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OfflineMagicius
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Less-hassle - LC- TEK
    #7990164 - 02/07/08 03:37 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here is my LC-TEK. I've been making LC like this for 8 months, because I had always had trouble with caramelizing honey, even *with* a high temperature thermometer...

So here it is:

1) pre sterilize your jars in the PC. (empty jars, rinsed clean)

2) while still hot, remove them from the PC and place them on your work area.

3) whip out a measuring jug (I store mine in a very clean container (my "LC-KIT"), honey jar, and a syringe (I've gouged/ "poked" a larger hole into the mouth of the syringe, so it can suck up the honey easy; that way you can measure *Exactly* your honey %.

4) pour boiling water into your jug (mine is 1 L).

5) open the honey, suck up 30 ml (my honey LC's are 3%- works perfect for me)- after you sucked up some hot water out the 1 liter jug, so that the syringe is hot and helps to melt the honey so it gets sucked up easier. Squirt into the 1 liter jug filled with freshly boiling water. Stir with the syringe extended.

6) remember, your LC jars where presterilized just before, and are still. hot. Remove jar lid (probably still steaming hot), and pour LC into jar. Close lid.

7) Wait for jars to cool. inoculate through inoculation port. I inoculate using an alcohol swab on the port, also i stick the needle in while red hot.


PURPOSe of my LC TEK -method:

I don't pasteurize my lc jars with the nutrients . I just presterilize the jars, and mix the honey with rapidly boiling water and pour that into the still-hot pre sterilized jars.

This has worked 100% for me for over 8 months now.

I just prefer doing that rather than timing say 15-20 min. with a high temperature thermometer; its totally unnecessary, this method I've PROVEN to myself, that:

** mixing honey (3%, i.e 30 ml to 1000 ml water) into rapidly boiling water and tossin' that into still hot pre sterilized jars, is sufficient to create totally viable, non-contammed LC...

I've had about a 95% success rate with LC's created this way; that contaminated 5% was from jars where I didn't flame the needle, or even in some cases, was so careless with my procedure, that I unscrewed the lids and inoculated openly, no flamed needle, no glove box, nothing; and even then sometimes, they came out pretty fine...
but of course I don't recommend that. But I'm just sayin that so you understand the angle of my attitude about this: I try and make things easier, I mean I don't like the hassles associated with some teks, like for instance i never use a glove box coz' i find it uncomfortable for my arms... and because i dont use a glovebox, i never do grain to grain, I'm an LC man, and as long as the lc's are isolated, never exposed, itworks perfect, no HEPA, no glovebox, at all.

Like I said, I try and get away with as much as possible. And I do.
With LC's created using this TEK, i knock up WBS, by flamin the needle, alcohol swabbing my inoculation ports, and injecting with a red hot needle into the RTV silicon port, then hold the alcohol swab on the port as I inject my LC into the WBS. It works fine for me. In fact I swear by the LC-tek, its solved the high temp thermometer and caramelization troubles I've had. I dunno some people prolly think that it isn't sufficient sterility, but after 8 months of doing it this way, i can assure you, its enough.


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OfflineMagicius
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Magicius]
    #7990192 - 02/07/08 03:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'm just wondering if you LC guys, use a glove box while innoculating with WBS/ grain with LC? I think it may be working for me with no glove box coz i inject with a red hot needle, AND, use an alcohol swab.

But of course I've only been growin WBS cakes, i haven't spawned to "bulk" (pasteurized) poo, prolly because previously i had always failed at that, but thats DEFINITELY coz I had been STERILIZING and not pasteurizin the poo, I think...
anyways...


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OfflineMagicius
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Magicius]
    #7990357 - 02/07/08 04:32 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

and soon one of these days, I will post dirty-mo-fo-TEK too, that is, dirty me, with dirty clothes, no shower, I only wash my hands and forearms, with no glovebox, no HEPA. and well...
I have still to create TEKS for sporeprinting under such conditions;
for one I would sterilize little tiny jars and bottles and replace the bottlecaps with mushroom caps. Theres a hole in the lil jars lil with rtv, so I can inject sterile water and shake the jar up when i want a spore syringe.
so that the mushroom caps print directly into an enclosed container, i.e cover the mouth of the jar while printing; then after printing i just quickly replace it with the bottle cap, and later inject sterile water into the port if i want a spore syringe...

i mean i feel that it really is possible to make a TEK for everything even while I'm wearing filthy clothes and not showering, but only washing my hand and arms at best, with No HEPA or glove box.

And ill let you guys know when I've got it down to a T: that is:

Magicius's Dirtiest Laziest Fool Proof Cultivation TEKs Compendium.

