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Anonymous #1

Considering Suicide...
    #8803068 - 08/20/08 11:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

What I am wondering is this:

Can it ever be a logic-based choice to kill yourself... to plan, or consider killing yourself?

Let's get something straight. I am not asking if it's a good idea to off myself, or if suicide is a good idea in general. If you respond only based on that assumption about my question, you're way off topic.

This is not a cry for help, but an inquiry.

I want to know what people think of this... if you believe that suicide is always impulsive, or always based on mainly emotion... or if you think that a person can detach themselves, and make a "clear-headed" decision, that they no longer want to live.

I'd love to hear what people think of this.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #8803083 - 08/20/08 11:43 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

i don't think any decision can be made without regard to emotion(s) in one way or another


i'm not positive, but i doubt most suicides are spur-of-the-moment choices.  i think most people plan them out.  whether or not they follow that plan is another story


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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: demiu5]
    #8803127 - 08/20/08 11:52 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

If you are clear headed I think MOST people would see that its crazy first of all...I have thought about it, and like said above even began to plan it out. Well, once I got to a clear space, and thought about it I realized that it solves nothing. It creates more problems. Maybe not for you, but for others.

I hated my life for awhile, and soon realized I might as well enjoy it while I have it. One day I'll be dead, and never get to experience things.

My reasons were all selfish. I felt bad for myself because I didn't have what everyone else had...But now I do. So what? Even if you are happy for a total of 5-10 years of your life out of the 60-70 years...I'd say life is worth it.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: demiu5]
    #8803135 - 08/20/08 11:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
i don't think any decision can be made without regard to emotion(s) in one way or another


i'm not positive, but i doubt most suicides are spur-of-the-moment choices.  i think most people plan them out.  whether or not they follow that plan is another story




Your first point is a very good one.  I think it is difficult, if not impossible to separate emotion from decision.

On the other hand, I have been wondering something similar, myself--if one really might be able to detach enough to make a choice like that without emotion being the only factor.

But I do think that lots of suicides are impulsive.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: MHbound]
    #8803157 - 08/20/08 11:57 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MHbound said:
If you are clear headed I think MOST people would see that its crazy first of all...I have thought about it, and like said above even began to plan it out. Well, once I got to a clear space, and thought about it I realized that it solves nothing. It creates more problems. Maybe not for you, but for others.

I hated my life for awhile, and soon realized I might as well enjoy it while I have it. One day I'll be dead, and never get to experience things.

My reasons were all selfish. I felt bad for myself because I didn't have what everyone else had...But now I do. So what? Even if you are happy for a total of 5-10 years of your life out of the 60-70 years...I'd say life is worth it.




An interesting point, and I will take that into consideration.

It's a little off topic... but what do you mean by causing more problems for "other people?"

And what if this wasn't a concern?


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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #8803238 - 08/21/08 12:10 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

You might find this article interesting.


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Invisiblenever.never.land
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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #8803270 - 08/21/08 12:15 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I always feel like I'll die by suicide. I've come close a few times but always been able to pull through. However when I'm 60 and suffering I can easily see myself lighting up the charcoal barbecue in a tent.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: never.never.land]
    #8803420 - 08/21/08 12:50 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

An interesting point, and I will take that into consideration.

It's a little off topic... but what do you mean by causing more problems for "other people?"

And what if this wasn't a concern?




Like I said for most people contemplating suicide this isn't a concern. People who want to kill themselves are only thinking of themselves. Here is what I mean by that...I'm sure you have some people who care for you regardless of what you think...

For example lets use me if I killed myself:

I would leave my family with a bunch of loans.
I would leave them with a dog to tend to.
I would leave them with other financial things.
I would leave family and friends wondering what it is they did wrong...When in reality they didn't do anything, and you'd be making them pay for it.
I would leave them with a funeral to deal with.
It would probably shorten their lives because of the grief they would go through...

Why should I shorten someone elses life when I could just wait it out, and enjoy the good times as they come. We all have good times, and I think you know this. You might not have many, but the ones we have are fucking worth being alive.

If you are really thinking about suicide you need to step outside of yourself and go help someone else. Go volunteer somewhere, go talk with a friend and ASK HOW THEY ARE FEELING...Not go and tell them all your problems.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: MHbound]
    #8803613 - 08/21/08 01:42 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I appreciate your concern. Don't worry about me. I'm okay.

Thank you for your words, though.

