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Offlineisaacein
exp(ix) = cosx + isinx


Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 1,141
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs
    #8826093 - 08/25/08 05:21 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Hello all,
I could have posted this elsewhere but I think I'm more likely to get good, informed responses here :smile:.

I think most people here would agree that the psychedelic experience, under certain conditions, can greatly stimulate thought and the creative process.

Mathematics are a field in which "thinking outside the box" is always very important. When faced with a new problem, known methods are often insufficient. There are many unsolved problems in mathematics today that an eight year old could understand. When such hard problems are solved, the solutions are often puzzling and hard to grasp because they use new and unexplored ideas. Galois, for instance, solved a long-standing problem but it took over a hundred years for people to understand what he had done (he is now considered a genius).

So my question is : how have, or could, psychedelic drugs help give birth to advances in mathematics? I know that many mathematicians of the 60's and 70's experimented with psychedelic drugs in their youth but I don't believe the practice to be very widespread today. Certain fields of mathematics (such as the study of fractals! :grin:) were stimulated, or even created, during this period of experimentation.

Are there any mathematicians out there who believe that psychedelics can help the advance of science through stimulation of abnormal though processes? I haven't yet tried to study math while tripping but I can't imagine a small dose of 2C-I would do harm.

Feedback? Ideas?

Cheers :heart:


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Formula: 0

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: isaacein]
    #8826134 - 08/25/08 05:30 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Im no mathematician, but I dont think psychedelics would help with mathematics at all.  Well, maybe if you take them and change your perspective then attack a problem later while sober maybe.  But studying math while tripping?  I cant even formulate a thought while tripping.:tongue:

Generally speaking, I would conject that psychedelics and drugs in general do not help in math or science.  The most brilliant people in these fields are often quite strait edge.

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OfflineHighTek
A FunkyPhoenician
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Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 1,091
Loc: In your pants.
Last seen: 1 year, 7 days
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: DieCommie]
    #8826384 - 08/25/08 06:18 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
The most brilliant people in these fields are often quite strait edge.




Agreed. They are naturally messed up and live in their own heads anyway.

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OfflineCepheus
Balance
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Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: isaacein]
    #8826489 - 08/25/08 06:35 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Everytime I figure out the answer, I spoon out half way through recollecting the previous moment of utter brilliance and forget what I'm doing.

It happens during that bit where I can't talk, only grunt basic words and instructions, so attempting to communicate the previous realisation is nigh on impossible :frown:.


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"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: isaacein]
    #8828061 - 08/25/08 10:53 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Most creative mathematical leaps of insight tend to occur within the subconscious--when queried, the mathematician typically has no ready explanation for the logical leap of inference that lead to the great discovery.  Psychedelics in this way can definitely boost one's potential for intuition and mathematical discovery, IMO.  Francis Crick, for example, utilized the creative power of LSD during his discovery of the DNA helix.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: DieCommie]
    #8828524 - 08/26/08 12:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said: The most brilliant people in these fields are often quite strait edge.




Paul Erdos, one of the most brilliant recent mathematicians, took Benzedrine and Ritalin for the last twenty five years of his life.  When he stopped for thirty days due to a bet that he couldn't quit, he successfully refrained--but maintained that the progress of mathematics had been held up due to the wager.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
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Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: deCypher]
    #8829110 - 08/26/08 03:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Methylphenidate and amphetamine are known nootropes. They have very powerful effects on concentration, memory retention and learning so it's not surprising that Erdos benefited from them.

Psychedelics on the other hand reduce your concentration while expanding your imagination - and I think for serious work like mathematics, this is more a hindrance than anything else.

