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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Why is this so frightning?
    #883151 - 09/13/02 11:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If I had a nickel for every thread that turned into a debate about the existence of God....well you know the rest.

My question is this: For those who are nonbelievers, why is it so frightning to you to think that there are those who believe without seeing? Aside from the religious fanatics that try to persecute nonbelievers, why are there so many insults lingering around for peaceful unobtrusive believers.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I am a believer but anyone who has read my posts knows that I don't try force my view on them, only attempt to explain it with some clarity (sorry if I failed). So why are there some that are offended at the very notion of faith (believeing without seeing)?


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: chemkid]
    #883177 - 09/13/02 11:58 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

OK, for the sake of your argument I will put aisde the many people in my life who have done grave harm with thier beliefs

So why are there some that are offended at the very notion of faith (believeing without seeing)?

I will explain as carefully as possible.

If there is no empirical evidence, then you are only believing based on the words of those who have come before you. Otherwise what prompted your views?

Now if it were possible to come to your conclusion without enculturation, then all would be in agreement and there would not be 10,000 varieties of religious faith.

If all were correct, the world would not be in such disharmony. If only one is correct then the other 9,999 varieties are wrong - or perhaps they are all mistaken

To those of us who are rationalists, it appears as though you are buying into an unsubstantiated fairy tale.

Though I have asked many times, I have yet to get a straight answer like most of my piercing questions, "What EXACTLY is it that you have faith in?" A book riddled with inconsitencies and inaccuracies? A feeling? An experience?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: Swami]
    #883195 - 09/14/02 12:13 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You did a great job at stating why it is that you don't believe and I respect that; but my question is why is it offensive if "I" am a believer? (again, assuming I am not a fanatic that persecutes you for not believeing). Let's assume for a moment that it is indeed a tall tale that I believe in.....is it not my choice? I should be free of persecution just as you should be for not believeing.

As for the inconsistencies you speak of in the "book"......if you're referring to the Bible, you will find it is actually one of the most historically accurate books in existence. (I know.....I know....it still doesn't prove God.....that isn't my purpose though)

I wasn't sure if your last question was rhetorical or not....about why I believe in this tale. If you truely want to know then I will spill it otherwise I will CAN it :smile: 


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: chemkid]
    #883223 - 09/14/02 12:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You did a great job at stating why it is that you don't believe and I respect that; but my question is why is it offensive if "I" am a believer?

Because the real-world is not a hypothetical situation in a philosophical discussion.

Prohibition is largely sponsored by the Christian Moral Majority, yet I find it totally amoral to cage another human simply because he does not agree with you. It is generally repugnant to have someone else's views shoved down one's throat because the other is SO TOTALLY sure that they have the moral high ground.

If you belong to a church group, do you hide your illegal fungal activities from them? If so, why? Afraid of their judgement and lack of understanding? If the answer is yes, then you understand me more than you previously have admitted.

To sum up, I personally don't care what you believe, though I try but cannot understand. What bothers me is when self-righteous hypocrites (even if not you specifically) try to interfere with my life.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: Swami]
    #883232 - 09/14/02 12:45 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

ding...ding....round three :grin:

It sounds like we actually agree on something (maybe there is a God :shocked:)

I agree, people shouldn't be interfering in your life for not holding their views. I am the same way. I don't particularly care for the christians that shout on street corners telling me I will go to hell.

As for my fungal activities....I don't share them with my church, for I have no church. I feel that 90% of organized religion is a sham. (you may reacall my post some time ago about not judging a religion by the evils of man). Anyway, I think the purity of christianity (most religions for that matter) has been tainted by the greed of so called enlightened evangelists (bless you Jim Bakker). I keep the Bible and my heart as my religion. I don't need someone telling me how I am a sinner for the things I do; which is why I don't do that to others. 


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: chemkid]
    #883713 - 09/14/02 10:03 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Let's assume for a moment that it is indeed a tall tale that I believe in.....is it not my choice? I should be free of persecution just as you should be for not believeing.




Fair enough.

In reply to:

As for the inconsistencies you speak of in the "book"......if you're referring to the Bible, you will find it is actually one of the most historically accurate books in existence.





This is not true. I can say with certainty no homo sapien ever lived to the age of 800, just to start. It is a good book, but largely a work of fiction.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: chemkid]
    #883725 - 09/14/02 10:10 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Do you think christianity has done more harm than good?
seriously.. for every man it gives hope, it probably also completely blinds another man..




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Offlinedogkisser
E victim

Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 324
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: Grav]
    #883731 - 09/14/02 10:15 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Christianity you speak of.................i believe...............in.......looking to human excrement...............for......the......answers..................patterns...in..poo.........hold.................the.........answers too the..............Universe!........!.......


