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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: magicbastard]
    #8814418 - 08/23/08 05:57 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

magicbastard said:
Quote:

The fall of the 47-story World Trade Center building 7 (WTC 7) in New York City late in the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2001, was primarily due to fires




Quote:

“Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7,”




So...if I read that right...the plane crashes didn't start the fires...that means terrorists must have ran into the towers after crashing the planes and started fires, so the planes were just a decoy to distract everybody from them starting fires, simple as that.




It is very clear that you haven't even bothered to try to understand what they are saying.

The fires in WTC7 were caused by debris from WTC1 hitting it when it collapsed. They unambiguously state this.

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: dtugg]
    #8814519 - 08/23/08 06:58 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dtugg said:
Actually, I think that another deranged truther, Judy Wood*, might be onto something. Did the NIST test ground zero for signs that the towers were brought down using a directed energy beam from space? If not, I think this is evidence a Star Wars weapon is really what brought down the towers and the NIST is covering it up.

*Most people have probably never heard of Judy Wood. She is a batshit crazy woman who really believes that the US government demolished the twin towers by using some sort of super secret directed energy weapon from space. A lot of truthers dismiss her as a disinfo agent planted to make their movement look stupid, but she really is that far gone. The sad thing is that she has several degrees in relevent fields including a PhD in Materials Engineering Science. Surprisingly, Clemson University, where she used to teach, declined to continue her employment after she started telling people about her theories.




Your bringing up of Judy Wood's wild ideas betrays your purpose here.  She is a data falsifier, and a no planer. 

Here is some relevant literature, which it would have been prudent for you to post:

Judy Wood's own website:  http://www.drjudywood.com/

A critique of her space-beam weapons theory:  Scientific Critique of Judy Wood’s Paper “The Star Wars Beam Weapon”

A critique of her request for revision to NIST:  A Brief Analysis of Dr. Judy Wood’s Request for Correction to NIST: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Did you honestly think you can garner credibility by (even mockingly) citing someone who endorses the quackery of the hutchinson effect?  I really don't understand why you brought this up out of no-where.  It represents poor judgment on your part.  A pitiful straw-man.


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Edited by Minstrel (08/23/08 07:35 AM)

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OfflineRayn
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815122 - 08/23/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I would say it's more than a little coincidental that in one day 3 steel framed buildings collapsed from fire for the first time in known history.


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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815207 - 08/23/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Of course I know that Wood is full of shit, I made that very clear in my post so it's not like I tried to mislead people. That was my point. Just because someone has a doctorate doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. Are you one of the people that says she is disinfo, or you acknowledge that she is just crazy?

Jones has just as much science and evidence backing his theory up as she does: None. He just comes off as likable and not so crazy. The fact that other thruthers criticize her and not Jones mean little to me. Actually, I think it is hilarious how much in fighting is going on in the "truth" movement. They will never accomplish anything for sure except for make a little money peddling their crap to gullible people.

I am waiting for you to come up with a reason as to why Jones hasn't been able to publish his thermite paper anywhere except the publication where he is an owner and editor.

Edited by dtugg (08/23/08 11:15 AM)

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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Rayn]
    #8815306 - 08/23/08 11:28 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rayn said:
I would say it's more than a little coincidental that in one day 3 steel framed buildings collapsed from fire for the first time in known history.




Actually, the first two didn't collapse just because of fires. They fell because fucking big ass planes also crashed into them severly damaging their structure. Fire played a big role too, but both were needed for the collapse. Do you know what NIST says the mechanism for collapse initiation was? It's slightly more complicated thats planes>fire>collapse and is supported by a great deal of evidence.

Edited by dtugg (08/23/08 11:38 AM)

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: dtugg]
    #8815377 - 08/23/08 11:46 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

>Of course I know that Wood is full of shit, I made that very clear in my post so it's not like I tried to mislead people. That was my point. Just because someone has a doctorate doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. Are you one of the people that says she is disinfo, or you acknowledge that she is just crazy?

Labeling anyone as such isn't a way to facilitate any objective appraisal of information.  Rather, it undermines it.

I'm still waiting for you to provide proof Dr. Jones is lying about anything.

So far you've done is just yammer on and on and give your own opinions and emotions.  I'm not interested in your opinions and feelings.  Back up your claims.  I'm eagerly awaiting.


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Edited by Minstrel (08/23/08 12:01 PM)

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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815465 - 08/23/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
I'm still waiting for you to provide proof S. Jones is lying about....anything?

So far you just yammer on and on and give your own opinion.  I'm not interested in your opinion.  Back up your claims.




Nice dodge.


1) He is lying when he says therm?te can cut through huge steel beams. I don't need to back anything up here for Jones to be a liar, he has to back it up for him not to be a liar. Unless he can come up with some sort of proof that this can be done, he is a liar who made the whole thing up. I don't expect he'll ever try this out because he would likely just further expose to the whole world what a fraud he has been for the past three years.

