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Invisiblejohnm214
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Loc: Americas
Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #8848832 - 08/29/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


I would not punish doctors if it's prescribed in a way that is appropriate. That may require some changes in federal law





Wow, you mean he'd follow the supreme court's ruling?  Congratulations.  First amendment is a great thing.


Though maybe he was making a statement.  Is he claiming he would allow it to be prescribed or just saying he'd allow it to be recomended pursuant to the current schemes?  If he's not proposing changes, it really seams like he's ignroant of the issue or hopes we are.  Marijuana is presently not prescribed in the US in any routing, non study related, manner.

Quote:


“Obama supports the rights of states and local governments to make this choice - though he believes medical marijuana should be subject to (U.S. Food and Drug Administration) regulation like other drugs,” LaBolt said. He said the FDA should consider how marijuana is regulated under federal law, while leaving states free to chart their own course.




Yes, and the Food and Drug adminstration doesn't allow marijuana to be used, and currently has the authority to so order, so how does this mean anything?  Is he going to reclassify marijuana?  Or just ignore the controled substance act, and hope everyone else does to?

Nevertheless, ignoring the food and drug administration caveat, he has not said he'd do what you said he'd do.  Saying he supports states rights to do  something doesn't mean he'd allow it, and with the fda caveat it is a nonstatement- essentially saying he's advocated federalism in this one area, but not really, and wouldn't do shit cuz the FDA doesn't allow marijuana's use.  Great, he'd like states to have their powers restored but won't do shit to make it happen.

Quote:


LaBolt also said Obama would end U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration raids on medical marijuana suppliers in states with their own laws.




I've never heard of this.  Who is LaBolt and where can I find this statement documented?
Quote:



On August 21, during a campaign event in Nashua, New Hampshire, Sen. Obama was asked by GSMM volunteer and seriously ill Nashua resident Scott Turner if he would end the federal raids on medical marijuana patients like him. Sen. Obama replied: "I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users. It's not a good use of our resources."





Irrelevant and it seems like a nonissue.  Are medical marijuana users currently prosecuted?  I don't know of any, and even if they are the number is surely such a low quantity that it is a non issue and intended to decieve, if not simply a feel-good response to a stupid question.

Either way it has nothing to do with what I disputed of your comment.

Quote:


Less then a month later, on August 13, while at a town hall meeting in Nashua, New Hampshire, he was asked by GSMM staffers if he agreed with the 81% of New Hampshire Democrats who believe that the federal government should end the raids on medical marijuana patients and caregivers. Sen. Obama responded: "You know, it's really not a good use of Justice Department resources."


 

Could you source this?  I can't find it.

Either way, again, are you aware of prosecutions against patients and caregivers?  I'm not- raids against them for being caregivers and patients, and not manufactureres or traffickers.  Nonetheless, state definitions aside, I'm not aware of this happening, and in any event it is not the issue I challenged you to prove.  Absent some indication that caregivers was to be interpreted under state law in cali, this has nothing to do with anything at contention.


Quote:


On July 21, 2007 at a town hall meeting in Manchester, New Hampshire, a GSMM staffer asked Sen. Obama if he would end the raids. Sen. Obama replied: "The Justice Department going after sick individuals using this as a palliative instead of going after serious criminals makes no sense."




Okay, what is the relevance?

1.  Has the justice department gone after sick individuals as obama said, or is he just making the issue emotional?

2.  What does this have to do with what I challenged you to prove?

Quote:


During a town hall meeting in Laconia, New Hampshire, on June 2, 2007, Sen. Obama was asked if he would continue the federal raids on medical marijuana patients and their caregivers. Sen. Obama responded: "I don't think that should be a top priority of us, raiding people who are using ... medical marijuana. With all the things we've got to worry about, and our Justice Department should be doing, that probably shouldn't be a high priority."




So 1:  Not relevant to what I asked you to prove;

2.  Repeats the seeming lie, I can't find any evidence anyways, that patients are being arrested for using marijuana by the feds, and makes him seem like a liar for stating this without providing evidence to support it.

3.  Doesn't even say he'd change anything, but rather make medical marijuana raids not a priority when they target sick folks.  Okay, how is that a change?  Since I"ve never heard of any case like this currently, this seems like more bullshit emotionalism.


00000



So it sum, Obama continuosly refers to medical marijuana patients as being arrested and raided, when I'm not aware they are, and obama has never shown that they are.  In any event this is not related to what I asked you to demonstrate.


Quote:

I'm TIRED of people not knowing his fucking positions. You think people would do a little of their own fucking research rather than pretending he has no positions:





Calm down man.  I'm quite informed on his positions on this issue, and I find his conduct to be highly duplicitous.  He continuolly says he won't raid patients, when I don't even think that happens much, if ever, by the DEA (I'm talking about people who use marijuana for medical conditions not folks who grow it).

So on that he seems to be playing off the ignorance of the audience in acting like he'll stop bad man bush from arresting sick folks.


The only quote that had anything to do with what I actually challenged you on is the following:

Quote:


LaBolt also said Obama would end U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration raids on medical marijuana suppliers in states with their own laws.





Where can I find this?


Given that it is a recent, alleged, comitment, I cannot fathom why you'd so explosivly claim I'm ignorant of his position when it either seems like you hoped I wouldn't notice that the rest of your quotes were pure fluff and emotionalism or express Obama's ignorance that patients are not being raided by the DEA for being patients, nor are caregivers to my knowledge, in any signifigant number.

While I'd imagine some jackass got raided at some point who was also a patient, I'm not talking about these folks as they surely got raided not for use and possesion but for distribution and manufacture, and the later is what I challenged you on.