I doubt anyone has made any scientific breakthroughs while on psychedelics that they weren't going to make anyway.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (08/26/08 03:37 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: zouden]
    #8829189 - 08/26/08 04:23 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

> Psychedelics on the other hand reduce your concentration while expanding your imagination

I disagree with such a blanket statement.  Mushrooms certainly reduce my concentration, but LSD is the opposite, allowing me to focus much more deeply than I normally can.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: Seuss]
    #8829244 - 08/26/08 05:19 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I have much more experience with mushrooms, but I found them pretty similar. Admittedly I haven't tried mathematics while on either of them :grin:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblesherm
sherman
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Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 20,498
Loc: Euthanasia
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: zouden]
    #8829557 - 08/26/08 08:21 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i studied for 2 days getting ready to take an exam in my college algebra class.
I ate a handful of mushrooms the evening of the second day of studying.
I could "feel" the math in my head.  I don't know how to really describe it.  The math felt like shapes with some sort of depth to them.  Problems seemed to slide around and over each other in my head and the shapes would kind of fall together in a way that fit, which resulted in an answer.
very strange


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shroomery.
not even once.


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Invisiblesherm
sherman
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Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 20,498
Loc: Euthanasia
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: sherm]
    #8829568 - 08/26/08 08:23 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i wasn't actually doing my homework on mushrooms. :laugh:
this was just what my brain was doing while i was lying on the couch with my eyes closed.


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shroomery.
not even once.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: zouden]
    #8830099 - 08/26/08 10:37 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said: Psychedelics on the other hand reduce your concentration while expanding your imagination - and I think for serious work like mathematics, this is more a hindrance than anything else.




For straight-forward number crunching or working systematically through a proof, I feel psychedelics would be terrible.  But when you're trying to solve a problem, or simply wrap your head around the abstract concepts involved, I've found my creative visualization and ability to somehow intuitively grasp abstruse mathematics enhanced when I was tripping.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: zouden]
    #8830550 - 08/26/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

For me, mushrooms are fairly dissociative.  I have a difficult time trying to focus or concentrate while on them.  For me, LSD is the opposite; I can sit for hours on end locked into the depths of a problem that I am trying to solve.  Granted, we are each different, so I don't expect the two substances to be the same for everybody.  However, it has been a long time since I have taken either, and I may be remembering with fondness rather than accuracy.  :blush:


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinesupra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: Seuss]
    #8838387 - 08/27/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
For me, mushrooms are fairly dissociative.  I have a difficult time trying to focus or concentrate while on them.  For me, LSD is the opposite; I can sit for hours on end locked into the depths of a problem that I am trying to solve.  Granted, we are each different, so I don't expect the two substances to be the same for everybody.  However, it has been a long time since I have taken either, and I may be remembering with fondness rather than accuracy.  :blush:




I also find this.  I have the ability to accomplish more complex tasks while in lsd and can concentrate on a single thought for long periods of time attacking it from all angles.  Mushrooms, on the other hand, really jack me up, where im almost useless.  I cannot even keep a single thought path going if i try, my mind is all over the place, and very foggy.  I haven't taken mushrooms in about a year, but had some LSD not long ago, and discussed the topic of nothing with my wife for hours, it was great.

peace

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Invisibleivi
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: isaacein]
    #8840589 - 08/28/08 08:59 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The hexagon theme represents that whole idea of being able to see reality for what it is, the raw maths or patterns that make everything. We've always been interested in science and maths. Sometimes music or art or drugs can pull back the curtain for you and reveal the Wizard of Oz, so to speak, busy pushing the levers and pressing buttons. That's what maths is, the wizard. It sounds like nonsense but I'm sure a lot of people know what I'm talking about.

Marcus Sandison


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Offline0xYg3n
topdawg
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Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 18,881
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: Seuss]
    #8848111 - 08/29/08 03:45 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I certainly can't do math well when I'm tripping.  Plus I'm usually stoned and directions just seem that much more complicating. :shrug:

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Offlinedelta9
Active Ingredient
Male

Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 5,390
Loc: California
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Pure mathematics and psychedelic drugs [Re: isaacein]
    #8873846 - 09/03/08 08:53 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Crick, one of the discoverers of the structure of DNA, attributed some of his success to small doses of LSD.  I think that is the key here - yes, if you are in a level five ego death trip there might be too much hecticness going on for you to get any serious work done; however, a shorter level one trip might get you just enough outside the box to see something you were missing before.


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delta9

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