2) He is lying when he says some reside found near ground zero is proof that there was therm?te using in the destruction in the towers. The same elements that one would find in a therm?te reaction would be expected to be found there anyway. Look it up. I am sure he knows this but totally ignoring it makes him a liar and a fraud.

None of this is my opinion. It is fact. He hasn't proven that therm?te can easily cut through large steel beams. Finding residue somewhat consistent with a therm?te reaction is not proof at all that therm?te brought down the towers. Therefore, he is a liar and a fraud. There is plenty more, but I really don't want to read his paper again to find specific examples, I already gave enough to show him as a liar without having to read that drivel again.


Now, please tell me why Dr. Jones can't get his therm?te paper published anywhere except in a journal that he owns and edits.

Edited by dtugg (08/23/08 12:16 PM)

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815627 - 08/23/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Don't tell me to look anything up.  You look it up and bring it here.  You need to support the claims, not me.

Jones not having all the answers, and admitting he doesn't have all the answers makes him a liar?  How so?  Newton couldn't explain how gravity had action at a distance, but was still able to quantify it's effect.  Does this make Newton a liar and a fraud? 

You also expect scientists to provide 'absolute proof'.  Such an idea is ridiculous.  They can only support conclusions from evidence.  Extremely high temperatures (NIST admits are well in excess of what a normal fire can reach), tiny iron spheres, and elements contained therein having their respective ratios to be consistent with thermite, and high temperature oxidation/sulfidation is the evidence thermite was used, determined by XDS and microscopy.  NIST even admits the presence of many of these anomalies themselves, and makes no attempt to determine the source.


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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815721 - 08/23/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I really hope you're not trying to compare Jones to Newton. The idea is laughable.

Look this is simple, if you are going to make the claim thermite can cut through large steel beams and that's how they brought down the towers, you need to at least show that thermite can in fact cut through steel beams. This is something that can be done with simple experimentation. Jones has made no effort to do that (although another truther did and failed horribly), ergo he made the whole thing up.

Of course there were anomalies. These were amazingly complex events, and it would be impossible for them to explain exactly what happened with everything. That doesn't mean that thermite brought the buildings down. Jones doesn't even attempt to find other, more rational explanations. And he hasn't even released his samples to other scientists so they can study for them either. He is a fraud.

Yeah there were fires hotter than normal ones in the rubble. But normal fires also don't have millions of tons of debris on top of them. It's pretty simple, it acted sort of like a blast furnace. NIST doesn't really go into it because that was outside their mandate. Their job was to find out how the buildings collapsed and what could be done in the future to prevent it. What was going on in the rubble after the fact has nothing to do with that.

It's not like these high temperatures even support some kind of controlled demolition/thermite theory anyway. Have you ever heard of a controlled demo that left extremely high temperatures weeks later? Thermite that is still burning weeks after it's been ignited? I would love for somebody to explain exactly how controlled demo/thermite could have caused these anomalies. But no truther ever will because they can't support that idea with anything.

I will keep asking this:

Why has Jones failed to get his thermite work published anywhere except for a journal where he is an editor?

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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: dtugg]
    #8815735 - 08/23/08 01:32 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The movie Loose Change is good. That's all I'm gonna say.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815741 - 08/23/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I'm done.  It's like talking to a brick.  You don't cite anything to support your claims.


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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: LightShedder]
    #8815751 - 08/23/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
The movie Loose Change is good. That's all I'm gonna say.




I hope you are fucking kidding me. That has got to be the worst "documentary" that I have ever seen. Dylan Avery started out as making it fictional and admits so himself. If I ever see that douchebag, I am going to punch him in the face for lying to so many people.


If you are serious, here are a couple of debunkings of it:

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Fun Fact: Jason Bermas, one of the Loose Change idiots, said on camera that the fire fighers were paid off.

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815758 - 08/23/08 01:38 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Citing claims is pretty pointless at this point, because the same things have been cited again and again and again.  You know where to read the peer reviewed articles mainstream publications that show one side, and the non peer reviewed articles and alternative media that show the other side.

To me the things he is saying make common sense, so I dont really need a citation.  Its a laughable 'debate', like debating evolution or brown gas.

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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8815767 - 08/23/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
I'm done.  It's like talking to a brick.  You don't cite anything to support your claims.




I did support my claims. You just don't want to hear it. Jones doesn't even attempt to prove that thermite can cut through huge steel beems, so he made the whole thing up and is a liar. It's not like I have to find some way to prove that it can't happen. The burden of proof is on him. Maybe that's why he can't get published.

It's cool, you lost and cannot support any kind of conspiracy with any facts. Peace.

