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Invisiblezorbman
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Obama picks Biden as VP
    #8813715 - 08/22/08 11:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Is this a good pick?

Aug 22nd, 2008 | WASHINGTON -- Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware is Barack Obama's pick as vice presidential running mate, The Associated Press has learned.

Biden, 65, is a veteran of more than three decades in the Senate, and one of his party's leading experts on foreign policy, an area in which polls indicate Obama needs help in his race against Republican rival John McCain.

The official who spoke did so on condition of anonymity, saying they did not want to pre-empt a text-message announcement the Obama campaign promised for Saturday morning.

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/2008/08/22/D92NPH8G1_veepstakes/index.html


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8813842 - 08/23/08 12:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Everything will be fine so long as he has Brzezinski for national security.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Minstrel]
    #8813856 - 08/23/08 12:10 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I really think Clinton would have been a better pick as far as electability is concerned. :shrug:


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8813887 - 08/23/08 12:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

then its just as official that mccain has won the POTUS...nothing against joe biden..but a ticket of two northern liberals is box-office poison.. thats a cardinal rule of presidential politics...the only outside chance for a democratic victory now is if the convention snatches the nomination back for hillary...


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Edited by Annapurna1 (08/23/08 12:18 AM)


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8813937 - 08/23/08 12:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You guys really have your finger on the pulse.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8814030 - 08/23/08 12:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I really think Clinton would have been a better pick as far as electability is concerned. :shrug:




Wouldn't that have crippled Obama's Change message?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8814092 - 08/23/08 01:15 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think his "change" message is too substantial when it comes to the voters that he has yet to court, really. I'm not really sure that the average voters are going to say "oh, this guy I don't know is said to have foreign policy experience, so I guess I'll vote for him after all". Who knows though; I think Biden is still a great choice. It just seems that he doesn't really add many votes to Obama, whereas Hillary would have. :shrug:


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InvisibleBaeosistine
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8814128 - 08/23/08 01:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He will also be good for Florida


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Annapurna1]
    #8814192 - 08/23/08 01:57 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I saw this one coming a mile away.

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
then its just as official that mccain has won the POTUS...nothing against joe biden..but a ticket of two northern liberals is box-office poison.. thats a cardinal rule of presidential politics...the only outside chance for a democratic victory now is if the convention snatches the nomination back for hillary...




:rolleyes:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8814318 - 08/23/08 03:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> I really think Clinton would have been a better pick as far as electability is concerned. :shrug:

I don't think he and the Clintons like each other... at all.


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Offlinejoekenorer
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8814346 - 08/23/08 04:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

McCain will likely dig his own grave. They underestimate how many poeple actually see the republican campaign as very much like those before it.  I don't think reps really thought McCain had a chance, and just put him up out of formality.  He could win, if his backers really gave a shit and tried.  I hope they don't.  I'm not for either party, but common sense says reps had plenty of time in office already.  Thats probably the extent of Obamas "change" anyway.


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Annapurna1]
    #8814356 - 08/23/08 04:28 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You know they are celebrating at the McCain campaign. :grin:


"Before winning election to the Senate three-and-a-half decades ago—Biden ranks fourth in seniority among Democrats, sixth overall;"

thats some change....


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Offlinejoekenorer
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8814361 - 08/23/08 04:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

lol


--------------------
My favorites are weeping willows, which aren't really weeping at all. They're very wispy, witty and will dance in the breeze with you. Nothing like a tree that wants to dance with you. Although it doesn't like its thin limbs being pulled at all, it absolutely LOVES it when you walk through them, letting them gently slide over your face and shoulders. If you're naked, the willow considers it to be sex. It will orgasm on your mind and you will blow dream chunks into outer space. All very fun until your neighbor sees you.                                    -The Joekenorer


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8814544 - 08/23/08 07:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Phred]
    #8814566 - 08/23/08 07:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

wow very interesting...


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8814887 - 08/23/08 09:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Terrible choice, IMO.

He should have picked someone who can attract voters outside his already existing voting bloc.


