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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24356908 - 05/28/17 05:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Can you provide evidence it wasn't that bad?
"A guy told me he wants to go back"
yeah and a guy told me it sucked, big whoop.



I'm sure you know that everyone had free housing, free education, free healthcare, a job, plenty of food, etc.

So tell me about the downsides.

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Government can't help those than wont help themselves.



THAT statement I agree with.


--------------------
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon] * 3
    #24356915 - 05/28/17 05:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Nobody is saying there arent downsides. Theyre, we're, saying its better than the alternative (shitty healthcare, slave wages,





If you're earning min wage you'll be lucky to eat that night. /s


No one should be able to buy a house on minimum wage or raise a family.
that's insanity, it should be a wage for kids to pay their parents rent and put gas in their car to go study while they improve themselves.




It SHOULD be, but it isnt. Most minimum wage workers arent kids.


--------------------


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24356923 - 05/28/17 05:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Universal healthcare with no downsides.
Higher minimum wage with no downsides.
Government can solve people problems.
Soviet Union wasn't that bad.



I know alot of russian immigrants and talked to them they tell me after Stalin the Soviet Union wasn't that bad. Sure they didn't gorge themselves on consumer goods like americans but they had there needs met free travel anywhere in the country free healthcare it wasn't Mordor lol. Universal healthcare could work here in the states just cut the military budget no tax increase required.





Free travel! all of Russia guys!
Come see how shitty everyone else has it, Only here in GLORIOUS Soviet Union!

Free healthcare too! glorious soviet doctors, world renowned, best in their field!
We have all the equipment you need!

Boobs look like Babushka's potato sack? Come see Ivan Donovich! for FREE boob job today!

All for ONE LOW PRICE of slashed defense budget!


Amazing.
Why would such a fantastic system collapse and GDP never budge?
Truly a mystery.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24356927 - 05/28/17 05:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
If you're earning min wage you'll be lucky to eat that night. /s


No one should be able to buy a house on minimum wage or raise a family.
that's insanity, it should be a wage for kids to pay their parents rent and put gas in their car to go study while they improve themselves.



You seem to be saying that we SHOULDN'T make things better for low income workers, and that life SHOULD suck for them.  I guess you're enitled to that opinion.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24356936 - 05/28/17 05:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


You seem to be saying that we SHOULDN'T make things better for low income workers, and that life SHOULD suck for them.  I guess you're enitled to that opinion.





I'm saying they should make it better for themselves.


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InvisibleCyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24356940 - 05/28/17 05:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:


Universal healthcare with no downsides.
Higher minimum wage with no downsides.
Government can solve people problems.
Soviet Union wasn't that bad.



I know alot of russian immigrants and talked to them they tell me after Stalin the Soviet Union wasn't that bad. Sure they didn't gorge themselves on consumer goods like americans but they had there needs met free travel anywhere in the country free healthcare it wasn't Mordor lol. Universal healthcare could work here in the states just cut the military budget no tax increase required.





Free travel! all of Russia guys!
Come see how shitty everyone else has it, Only here in GLORIOUS Soviet Union!

Free healthcare too! glorious soviet doctors, world renowned, best in their field!
We have all the equipment you need!

Boobs look like Babushka's potato sack? Come see Ivan Donovich! for FREE boob job today!

All for ONE LOW PRICE of slashed defense budget!


Amazing.
Why would such a fantastic system collapse and GDP never budge?
Truly a mystery.




Soviet Union also beat the United States to space and even today the bulk of tech up there is Russian so that kind of minimizes your argument that the Soviet Union couldn't do anything good.


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24356942 - 05/28/17 05:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?


--------------------
:goat: "1234go was the type of kid that eats a bananna with two hands."


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: TNK]
    #24356951 - 05/28/17 05:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TNK said:
Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?




The Soviet Union was invaded.


--------------------


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InvisibleBlueMillionMiles
Heavily Metaled
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Registered: 03/12/16
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24356954 - 05/28/17 05:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

"As we mentioned in the previous post, socialism’s core principle is that you have two groups of people: The “haves” and the “have-nots”. The “haves” have more than they “deserve” because they’ve only gotten what they have by taking it from the “have-nots”, so it is the socialist state’s duty to reclaim the wealth the “haves” have “stolen” from the “have-nots” and redistribute it “fairly.”

