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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
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Registered: 06/07/01
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Carlos Castaneda
    #881955 - 09/13/02 01:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I just finished reading Carlos' book on the teachings of Don Juan and the Yaqui way of life.

I had heard rumors that Don Juan is in fact actually made up and the book is basically a load of bull.

does anyone know if there is any validity at all to this book?

--Kremlin


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"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Kremlin]
    #881977 - 09/13/02 01:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Check out my post on the Shroomery Bookclub for a response.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Kremlin]
    #882542 - 09/13/02 06:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Even if Castaneda did make it up, would that change the teaching the book provides? Sometimes I think things are put into stories or parables so that truths can be grasped easier...


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Kremlin]
    #882782 - 09/13/02 08:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Don Juan is made up; the events in the books never happened. That doesn't make it bull; it makes it fiction. Of course there is validity to the books. Regardless of what Alex123 might tell you, there is much to be learned from Castenada's work. A Separate Reality is a good read.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #882875 - 09/13/02 08:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well it goes furthur than that, they are made up and Castenada lied for years saying they wern't made up. That's the problem I have with him. Misrepresenting an indian culture for financial gain.

Sure, you can learn something from it, you can learn something from any book. You just won't learn anything about genuine indian shamen and their methods.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Kremlin]
    #883258 - 09/14/02 01:19 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I just finished reading Carlos' book on the teachings of Don Juan and the Yaqui way of life

Hey, me too! Finished reading it last night. Very good book, but i'm dissapointed that it might be fiction. Still, i suppose we will never know for sure.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Revelation]
    #883367 - 09/14/02 05:01 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Journey to Ixtlan, Tales of power were 2 of my favorites.........like any other work of fiction(friday the 13th comes to mind), they usually turn into lame insipid parodies of their former selves :smirk: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Xlea321]
    #883688 - 09/14/02 09:53 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

Well it goes furthur than that, they are made up and Castenada lied for years saying they wern't made up. That's the problem I have with him. Misrepresenting an indian culture for financial gain.




True.

In reply to:

You just won't learn anything about genuine indian shamen and their methods.




Well, the wisdom contained in the books did come from somewhere. If it was all from Castenada's own head, then I am very much intrigued by him. I would suspect some of it does indeed have a basis in reality, with the standard artistic liberties taken.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineLittleBen
Feed Me A StrayCat

Registered: 08/31/02
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #883962 - 09/15/02 08:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Finance was not Castenadas purpose for writing these books. He wrote them to teach, he lied about there validity for credability. When I read them I had no idea whether or not they were fact or fiction, But I have never had a need to know because the value of what he says is so high. I would not trade what I have learned from these books for anything.


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Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: LittleBen]
    #884221 - 09/15/02 10:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, while tripping on peyote, when you use your Tonal to guide your luminous body to the bedrock below as you jump off that 50' cliff, it makes no difference whether the teachings were real or metaphorical.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineViBrAnT
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
    #885119 - 09/16/02 08:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

he he, good one. Mybe he just couldnt wait long enough on earth to experience the grandest vision he ever held of himself. ah well, infinite leads to the same end.


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




Edited by ViBrAnT (09/16/02 08:27 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
    #885372 - 09/16/02 10:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

LOL!!!!!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineAmoeba665
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Kremlin]
    #885642 - 09/16/02 01:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

you should read his last one, 'the active side of infinity'. its full of vague autobiographical stories and anecdotes.. one which struck me as particularly interesting was right near the end of the book when he tells about his 'cousin' who was raised by his grandmother. his cousin, he said, was clever and intelligent and full of potential... but what he wanted in life was to be a 'writer of note'. so he tried writing plays and stories, but they could never capture the emotional intensity or imagery that any truly talented writers could. finally his cousin wrote a play which became very successful, but eventually it was revealed as being largely plagarized, at which point his cousin decided to go away on a long journey. before he left, the last piece of advice his grandmother gave him was "just do". if you want to do something, just do it... well, my recounting of this anecdote is based on memory and might be a little bit off. but it gets the basic idea across.

another very important concept presented only in the last book is the idea of "mud shadows", psychic beings who feed off of our negative energy.

'the teachings of don juan' was the most realistic of all his books, mainly because of the way it was written, as a sort of scientific journal followed by that appendix of conclusions. he was actually awarded a college degree for writing that book. after that, his books seemed to quite obviously become works of fiction. there are also contradictions in *his own stories* of how he met don juan.

that being said, i think there are some very interesting ideas in those books, and i plan on reading more of them. he obviously lifted many ideas from various religious traditions. the fact that his writing was largely, if not completely, fiction, doesn't invalidate any of the ideas or subjects he speaks about. by putting them in the realm of first-person fiction, he also makes them more accessible. lying was an integral part of carlos castaneda's shamanic identity. in my opinion, what he did both helps to open people's minds to new ideas and possibilities while also encouraging them to be skeptical. the mystery, contradiction and fraud surrounding his real life also promotes this inner conflict and contrast within the hearts of his readers, thus rejuvenating the question of "what is the truth?" and hopefully providing more fuel for the seeker's journey. i think this is the task of all *true* mystics... to conduct their own search for god, for the source of the beginning and the end, while at the same time helping others on their own journey.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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