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8815506 - 08/23/08 12:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
You know they are celebrating at the McCain campaign. :grin:


"Before winning election to the Senate three-and-a-half decades ago—Biden ranks fourth in seniority among Democrats, sixth overall;"

thats some change....




That's actually a valid point.  The thing to keep in mind is that vice presidents really don't do much at all, with the glaring exception of Cheney.

Also, you're going to be hearing about how Biden was critical of Obama in the nomination debates.  What they won't put together for you is that he was criticizing his knowledge of foreign policy, which he seems to be rectifying by hiring the one person in politics that probably knows more about foreign policy about anybody else out there (something that only comes from years of experience by the way).

In this way, he seems to be balancing his lack of experience and need for change, with a healthy amount of old-school experience.  It's not like Biden is the average politician anyways.  In fact, Biden is actually pretty awefull when it comes to politicking.  He'll probably just do his job.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8818257 - 08/23/08 11:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Since Obama is regarded by many as risky due to inexperience I wonder if the Biden pick is meant to reassure voters that Obama will be accompanied by a chaperone? An old white guy. :grin:

Cheney was picked for similar reasons- to have a good and wise influence on Bush. Of course the opposite proved to be true- Cheney's malevolent influence destroyed the Bush presidency.

People say the VP pick doesn't matter and historically that is probably true.

However the last two VPs have been given significant roles by their Presidents; This looks like a trend Obama will follow which makes his VP pick very important.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Phred]
    #8818780 - 08/24/08 02:50 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:





Hot damn.  That is a vicious fucking ad.


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: it stars saddam]
    #8819362 - 08/24/08 09:26 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It just proves what we all know: that politicians are lying scumbags who will say or do anything in order to achieve their agendas.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: adrug]
    #8819393 - 08/24/08 09:36 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What just proves your conclusion? :confused:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8819819 - 08/24/08 11:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> What just proves (that politicians are lying scumbags)

Ummm... the video of Biden dissing Obama compared to Biden accepting the role of VP on Obama's ticket, I assume.


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8819958 - 08/24/08 12:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Don't mind him, he's got his head somewhere up near cloud 9...


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8820001 - 08/24/08 12:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't like Biden. He's a big supporter of the RAVE act. :thumbdown:


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Le_Canard]
    #8820629 - 08/24/08 03:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

biden introduces "barack america"


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8823224 - 08/25/08 02:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Ummm... the video of Biden dissing Obama compared to Biden accepting the role of VP on Obama's ticket, I assume.




Exactly, the conclusion doesn't make any sense. Biden said "I think he can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is". Of course, this is when Biden was still running, which was, like what, a year ago? A statement from around a year ago, before the campaign really even kicked off, when he makes the exception that he could be ready, but, in that moment, he doesn't believe he is? It isn't possible that Obama's performance on the campaign trail in all of that time, monitoring and gaging how he conducts himself, and most importantly, how he manages the administrative functions of running his campaign, would have lead Biden to change his opinion on the matter, especially when he also considers the role that himself, an experienced individual who obviously felt himself capable of being President himself, would play as vice president?

I think don't think it is that much of a stretch, and I certainly don't see it as evidence of Biden being a lying scumbag. Adrug, the last I checked, this forum is debate-orientated, so why don't you pull your head out of your ass, drop the childish bullshit, and answer my question next time?
:imslow:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8823366 - 08/25/08 04:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> It isn't possible that Obama's performance on the campaign trail i

I can't speak for Biden, but I fail to see how interviewing for a job makes me more qualified for the job that I am seeking.  I see your point, but you are really stretching.  If Biden were running against Obama today, I suspect (again, I can't know) that Biden would still say that Obama lacked experience needed in a president.

Personally, I don't agree with the sentiment.  I don't think anything can prepare a person for the job.  However, Biden said what he said, and I don't think anything significant has changed since he said it, other than being added to the ticket... thus the typical lying politician bit holds true.


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8823440 - 08/25/08 05:15 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

biden is one of those scary zionists. brrrrrr:thumbdown:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: tomnl]
    #8823513 - 08/25/08 06:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> biden is one of those scary zionists. brrrrrr:thumbdown:

Roman Catholics are now Zionists?  Interesting leap.