I intend to do sporeprinting in the abovementioned way, that is, sporeprinting/ syringemaking in one TEK. I mean why would you print onto a flat surface from which you would have to remove a cover/ cup, and expose the spores, and *THEN* scrape it into a jar of sterile water when they can fall DIRECTLY into a sterile little bottle, with the mushroom cap replacing the bottle cap temporarily. No extraneous exposure to the atmosphere is necessary at all, i mean I'm talking about lil bottles that have small caps/lids, about the size of mushrooms, so the mushroom cap totally covers the jar lip, prints into the lil jar/bottle, and then is replaced with the jar cap after printing. and since the jar is dry, you can save the now bottle spore-"print" for use later, by adding sterile water.

I mean i think it is better than printing to say tinfoil, then scrapin that into a jar, then sucking that out.

just get tiny jars with caps the size of mushroom caps, or lil medicine bottles. make RTV port in the middle. and sterilize the lil fuckers. when u cut off your mushroom cap, just place it on the lil bottle as you remove its normal lid/ jar, with mushroom cap... easy as pie. I think that I could create clean enough syringe like this still, without using glove box or hepa. my PURPOSE in this is exactly that:

to be able to create TEKS that prove themselves viable, that dont require hepa or glove box. i.e I'm tryin to figure out little ways to by pass that...

anyways when I have proven results about this printing method, ill post a tek.

i also have some bulk LC ratio teks im workin on/ experimentin with, will post *only* successful, results, so dont hold your breath =]


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InvisibleGretchenmeister
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Magicius]
    #7992557 - 02/07/08 06:35 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I cannot believe you dont actually pc the lc.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #7992599 - 02/07/08 06:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

There are tons of bacterial endospores in honey... this is why you can't give babies honey until they're at least a year old. Clostridium botulinum spores pass through the infant's weakly acidified stomach, colonize the intestines and release the toxin botulin, resulting in infant botulism. You seriously haven't had any contams?


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to one who is striking at the root."
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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Yrat]
    #7992611 - 02/07/08 06:45 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i am glad it works for you but I can not wait for the thread about contaminated lc's with links to this tek


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: tahoe]
    #7992646 - 02/07/08 06:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:



I don't pasteurize my lc jars with the nutrients . I just presterilize the jars, and mix the honey with rapidly boiling water and pour that into the still-hot pre sterilized jars.





Yeah right....


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OfflineMagicius
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: baraka]
    #7997680 - 02/08/08 09:15 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I swear to God, Jesus and the Mother Mary. No fuckin contams and that, Siriusly. U should try it. I am really going for the Super Lazy Tek in my cultivation efforts. Siriusly. Ive started a whoile bunch of experiments/tests today, will post some of those. I just figured, why keep asking the questions that people dont have answers for; test it myself...


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OfflineMagicius
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Magicius]
    #7997707 - 02/08/08 09:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Man I'm really surprised you guys are responding so negatively. at least i know it works.

like i said, the jar i pour the boilin water into along with the honey jar and the syringe, is kept in a lil LC-kit, a very clean plastic container, which I put in another one with some other really clean stuff. However, when I do this, only my hands are washed, I mean i sort of huff and try and hold my breath sometimes, my hair is long and dirty, but I rely on the steam of the boilin water to prevent shit from landin.
but seriously it works. and also coz the presterilized jars are STILL hot, when you throw in the steaming honey mixture, makes it work i think...

im not lyin guys. I've just sort of ZONED IN on this TEK, its just how i do it coz it works and its the easiest way i could find that works, coz I HATE all the little fussy things that mushroom cultivation requires; again, it is my very purpose to obfuscate such necessities, and find loopholes to standard procedures. they do exist - loopholes, if exploited properly according to properly defining exactly what the loop is, allows for lazy ass shit to succeed. im not bein specific, but i will post some teks on some shit that u also think would fail, generally
=]

but seriously, i have had like, non existent contam rates this way.

as long as the presterile jars are still steamin hot while u pour the also steamin shit in, crap cant land on it. and rapidly boiled water stays reasonably hot, long enough, obviously.
I havent had a god damn contam, except when i inoculated by unscrewing the lid, when my lighter was broke and i was too pissed off and annoyed to maintain that critical threshold of culture isolation;
that is the GOLDEN RULE

*CULTURE ISOLATION*

That is my secret formula. apply that concept to however the hell you're doing what you're doing. You *will* come up with simpler ways.