Regarding problems for others:  I had a lot of thoughts upon reading your opinion,and while they do seem very valid, especially for a lot of people...

What if you knew that there would be people hurt by what you did, but you felt that most of those people had acted selfishly before, in ways that made your life worse? From this perspective the reaction of those others might seem less important.

I know this wouldn't apply to lots of people. But what if everyone closest to you (those that should, in theory, be most affected by your death)  had really stuck it in and broke it off at some point in your life--for the sake of their own advancement or happiness, knowing that it hurt you, apparently wanting their own happiness more than yours.

Why would a person then remain in a life they did not want to live, to spare the feelings of such people?

This is hypothetical, of course. And while I thought you made a good point, and an awesome post, I want to play devil's advocate here and point out that maybe there's another side to that aspect...


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Anonymous #1

Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #8803692 - 08/21/08 02:05 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ChiefGreenLeaf said:
You might find this article interesting.





This was an awesome article. Lots to think about. Thank you for posting that!

Quote:


“You know, I hear myself describing all this,” she said, “but it seems completely surreal. I feel like I’m describing a movie I saw or a book I read. Even sitting here now and looking at that” — she motioned to her cane — “it’s hard to believe this is something I actually did.”




It definitely sounds to me that those doing this impulsively are in the grip of a strange mental state. It strikes me as somewhat odd, though, that those doing it impulsively have a higher success rate.

Jesus, how do you fuck up an overdose? Most people think that guns are pretty surefire (no pun intended,) but I know better. Hearing a jawless man describe the time he put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger is pretty depressing.

After reading the article, though, I think my original question is even more valid. Here is why:

Quote:

“The goal is to put more time between the person and his ability to act,” Miller said. “If he has to go down to the basement to get his ammunition or rummage around in his dresser for the key to the gun safe, you’re injecting time and effort into the equation — maybe just a couple of minutes, but in a lot of cases that may be enough.”




I absolutely believe this to be true. And I think perhaps I was on the wrong track, in asking about keeping emotion out of the equation. Just that I meant to impress that I was not talking about a "hasty decision."

Say that a person is not happy with their life. They say to themselves (maybe even as a means of coping with their dissatisfaction)  "I do not want this. But I'll stick around to see how things turn out. If I'm still going through this in two years, and I don't want to do it any longer, I will end it."

Now, according to the article  1- This person is more likely to be mentally ill than the person who does it rashly... or rather, this person is more likely to have shown a history of mental illness.

2- This person is less likely to succeed if they do attempt it.

I believe that even if they're normally mentally healthy, the impulsive suicides are temporarily in a state of EXTREME mental illness.  Thus, the seed of my question.

I can see it happening both ways, in this scenario.  I can see the person  deciding, after all that time, that they were in a much better place. I think this is the most likely outcome.

But what if it wasn't?  What if he / she did still decide to kill themselves, after hanging in there for a while?  Would you consider this person to have acted illogically?  Rationally?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #8803874 - 08/21/08 02:55 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

If you just contracted a horrible, debilitating disease that is guaranteed to kill you after an indefinite period of agonizing pain with no hope of recovery, then you would have a purely logically-based reason for wanting to commit suicide: life with pain, doomed by a virus < the easy sleep of death on your own terms.

However, I think it's also true that no matter what, humans will be unable to remove emotion out of the equation completely.  It's funny, though... I see so many posters list the trauma on their friends and family as reasons not to commit suicide.  It's your own life, man.  Deciding to continue on in agony when there's no hope just because your death might affect others seems the ultimate in cowardice and the opposite of self-individualization.  When you're gone, you're gone--it might sound selfish, but you won't be there to witness the repercussions that might occur.  Do what you want to do because you want to do it, not because you're afraid of what other people might think.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: deCypher]
    #8804409 - 08/21/08 10:00 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Its just human nature to act selfish for alot of people. Most/ALOT of people wake up in the morning thinking what it is they can do to get theirs...Thats just part of it.

You know if those people are really close enough to you, you should be able to talk to them about what it is they did to you.

I have people who have hurt me, but guess what??? I've hurt those same people before, and probably didn't think twice about it.

I just do what it is I think is right, and let the others see how I treat others...This often leads others to try to treat me better. If they continue to treat you bad I would either talk to them, or I would discontinue communication with them. If someone always takes, and never gives back...I wouldn't want them in my life anyway, and I can make that choice.