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Once the doors of perception have been unlocked, Never again can they be locked, Only restricted..if one knows how...
http://www.angelfire.com/clone/hallucinogen/index.html

Drugs - Life


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Registered: 09/09/02
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: dogkisser]
    #883840 - 09/15/02 07:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

it seems like your original question is about belief in god without regard to any specific religion. it seems like all of the answers to your question have attempted to explain why religion is bad. i think one can believe in god without being religious. although i don't really feel like i have any viable belief in god i do not dismiss the idea completely. my question for those who claim to know of god is this: of what use is it? does it solve the riddle? if it solves the riddle then you have no need to convince others of your point of view. anyone who tries to convert someone else to his way of thinking doesn't do so out of benevolence or philanthropy, he does it because he wants something. if you're so sure, shut up.

if it's for sale it probably isn't worth buying.


--------------------
All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: vaporbrains]
    #884262 - 09/15/02 10:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This is why it's important to read the question boys and girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I specifically stated that I was trying to convert no one and that ideally it should be the case that believers don't force their ideas upon others. Never once did I say it will answer your riddles or make your life better. It is good for me....the end! My question was if I am a believer, who respects your choice in beliefs, why is it so wretchid a thought for others that I am a believer?

So before you tell someone to shut up....learn to read. Peace


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: chemkid]
    #884841 - 09/16/02 05:50 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

did you read MY post you mental degenerate?

i clearly agree with you:

it seems like your original question is about belief in god without regard to any specific religion. it seems like all of the answers to your question have attempted to explain why religion is bad.

i wasn't telling you to shut up. learn to read, ass.


--------------------
All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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OfflineWorldRaven
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #885920 - 09/16/02 04:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This is not true. I can say with certainty no homo sapien ever lived to the age of 800, just to start. It is a good book, but largely a work of fiction.

not to say that I agree with the concept or the book itself but...........Where is the proof on which you draw your conclusions about the lifespan of ancient men?



Inline with topic: It is my opinion that non-believers are not afraid to beleive in a "god" or other beings, but rather they are "realists" and base beleifs in fact and record as opposed to faith and feeling. A non beleiver (in your context)may say: how can I believe in something that holds no proof of its existance? A beleiver (also in the above context) may say: Just cuz there isn't any hard evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.....it is beyond physical proof..............

Beleifs are based on individual observations, thus the multitude of belief systems...............


--------------------
I created the world................
Now I must create it anew........


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: WorldRaven]
    #885949 - 09/16/02 04:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Nicely put.

I wouldn't call myself a "believer" though. I am more of an "entertainer of possibilities"...

I don't disbelieve something just because it's not based on known facts nor do I believe something just because it is based on known facts. Well, I try not to... These so called facts are just individual observations agreed upon by the majority, and we all know that the majority has been wrong before.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: WorldRaven]
    #886037 - 09/16/02 05:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

not to say that I agree with the concept or the book itself but...........Where is the proof on which you draw your conclusions about the lifespan of ancient men?




I can know something beyond a reasonable doubt without hard proof. I can also say with certainty that there isn't a family of minature unicorns breeding in my hamper, but I didn't just go check. I just reject the assertion that "the Bible is one of the most historically accurate books in existence." The 800 year thing is something I just pulled off the top of my head to illustrate the inherent silliness in describing the Bible as a historically accurate book. A "historically accurate" book would, in my mind, be one whose assertions are supported by, or at least fall in line with scientific fact, and not one whose assertions completely defy all currently accepted anthropological theories.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: Swami]
    #886123 - 09/16/02 05:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In due time I will explain.


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Offlinejayson
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Registered: 08/07/02
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Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: chemkid]
    #887135 - 09/17/02 03:41 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Why are people threatened by those who have a belief in god.  :confused: As soon as you admit that you belief in god, it's assumed that that belief is a catholic belief. Your seen as a blind follower of dogmatic bullshit. The catholic church, is after all the most dominant religion in our culture. With the claim that it is the one true path to god. A lie if i ever herd one. It is a most powerful oppressor, which has committed atrocities in the name of god. Can you blame a person that has no belief in god for being threatened, by what they see as being a part of such an organisation.  :mad:

But just because most religions are a perversion of the truth doesn't mean there is no god. :ooo:  The only way is your own way.  :smile:
 


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InvisibleSclorch
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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: jayson]
    #887562 - 09/17/02 08:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Well then jayson... you're one of the lucky few people I'll allow to believe in God and get away with it. :wink:

Actually, I pretty much only have an issue with dogmatic beliefs about God.  Even if you have no religion... you can still have dogma.  I never knock a well-grounded person (even if I disagree). 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Why is this so frightning? [Re: Sclorch]
    #887570 - 09/17/02 08:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

dogma

karma

catma

Yep, I think that about says it all.

Obscure enough?


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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