Just review your procedures while assaying it with the principle of culture isolation, coz thats all important. fuck im babblin again.

but yz it fuckin works, though sometime when i dont have a shirt on some boilin water splashes on my tummy and that fuckin is sick shit man


Edited by Magicius (02/08/08 09:25 PM)


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OfflineMagicius
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: tahoe]
    #7997776 - 02/08/08 09:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

TAHOE u mentioned contam links to this tek? -we'll have to wait and see. if this doesnt work for someone else there must be another variable involved, or maybe there is some different detail to their doing it, however simple it is. I mean if you do it the way i typed it, if you understood it, then hey. bombs away. This tek is my daily bread, it keeps me g(r)owin =]

did i forget to mention the honey sucking syringe, the measure jug AND the honey jar, are stored in a plastic tub, my "LC kit". very clean. the honey jar is very clean on the outside, too, and is placed right next to the measuring jug from which steam rises as u pour the water, this upward air current i believe prevents contams also from landin in the honey while the lid is off.
but i dont live4 by that, sometimes the honey is a bit further away, and contams could possibly have landed but the lc was fine as ever...

i also dont add an agitation device. i dont find it necessary. i swirl like once every two or three days.

i would really like to see how someone gets contams using this procedure. it will definitely be introduced by some other variable. siriusly. one annoying thing is sucking the lc out though, when i suck the lc out, i tilt the jar - the RTV port is on the opposite side of the lid than the gas port; i cut filter discs into tiny polygons, and rtv em on. when i suck lc out, sometimes some bubbles from outside the jar slips into the lc when i make syringes out the lc jars. No flow hood, no glove box, dirty clothes, dirty hair, stinky breath... still, it seems to work, I'll be damned, you know, airbubbles and all. I do mostly try and stick the needle all the way in so that the base of the needle squeezes into the rtv port to prevent bubbles getting in, but they still tend to slip in. It doesn't seem to matter though, I'm still waiting for a contam from an inoculation where i didnt go bonkers and just unscrew the lids and openly squirt into the jars without flamin the needle. That mostly doesnt work. I dont know why I did that a couple times, my lighter was broke. i was annoyed, so i thought, fuck it, i dont know, sometimes i just lose the entire purpose of what Im doing. - so trust me, dont remove lids and just squirt, or drink a bottle of whiskey and think you've sterilized your workroom, and can do open air grain to grains because you don't see any contaminates... yz, i can get retarded like that.
funny enuf, i was dum enuf to think back then, after 'sterilizing' (the lab) with a bottle of whisky in my bum, that I had done a good job. haha

but again, it is certainly my intend to make teks that border on THIS side of CULTURE ISOLATION. Laziness = economy of action.

Dirty Bastard Tek to be posted soon.


Edited by Magicius (02/08/08 09:43 PM)


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Magicius]
    #7998488 - 02/09/08 01:04 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

No flow hood, no glove box, dirty clothes, dirty hair, stinky breath... still, it seems to work, I'll be damned, you know, airbubbles and all. -magicius




lol, dirty bastard tek.


Edited by shevanel (02/09/08 01:06 AM)


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OfflineP.Menace
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: shevanel]
    #7998532 - 02/09/08 01:20 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I just make up some of Tahoe's Lids w/filters ( I know he is not the origonal poster of these, i just cant remember names or threads) and use either 1% malt extract or for really clear LC's Stevia leaf Extract. PC for 30-45 min @15psi.
The stevia has shown, to me anyways, the potential for some wicked LC's, i have one thats almost grown too thick to shake as opposed to a fully colonized malt LC which just "seems" thick.


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OfflineElPolloDiablo
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: Magicius] * 1
    #8383232 - 05/09/08 11:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Magicius said:
but I rely on the steam of the boilin water to prevent shit from landin.





I'm not trying to piss in your Cheerios or anything, but I feel the need to point out to any fellow newbie like myself that's starting out and reads this tek, that hot water steam (or even hot air from an oven as I've seen in other posts) does not prevent something from landing on what's generating it.

As heat rises, it displaces cooler air, forcing it down - also know as convection. So as some air is going up, it's forcing other air down to replace it - that's Physics 101. Heat an open jar and put a lit cigarette next to the lip and you'll see that the smoke is actually sucked INTO the jar, and then out of it, because the heated air leaving the jar is displacing the cooler air right around the jar, creating a negative pressure in the jar that sucks in the cool air, which is then heated and sent upwards until it cools and dissipates back down.

I'd wager you're either very lucky, or you live in a home (or work in an area) with very little in the way of contaminates. As someone who used to grow bacterium and fungi cultures in a pathology lab, I can tell you from experience the best way to avoid contams is a positive flow hood with HEPA filters. If you're using one of those, or a similar home done setup, the only real chance you have of contams is via the inoculation point, the needle, or your hands (and yes, your body is covered head to toe with more bacterium and fungal spores and yeast then you would really want to imagine).