Joe Biden is responsible for the RAVE Act (Illicit Drug Anti-Proliferation Act).  That is enough for me to loathe him and one more reason to vote for somebody other than Obama.


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8823697 - 08/25/08 08:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hey i dont know man... APPARANTLY its possible.



At least HE says so!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: tomnl]
    #8823761 - 08/25/08 08:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> At least HE says so!

:grin:  I won't be able to watch the video until later, but I trust that it is good...


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8825242 - 08/25/08 02:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Is there any constitutional requirement that a president must select a vice president to serve alongside him?


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8825247 - 08/25/08 02:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

No.


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8825257 - 08/25/08 02:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Joe Biden is the next POTUS



--------------------

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8825259 - 08/25/08 02:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The 12th amendment:

Quote:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.




And people wonder why Obama didn't go with Hillary as his running mate.  :wink:

Don't forget, the party system is a fairly new concept that was never part of the constitution.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8825267 - 08/25/08 02:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ok it seems there is precedent for not having a VP:

Richard M. Johnson
Served under Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)


"Johnson captured the nation's attention after he killed Shawnee chief Tecumseh during the Battle of Thames in 1813 (he later campaigned for vice president on this achievement with the campaign slogan "Rumpsey Dumpsey, Colonel Johnson Killed Tecumseh"). The country's adoration did not last.

Later dubbed "the most vulgar man of all vulgar men" by a Senate aide, Johnson scandalized his colleagues by taking one of his slaves as his common-law wife; as a result, he barely garnered enough support to serve in Martin van Buren's administration.

While in office, he proposed an expedition to the North Pole so Americans could drill to the center of the Earth, believing the planet was hollow (his resolution was defeated). Evidently van Buren's experience with Johnson soured him on vice presidents altogether — when he ran for re-election he dropped Johnson from his ticket and didn't bother replacing him. Instead, he ran alone."

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1834600_1834604_1834620,00.html


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zorbman]
    #8825928 - 08/25/08 04:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't think it was possible to have a VP who's an even bigger dick than Cheney


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zouden]
    #8825959 - 08/25/08 04:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Nixon?  Agnew?  Johnson?  Gore?  Quayle?  Do you know anything at all about America?


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8826016 - 08/25/08 05:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes I know a lot about it I just have a different definition of a "bad VP" to you


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zouden]
    #8826082 - 08/25/08 05:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have to agree that in most cases an unpowerful and ignorant and/or malicious veep isn't as bad as a powerful, smart, and malicious veep.

I'd describe Biden as intelligent and benevolent from his actions in politics thus far, although his power as a veep is yet to be seen.  It's likely to more higher than average though.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Ferris]
    #8826089 - 08/25/08 05:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> and benevolent

Benevolent?  You have to be joking?  This is the douche that pushed the RAVE Act through by sticking in the Amber Alert Bill.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8826113 - 08/25/08 05:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Biden is not going to have any power as a VEEP, since he isn't going to be one.  I wonder if he'll pull a Lieberman and still run for re-election as a Senator at the same time.


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP *DELETED* [Re: Seuss]
    #8826178 - 08/25/08 05:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by Ferris

Reason for deletion: .



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Ferris]
    #8826233 - 08/25/08 05:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Ah, a Biden apologist.  Sorry, but I don't buy it.  Two wrongs do not make a right, and the democrats certainly haven't prevented us from living in a fundamentalist christian state.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8826430 - 08/25/08 06:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I fucking hate Joe Biden.  I'm voting for Nader.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8828646 - 08/26/08 01:13 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Ah, a Biden apologist.  Sorry, but I don't buy it.  Two wrongs do not make a right, and the democrats certainly haven't prevented us from living in a fundamentalist christian state.



There's little they can do. Ferris is right; most people support the war on drugs, so candidates fight against it at their peril. The Christian Right (and other groups) are extremely powerful in the US, particularly at the Federal level. The most we can hope for is decriminalisation at the state level.

