're arguing the same point, I know the system we are talking about does not quite equate exactly with either of the systems we linked to. I know it's a subtle difference but all proportional representation systems are essentially similar and frankly picking one means many different complications and separate political results based on many different internal factors. The next question is "do you think there is a significant interest in reform of how votes are counted in the US to justify attempting a proportional representation model?" I am not a US citizen but it does look like a realistic ambition particularly with how many disaffected voters I see in the US.
yes i do belive there is significant interest in reforming how votes are counted, and counted probably isnt the right word, delegated seems more applicable given the electoral college are actually the ones that vote. and even then its not a garentee that they will votefor who we the people have suggested they vote for.(only 24 states have penaltys for a faithless electors)
i don't see how you can say that a single vote system in which the person who has not recieved to most votes can still win is viable. maybe back in the day... but i still think thats questionable at best.
and a third party just doesnot stand any chance what so ever in there. even if by some off the wall chance a third party canidate manages to get more votes than either other canidate, unless he manages to win (most states are winner takes all) enough states to have 50+% of the electors. if they fail to win the state they get nothing, if they fail to have a majority of the electors the vote goes to the house of reps. and since the HOR consist mostly of democraps and repubicans the votes for the third party are pretty much just thrown out.
dont think that something like this hasn't happen. the election of 1824, jackson had the most votes, but lost. the vote went to the HOR with the top three vote getters on the ballot ( the forth place finisher was discarded) and the third had suffered a stroke and stood no chance, so it was basically down to Jackson and J.Q. Adams..... despite having the people vote more for jackson, the HOR chose Adams.... no suprise four years later the got his proverbial political ass beatin by Jackson.
1824 1876 1888 were all fuck ups... we got it right for the next 112 year then 2000..... opps we fucked up AGAIN
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: I'm voting Mickey Mouse in '08 [Re: johnm214]
#8842553 - 08/28/08 03:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: instant runoff voting is a very good idea.
It doesn't seem like anyone legitimatly interested in democracy could be against it, however; it seems that it would hurt the powers that be.
I'm all for it in theory
Indeed, it's one of those things that you have to get right the first time, since no matter what you choose, a whole political system will spring up around it and will resist any change.
That said, there's the possibility of some smaller states adopting it. Perhaps NH.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: I'm voting Mickey Mouse in '08 [Re: zouden]
#8845856 - 08/29/08 02:55 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think you guys have been ignoring the money in this equation. even with these more balanced forms of voting one would be hard pressed to find a green or libertarian seat much less an independent. The money is an immense factor because without money behind it nobody will have heard of some third party more than their already obscure presence.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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