Introducing the bell curve, because everything is distributed that way. It’s also called a Gaussian Distribution, at least where we come from:

It works for everything, literally. If the X-axis is cholesterol level, then the Y-axis is the percentage of people with that particular level of cholesterol in their blood. Same if it’s IQ, shoe size or number of times they’ve cried watching “It’s a Beautiful Life”. You have the tip of the curve in the middle, which is where most individuals find themselves. We’ll leave aside for now that some distributions, a lot of them actually, are not perfectly bell-shaped in that the “slope” on the left and right side aren’t exact mirror images of each other. It’s irrelevant. What’s relevant is that there is a peak and there are left and right slopes.

For this post, we’re going to go with the X-axis representing “wealth.” The tip of the curve is then “average wealth.” The further above or below average wealth that you are, the smaller part of the population you belong to. In a socialist dystopia, the tip of the curve represents where you “should” be. If you’re to the left, you’ve been robbed, and if you’re to the right, you’ve unfairly “exploited” those to the left.

What socialism then claims to do is to take the wealth on the right and distribute it to the left. In the name of “fairness.”

Of course that’s a great deal for those living on the left slope, because they’ll now get for “free” what those living on the right slope enjoy. No effort required, because they’re “entitled”, don’t you know? After all, those on the right slope never truly “earned” it, they just stole it from those on the left. As a result, you won’t see those living on the left slope objecting to higher taxes on those on the right. They’re not paying for it, after all, they’re receiving the free lunches, and who doesn’t like free lunches? But we’re getting ahead of ourself.

So far, so good. Now, it also doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that living on the right slope really sucks compared to living on the left slope. Everything you’ve earned above the socialist approved median will be taken away from you and given to those who didn’t earn it.

What’s the logical conclusion to that, if you’re a rational human being? It’s to simply quit living over there on the over-taxed right slope and just move in with the guys on the left slope who don’t have to lift a finger. You can earn $100,000 a year and have the $50,000 that you earn above average taken away from you, or you can work for only three months a year, earning $25,000, and get $25,000 of Other People’s Money to make up for the shortfall, netting you the same $50,000 a year.

Not rocket science.

Unfortunately, and this is where socialism always fails, that $25,000 you get from sitting on your arse 3/4 of the year has to come from somebody stupid enough to still work for 12 months a year, making the $100,000 you used to make. And when you moved in on the left slope, there was at least one less of those. Because government doesn’t create wealth, that’s what you used to do, government only redistributes it.

But, as more and more of people who are smarter than phlegm, and those would be pretty much everybody living on the right slope of the bell curve, change their zip code to the left slope and decide to, literally, spend more time with their families, that source of wealth that the socialist state can rob from diminishes ever more.

And as the amount of produced wealth diminishes, so does the average or “peak” of the bell curve, so where the average when we started might be the $50,000 in our example, it will soon move ever downward as more and more people decide that “the fuck with this noise, I’m not going to work my arse off if I don’t get to keep any of it.” The bell curve doesn’t disappear magically, as socialists always promise in the beginning, it just shifts to the left. Until the average is so low that the whole house of cards tumble because you can’t survive on it.

But that’s after the gulags get built.

Math doesn’t lie, and this is the simplest math there is.

Still, maybe we really ought to make a Power Point demonstration and start touring the country with it, because it seems to be too complicated for this nation as well.

Thatisall."  http://nicedoggie.net/?p=5455


--------------------
Intellectual property & copyright laws took care of the privileged few,  while we just pay more for less shit, have no privacy, and can't scratch our ass without a follow-up targeted ad for over-priced hemorrhoid cream.


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InvisibleCyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
Re: Why Socialism? [Re: TNK]
    #24356955 - 05/28/17 05:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TNK said:
Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?



I dunno I guess Cinnamon wants the US to be the world police


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24356956 - 05/28/17 05:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Soviet Union also beat the United States to space and even today the bulk of tech up there is Russian so that kind of minimizes your argument that the Soviet Union couldn't do anything good.