Drug legislation is not one of the issues at this election - the economy, fuel prices, immigration and Iraq are. If a candidate tried to make it an issue, his opponent will make sure he'd lose.

The fight to change the public's perception of drugs is a much bigger battle than this election, unfortunately.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineChemy
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Ferris]
    #8829247 - 08/26/08 05:24 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
The RAVE act has no effect on drugs that aren't listed as controlled substances, it simply enforces the law on those drugs already made illegal. 



The RAVE act so far has been used to shut down a NORML fundraiser and a Students for Sensible Drug Policy fundraiser.

Quote:

DEA Abuses Authority Under New Federal "RAVE Act" To Trample First Amendment
http://www.norml.com/index.cfm?Group_ID=5663




Quote:

"But from a policy perspective, it’s a disaster. Biden has sponsored more damaging drug war legislation than any Democrat in Congress. Hate the way federal prosecutors use RICO laws to take aim at drug offenders? Thank Biden. How about the abomination that is federal asset forfeiture laws? Thank Biden. Think federal prosecutors have too much power in drug cases? Thank Biden. Think the title of a “Drug Czar” is sanctimonious and silly? Thank Biden, who helped create the position (and still considers it an accomplishment worth boasting about). Tired of the ridiculous steroids hearings in Congress? Thank Biden, who led the effort to make steroids a Schedule 3 drug, and has been among the blowhardiest of the blowhards when it comes to sports and performance enhancing drugs. Biden voted in favor of using international development aid for drug control (think plan Columbia, plan Afghanistan, and other meddling anti-drug efforts that have only fostered loathing of America, backlash, and unintended consequences). Oh, and he was also the chief sponsor of 2004’s horrendous RAVE Act."
http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/23/biden/




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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Ferris]
    #8829326 - 08/26/08 06:15 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> and benevolent

Benevolent?  You have to be joking?  This is the douche that pushed the RAVE Act through by sticking in the Amber Alert Bill.




The RAVE act has no effect on drugs that aren't listed as controlled substances, it simply enforces the law on those drugs already made illegal.  Don't get me wrong, I still totally disagree with it, but if you're calling him malevolent because he enforces drug law, then you are asking him to go against the will of the people.  The solution to ending the war on drugs is to end public support, not to have unrealistic expectations of politicians.

(attaching an ammendment to a surefire bill of that sort is standard practice unfortunately.  If democrats didn't do it, we'd be living in a fundamentalist christian state by now).





It does not simply enforce the law as to drugs.

Commiting a drug crime is a criminal offense, and hence there is a mens rea element that can provide aquital for those not having the guilty intent, proved beyond a reasonable doubt.  Additionally, their are statutory mens rea elements of the common drug crimes.


The rave act allowed civil penalties for people who in some way facilitate an event where drugs are used.  While their are knowing elements, these are only to be proven by a preponderance of the evidence, and not beyond a reasonable doubt.

Thus a jury could conclude that someone who has a "chill room" in a club is knowing that a quieter more relaxed room could only be enjoyed or intended for drug users, and not people tired of dancing and sick of loud music, and asses civil penalties.


The difference is that the knowing element is only proved by a most likely standard, with things such as chill rooms and glow sticks being mentioned as things promoters sell for drug use in the findings of the law, and not beyond a reasonable doubt.  And since their is no requirement that the promoter/owner use drugs himself or have anything to do with drugs, just knowing that they will be used is enough (say good bye to schools), the civil penalties are unfair and stifle property rights.


You see a law that requires a low civil standard against someone who knows that drug users will be at his event, and even, gasp, sells glowsticks, and enforces such with draconian penalties, to be just enforcing the drug laws?

Enforcing the drug laws would be arresting drug users/dealers, not arresting/sueing people who knowing rent to people who know will be using drugs in some percentage.

While teh actual text of the law seems to have reassuring safeguards, the fact that glowsticks are cited, idiotic, as well as chillrooms, makes me really dislike the law (those the citations are in the law they are not enforcable at least).