So calm down, and why is obama insinuating that there is some huge problem with sick pot smokers being arrested that comply with their state law?


I won't say its never happened, but I've never heard of it.  Can you?  Or is obama just ignorant or feeding off folks ignorance and emotional aversion to sick folks being arrested- whether or not it happens.  (again I'm talking about folks raided/arrested because they were administering marijuana to themselves  pursuant to state law and were sick)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: johnm214]
    #8852606 - 08/30/08 02:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

bump for those who  don't know obama's fucking positions on not raiding medical marijuana dispensiaries...


Still waiting for demonstration of that fact, such as a source for the only, recent, statement relevant to that topic.


Since you paraphrased I don't know where to get this, and sure haven't heard about it.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: johnm214]
    #8853137 - 08/30/08 05:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, I found something I hadn't seen before:

Quote:

Would you stop the DEA's raids on Oregon medical marijuana growers?
I would because I think our federal agents have better things to do, like catching criminals and preventing terrorism. The way I want to approach the issue of medical marijuana is to base it on science, and if there is sound science that supports the use of medical marijuana and if it is controlled and prescribed in a way that other medicine is prescribed, then it's something that I think we should consider.





from some paper

http://wweek.com/editorial/3427/10974/


I guess this is a commitment?


He says "I would" and then says he'd require it to be prescribed and controlled et cet and then it should be considered.


How can you say "I would" and then say "we should consider" in the next breath?  One or the other.


And since marijuana isn't prescribed in the US routinely anywhere, I don't see what he's talking about.


Is he just ignorant?  Does he not know that marijuana is not prescribed and that was the very reason the supreme court ruled the DEA/Feds couldn't revoke licensure from doctors that recomend it to patients?


I guess this is a commitment, and I guess I am wrong and he has commited- despite me never hearing about this before, but I wonder what the rest of the quote is about? Its a yes and no answer, dude.  And putting in that shit about prescriptions and controls really throws me off, plus the "consider it" remark.


1.  It is not prescribed with any frequency and not outside of studies to my knowledge.
2.  It is not controlled like other drugs w/ medical use cuz it is not approved by the FDA or the DEA.


So will he use these wiggle words to get out of it?

Either way, I could imagine a much more meaningful response than "I would" followed by bullshit evidencing either misunderstanding or deceit.

Anyone else have a take on this?


I'd note that other commentators have not taken Obama's statement to be a commitment to anything, and have infered his wiggle room words to amount to a nonstatement.  WHile I don't know if I buy this, his commitment was clear, I wonder if Obama will actually follow through on the "I would" or defer to the bullshit he said later?

Quote:

I'll note that Obama neither pledged nor refused to do anything. He merely said he would review the science. I'm looking forward to debate on this issue, and hope it can be done maturely, without hyperbole or stale war-on-drugs rhetoric.




http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/usa/2008/05/obama_on_medical_marijuana.html

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: johnm214]
    #8860025 - 09/01/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

.


--------------------
.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:16 PM)

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InvisibleAhronZombi
AhronZombi


Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: MrSinister]
    #8873139 - 09/03/08 06:45 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MrSinister said:
Quote:

POLAR0ID said:
Ron Paul can suck my non-dick.

Anyhow, you haven't been duped, you've just finally begun to understand that perhaps.. juuuuuust perhaps, a little reform is needed in so so so many government policies.




Reform on which polices though? Hell i have gone though allot of Barry's speeches, and he speaks about change allot.  Yet he doesn't explain what he is planing to change. 

To quote Hilary Clinton (My senator whom i would have gladly voted for even though i am republican, because she out of the three of them is on the right track.) "Obama is an empty suite."




I dont know what kind of attention span you have but i think he made a very good explination of what he would do and how. This is ultimately what made my apathy cave.

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: AhronZombi]
    #8875748 - 09/04/08 08:12 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Zappa the annenburg bullshit will go no where.  Billy Ayers was a terrorist like George Washington was a terrorist.  For christ sakes, they even called the places they bombed ahead of time.  Only one person was ever killed by the weather underground, and it was a janitor who was accidentally around and didn't know they were bombing.

When this country needs a real revolution it will be people like Billy Ayers that will save your ass while you deny there is a problem and remain a tory.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: xFrockx]
    #8877671 - 09/04/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Huh?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineOutLaw Shroomer
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Registered: 08/31/08
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Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: zouden]
    #8877683 - 09/04/08 03:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Screw Obama.... he's the Anti-Christ.... :protest:

If you don't believe me just look.........is that not him?  theres proof.... the bastard. :whack:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: xFrockx]
    #8877795 - 09/04/08 04:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Zappa the annenburg bullshit will go no where.  Billy Ayers was a terrorist like George Washington was a terrorist.  For christ sakes, they even called the places they bombed ahead of time.  Only one person was ever killed by the weather underground, and it was a janitor who was accidentally around and didn't know they were bombing.




Obviously a capitalist tool.  Good riddance to bad....something.  I guess.
Quote:



When this country needs a real revolution it will be people like Billy Ayers that will save your ass while you deny there is a problem and remain a tory.




If I want Billy the Bomber to save my ass I will be quite sure to ask him to do so.  Until such time, he can assume that I will be quite happy to shoot him and his friends if they should bring their shit to my street.  I may even make an effort to check out some of my other less reconstructed friends' streets should they feel I can get a clear shot off.


--------------------

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OfflineProf. Astro
acirebma


Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 4,084
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
Re: Go Obama! Have i been duped? [Re: AhronZombi]
    #8877912 - 09/04/08 04:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

So sealing the deal to you means using quotes out of context and emotional manipulation?


--------------------
:hanky:

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