Edited by dtugg (08/23/08 01:42 PM)

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Invisiblecb_brooklyn
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: magicbastard]
    #8817389 - 08/23/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Lenin, the first Communist dictator after the takeover of Russia in 1917, is widely credited with the following quotation, "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves."


WTC 7 is a red herring designed to distract us from exotic weaponry usage on 9/11.

WHY ELSE would Larry Silverstein tell PBS they "pulled it"?

WHY ELSE would PBS air Silverstein's "pull it" statement?


Exotic weaponry was used on 9/11:

Check out Hurricane Erin near NYC on 9/11!
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/CB_Brooklyn/TM-FES-GEA/010911_wtc_terra1_cbc.jpg

See Dr Wood's new paper for info on Erin and learn of it's relation to the 9/11 events:
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/erin/

Hutchison Effect-like technology was used on 9/11. The pictorial comparisons make this more than obvious!
http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/

Magnetometer data from alaska.edu shows the earth's magnetic field shifted with every 9/11 "event". This includes the plane-shaped holes appearing in the towers. The World Trade Center was destroyed with directed energy weapons. See this analysis by former Clemson University Professor of Mechanical Engineering Dr Judy Wood for info on the magnetometer data:
http://drjudywood.com/articles/erin/erin5.html

Why were there shifts in the earth's magnetic field when the plane shaped holes appeared???

Answer: because those holes were created with directed energy weapons. There were NO plane crashes at the WTC; if there were, there would have been reports of permanent hearing damage when a wide-body commercial airliner hit the towers at full throttle at 600 ft. Instead, people reported hearing "nothing".

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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Minstrel]
    #8817801 - 08/23/08 09:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, I hope you're not serious.

The Silverstien "pull it" quotes are hugely debunked. http://debunking911.com/pull.htm .

He meant to pull firefighters from WTC7. As if he would admit the conspiracy to the enitre world on TV. "Pull it" is firefighter terminology. The only way it is used in demolition is when buildings are manually pulled down by attaching cables to columns and pulling them. WTC7 was very large and it wouldn't have been possible that.


Judy Wood? LOL! Bitch is crazy as hell and I can't believe anybody listens to her. Read criticism of her Minstrel provided earlier by other truthers earlier. For real, that shit is fucking stupid as hell.

Edited by dtugg (08/23/08 09:07 PM)

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OfflineRuNE
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: dtugg]
    #8817951 - 08/23/08 09:51 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Who cares if 'we' did it or not.



But it's pretty neat and convenient how it ended with us having a central base in the middle east!  :laugh:


:cheers:


--------------------
~Happy sailing~

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Invisiblecb_brooklyn
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: dtugg]
    #8818217 - 08/23/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dtugg said:
Dude, I hope you're not serious.

The Silverstien "pull it" quotes are hugely debunked. http://debunking911.com/pull.htm .

He meant to pull firefighters from WTC7. As if he would admit the conspiracy to the enitre world on TV. "Pull it" is firefighter terminology. The only way it is used in demolition is when buildings are manually pulled down by attaching cables to columns and pulling them. WTC7 was very large and it wouldn't have been possible that.


Judy Wood? LOL! Bitch is crazy as hell and I can't believe anybody listens to her. Read criticism of her Minstrel provided earlier by other truthers earlier. For real, that shit is fucking stupid as hell.






You completely misunderstand my point about WTC 7

The point is: WTC 7 DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE IT IS A RED HERRING.


Calling Dr Wood names only proves yourself ignorant on the facts. Try debating the evidence, if you have the balls.

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InvisibleEsophagus
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: magicbastard]
    #8818485 - 08/24/08 12:18 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Just shows you. You'll never know what the fucking truth is...or you may you'll just never hear it from our government.


--------------------
"First of all, I don't see America having problems." --George W. Bush, interview with Bob Costas at the 2008 Olympics, Beijing, China, Aug. 10, 2008

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Offlinedtugg
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Re: So, after 7 years, we finally know what happened in WTC7 [Re: Esophagus]
    #8818825 - 08/24/08 03:35 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Are you also a believer of the no plane/tv fakery BS?

"Debating" with someone that believes energy beams from space destroyed the WTC is pointless because it is glaringly obvious that you know nothing about science and are probably as crazy as Wood. I'm not going to go to her website and read her crazy rantings because it as Maddox would say, it's like being bukakked with stupid. It's not that I don't have "the balls" it is just that the whole thing is so stupid. People like you are a case study that people will believe anything.

Anybody lurkers interested, watch this interview with Wood and decide for yourself whether she is sane and whether her rantings are based on science.

Do you also believe in David Icke's reptilians. If not read one of his books, I'm sure he will convince you. There is probably more "evidence" for his theories that Woods'.

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