Could someone be sued for providing a place with knowledge that drug use would be present?  It would seem by understanding such he would intend that the place be used by everyone who is likely to come, and if he knows those are drug users, surely he intends to make the place available for drug users, even if that is not the overriding purpose?


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: johnm214]
    #8829398 - 08/26/08 07:13 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I was already considering the first ammendment implications, but if what chemy says is true, the situation is clearly worse than I thought.

Still mostly irrelevant to the election though.  The veep candidate patches the holes to one of the most liberal pres candidates that we have ever seen.  Hopefully this is a step to even more liberal people in the future.

Let's hope Obama gets elected and some conservative judges die (with as much respect as I can hold towards them).  He WILL be appointing judges that would shoot down laws like the rave act, or at the very least be limiting them.  It would help if we keep the majority in the house and senate to ease the confirmations.  The larger the better.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Seuss]
    #8829403 - 08/26/08 07:15 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

And people wonder why Obama didn't go with Hillary as his running mate.  :wink:




Um yeah.  But no worries.  McCain will win this one hands down thanks to racism in America and in the old cunts, er, racist, sexist bitches in the Democrat party.

I am more ashamed to be a Democrat now than I have ever been (and that's saying something).

So ladies, when do we bring out the Hillary 2012 signs?

Hillary?  2012?

That's unsettling but mildly prophetic.



I hate Hillary but she might have been a better choice than Biden.  That way, if Barack survived her vice-presidency, we could be assured she'd never be president.  I consider her a greater threat to the United States than Muslim terrorists.


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8829427 - 08/26/08 07:31 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> McCain will win this one hands down thanks to racism in America
I think Obama has a better chance than you think; polls show that race doesn't affect voters all that much. At least he's not an athiest. Then he'd have no chance.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zouden]
    #8829457 - 08/26/08 07:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
> McCain will win this one hands down thanks to racism in America






and so it begins.....



who are the racists? Democrats? Independents?


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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8829471 - 08/26/08 07:48 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:

  McCain will win this one hands down thanks to racism in America and in the old cunts, er, racist, sexist bitches in the Democrat party.








at least u blame some of it on the Democrats... :handth:


--------------------
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: zouden]
    #8829528 - 08/26/08 08:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
Ah, a Biden apologist.  Sorry, but I don't buy it.  Two wrongs do not make a right, and the democrats certainly haven't prevented us from living in a fundamentalist christian state.




There's little they can do. Ferris is right; most people support the war on drugs, so candidates fight against it at their peril. The Christian Right (and other groups) are extremely powerful in the US, particularly at the Federal level.




Doesn't Biden have a duty to uphold the rights proclaimed in the Constitution as well as those natural rights endowed upon us merely by being born? It does not matter what the masses believe, it matters what is not an invasion of my rights

James Madison said in Federalist 10:
Quote:

When a majority is included in a faction, the form of popular government, on the other hand, enables it to sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.  To secure the public good and private rights against the danger of such a faction, and at the same time to preserve the spirit and the form of popular government, is then the great object to which our inquiries are directed. Let me add that it is the great desideratum by which this form of government can be rescued from the opprobrium under which it has so long labored, and be recommended to the esteem and adoption of mankind...

By what means is this object attainable? Evidently by one of two only. Either the existence of the same passion or interest in a majority at the same time must be prevented, or the majority, having such coexistent passion or interest, must be rendered, by their number and local situation, unable to concert and carry into effect schemes of oppression.




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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8829973 - 08/26/08 10:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:

  McCain will win this one hands down thanks to racism in America and in the old cunts, er, racist, sexist bitches in the Democrat party.






and please send the old cunts, er, racist, sexist bitches to the GOP.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8830423 - 08/26/08 12:02 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

> It does not matter what the masses believe, it matters what is not an invasion of my rights

With you 100% on this one.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Obama picks Biden as VP [Re: Redstorm]
    #8831308 - 08/26/08 04:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
It does not matter what the masses believe, it matters what is not an invasion of my rights



Absolutely, but in practise, "what the masses believe" is extremely important. One of the downsides of democracy.


--------------------
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                                                part of the world belongs to me
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                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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