I'm mildly stoned, so I'll elaborate a little more on why a flow hood works and heat doesn't. A flow hood does not create convection the same way heat does. A flow hood is providing it's own near sterile air via positive flow - i.e. it's not displacing the surrounding air, it's recycling it through filters. So while the flow hood is forceably pushing air in one direction, the heat source causing convection is trying to heat ALL the air it can and, as such, it draws the cooler air in and pushes the hotter air further away until the heat source cools to ambient temperature, or the air in the room you're in has equalized.

So be careful, and observe the hell out of sterile technique. I've seen first hand some of the cultures you can get from contams floating in the air, and what they can do to your body if introduced at adequate concentrations, and it's not something to play around with. Aspergillosis pops to mind. You can have it for years and not know it, and then one day you're sick as a dog and if the doctor doesn't do a chest xray soon enough, you will very likely die, and will also suffer permanent damage to your lungs. The few times I came across this with my old job, it was ALWAYS the same story from the doctor "Oh, we thought it was pneumonia, or we thought it was cancer, or we thought it was this, that, or the other" and probably 7 out of 10 times by the time I was able to come up with a valid culture to confirm Aspergillosis, the patient was already dead or had lost upwards of 70% lung capacity for life. Keep in mind that the fungi that causes this is in the air you're breathing right now, just you're body has adapted to it - but a significant enough whiff of it (from a contamed cake for example) could cause an infection in your lungs that will likely go misdiagnosed for some time and cost your dearly.

And with that, it's time to go get some dinner.


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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: ElPolloDiablo]
    #8383244 - 05/09/08 11:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

While it may work for you, others might not be willing to take the chance. A lot of work goes into this hobby, so most of don't take chances, especially when it is something as simple as that.


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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: HoleSnype]
    #8837955 - 08/27/08 09:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I've actually done the same thing Magicus. Funny, I don't sterilize anything. I take random mason jars, put what looks like a good amount of honey following the "one spoon per jar" thing but often I get the ratio way off. No glove box, just clean hands, sometimes latex gloves. Plenty of peroxide just in case.

I've never seen any contamination this way. I've had incomplete mushrooms forming inside the liquid cultures before when I poured the tap water and right amount of honey into the jar, mixed it, then poured the gill pieces in and set it in a cabinet. That wasn't dark enough I guess...

I'm actually more interested in experimenting with the fungus and finding new easy ways to do it. I don't care about actually growing them as long as I find that I *can* grow them and do it easily without sterilizing anything, or sterilizing as little as possible.

I've had mold growing in my house many times and the air isn't ever clean or still. But, no contamination in liquid cultures with honey.

It's always solid substrate that gives me contamination. Manure seems least contamination prone, cause it's natural for cubensis. The only problem with manure I've had was bacteria since I won't pasturize, but like I said I just do experiments once in a while and never actually grow the mushrooms myself. I just hunt them when I want to eat them.

I read that honey actually has antibacterial properties, one reason being that it releases hydrogen peroxide in solution with water. I've read that on shroomery and other sites. I also read that erythritol has antibacterial properties. I added a spoon of erythritol to some old gills in a honey water solution that didn't seem to be germinating and it seems like the erythritol might've made it germinate and also grow much faster than I've ever seen.

Probably just a coincidence though. At one point years ago I had several pounds of the fungus in a tank, as usual no sterilization aside from cleaning the inside of the tank really well. Mushrooms started growing on the large mass of fungus. I disposed of it because I don't know how to make solid substrates work without sterilizing yet, and I know that you can't get many fruits without solid substrate.

This reminds me a lot of the russian guy that didn't sterilize his liquid cultures. I read his topic before reading this one. Pretty cool to know other people experiment with this too.

When I obtain new spores I want to try hydrating dried manure with honey and erythritol solution and see if I can inoculate and grow that without contaminations.

I wouldn't recommend trying this to beginners until they're experienced. I think if an experienced person creates a tek that works well, then maybe you could recommend that. But it needs to be proven by the experienced people. I was looking for certain plants that might be antibacterial and not harm the mushroom fungus, no luck with that.

Also, the erythritol is naturally in mushrooms so I figured that wouldn't hurt them at all, but it has zero calories so it really must've been a coincidence that the fungus grew faster with it.


Edited by InTheRainySeason (08/27/08 09:24 PM)


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InvisibleInTheRainySeason
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Re: Less-hassle - LC- TEK [Re: InTheRainySeason]
    #8838760 - 08/27/08 11:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

ElPolloDiablo , shit, that's scary. Makes me think I should be a lot more careful. I already knew about that kind of contamination but I completely forgot. I need to save all the info in this topic.


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