If you really have a bunch of selfish people around you, and you aren't just saying that out of pity then I would find some new friends.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #8805118 - 08/21/08 12:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Suicide is lame, its a very unnatural thing to kill yourself.

but if you do it you should use nitrous


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: aDoS]
    #8805252 - 08/21/08 01:22 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, I hadn't thought of this method of suicide.  Just an air-tight room FILLED with nitrous... you'd definitely go out with a bang, that's for sure.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #8805347 - 08/21/08 01:48 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
I appreciate your concern. Don't worry about me. I'm okay.

Thank you for your words, though.

Regarding problems for others:  I had a lot of thoughts upon reading your opinion,and while they do seem very valid, especially for a lot of people...

What if you knew that there would be people hurt by what you did, but you felt that most of those people had acted selfishly before, in ways that made your life worse? From this perspective the reaction of those others might seem less important.

I know this wouldn't apply to lots of people. But what if everyone closest to you (those that should, in theory, be most affected by your death)  had really stuck it in and broke it off at some point in your life--for the sake of their own advancement or happiness, knowing that it hurt you, apparently wanting their own happiness more than yours.

Why would a person then remain in a life they did not want to live, to spare the feelings of such people?

This is hypothetical, of course. And while I thought you made a good point, and an awesome post, I want to play devil's advocate here and point out that maybe there's another side to that aspect...




Something in there sounds like the motive for suicide might be wanting to punish those people for not treating/ appreciating you better, or hoping, they will think you wanted out because they were crappy to you, and that they will live in eternal guilt for being so mean.

That is a motive for many a suicide case, especially where realtionships went foul. Those types see it as a way of punishing the other person by making them feel like the guilty cause of their suicide. It may be effective, but damn, what a price to pay for it.

That would be a sucky way to get your ( I'll show you) revenge.

If that is what is going on, go get yourself really happy, be a success and cut them out of it all. That is how you show others that they never got the best of you and they won't.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: deCypher]
    #8805761 - 08/21/08 03:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

It would probably be better if someone had a mask. It HAS to be a nitrous tank with only nitrous though, not that safe mixture of oxygen.

You put the mask on, relax. Breathe, you start feeling high and really good. You continue breathing, you are now super high and euphoric. Breathe more, you will eventually go unconscious...you will continue breathing while unconscious and you will eventually go into a coma. And you will die.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: aDoS] * 1
    #8805814 - 08/21/08 03:28 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

C'mon man, where's the imagination?  I'm talking about an air-tight room filled with nitrous gas, a four foot deep layer of jello strewn across the floor, and a sea of hot, naked, and nubile young women pleasantly writhing at your feet while your mind's being smeared across the universe, N2O style.

I mean, gosh, I suppose a mask would be more cost-efficient.  But what about the nubile young women?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #8806069 - 08/21/08 04:23 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Here is some literature you might be interested in.

It's a very controversial book called Suicide and Attempted Suicide by Geo Stone.

I'm not going to encourage you to go through with it, or try to talk you out of it, but if you're serious, you're going to want to be sure you do it right.


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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: aDoS]
    #8806726 - 08/21/08 07:03 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I'll download the file and have a look at that.

The nitrous doesn't sound too horrible... but... I think that it carries the same risks as with any other type of asphyxiation method.

By this, I mean survival risk.  The best methods of suicide, IMO, are the ones that aren't going to leave you crippled in some way if you survive.  If you're genuinely trying to kill yourself, you don't want more unhappiness if you live. 

If I were to do it, I would eat a couple mg of lorazepam. Maybe follow this with some dramamine, or something similar.  Lorazepam is known to have antiemetic properties.  Plus, I'd wait a while for the lorazepam to kick in. Being an anxiety medication, it would give a person one last "emotionally stable" chance to change their mind.

A little while later, I would follow this by eating some phenobarbital. This is, of course, a notoriously easy substance to fatally overdose on, especially in combination with other CNS depressants.

A short while later (not too long) I would take a shot or two of hard liquor, then ingest a respectable amount of opiates... mostly likely morphine or heroin.

I am pretty sure this combo would cause enough CNS depression for death to occur. The up-side to this method, in my view, is that if you fail the attempt... you are more likely to end up with a serious hangover, after a night of being high and then unconscious.


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I am me. We are You.


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OfflineKing Koopa
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Re: Considering Suicide... [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #8806735 - 08/21/08 07:06 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Go ahead.


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