Space...

You're using that to justify a shitty system?

North Korea just launched Scud missiles and have a space program. Kwangmyŏngsŏng-4
guess North Korea is a tech giant, all suffering and shitty policy begone! for they have launched things to space!

Fuck me.


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24356957 - 05/28/17 05:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

TNK said:
Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?



I dunno I guess Cinnamon wants the US to be the world police




Better the U.S than Russia.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon] * 1
    #24356961 - 05/28/17 05:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:


Soviet Union also beat the United States to space and even today the bulk of tech up there is Russian so that kind of minimizes your argument that the Soviet Union couldn't do anything good.




Space...

You're using that to justify a shitty system?

North Korea just launched Scud missiles and have a space program. Kwangmyŏngsŏng-4
guess North Korea is a tech giant, all suffering and shitty policy begone! for they have launched things to space!

Fuck me.




I hope youre being intentionally disingenuous and not really this dense.

The Soviets were the first in space. Nobody is lauding the DPRK for doing it 70 years later.


--------------------


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InvisibleCyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope

Registered: 02/24/17
Posts: 2,503
Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon] * 1
    #24356962 - 05/28/17 05:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

TNK said:
Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?



I dunno I guess Cinnamon wants the US to be the world police




Better the U.S than Russia.



:lol::facepalm:


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: TNK]
    #24356963 - 05/28/17 05:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TNK said:
Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?





what even is WWII?

Slashed military budget to pay for a feel-good-fantasy is moronic.

Better off fixing the economy.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon] * 2
    #24356964 - 05/28/17 05:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

TNK said:
Wait, considering the Soviet union didn't get invaded, what's wrong with a "slashed military budget"?



I dunno I guess Cinnamon wants the US to be the world police




Better the U.S than Russia.




I would take Russia getting their soldiers blown to shit over nothing in the desert if that meant I could have healthcare, a liveable wage, and an education.

By the way, raising the minimum wage would DECREASE social spending, it seems youre suggesting the opposite.


--------------------


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24356975 - 05/28/17 05:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:


Soviet Union also beat the United States to space and even today the bulk of tech up there is Russian so that kind of minimizes your argument that the Soviet Union couldn't do anything good.




Space...

You're using that to justify a shitty system?

North Korea just launched Scud missiles and have a space program. Kwangmyŏngsŏng-4
guess North Korea is a tech giant, all suffering and shitty policy begone! for they have launched things to space!

Fuck me.




I hope youre being intentionally disingenuous and not really this dense.

The Soviets were the first in space. Nobody is lauding the DPRK for doing it 70 years later.




And Nazi Germany built the first space capable rocket.
National socialism truly is the solution!

Not to mention...
  • first rocket plane
  • first rocket program
  • first tailless aircraft
  • first assault rifle


Wow! a whole world of firsts! it's almost like science and technology doesn't care about political systems, only funding and brains!


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24356977 - 05/28/17 05:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Why would such a fantastic system collapse and GDP never budge?
Truly a mystery.



Who told you GDP never budged?  That's a lie:


And the Soviet Union didn't 'collapse'.  It converted to capitalism exactly in a way the United States advised them to, by giving the country's leadership everything, making them instant billionaires so they wouldn't resist the change.  It hurt the people a lot, but those in leadership positions didn't complain.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 27,937
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Last seen: 2 hours, 13 minutes
Re: Why Socialism? [Re: Cinnamon] * 1
    #24356981 - 05/28/17 05:28 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:


Soviet Union also beat the United States to space and even today the bulk of tech up there is Russian so that kind of minimizes your argument that the Soviet Union couldn't do anything good.




Space...

You're using that to justify a shitty system?

North Korea just launched Scud missiles and have a space program. Kwangmyŏngsŏng-4
guess North Korea is a tech giant, all suffering and shitty policy begone! for they have launched things to space!

Fuck me.




I hope youre being intentionally disingenuous and not really this dense.

The Soviets were the first in space. Nobody is lauding the DPRK for doing it 70 years later.




And Nazi Germany built the first space capable rocket.
National socialism truly is the solution!

Not to mention...
  • first rocket plane
  • first rocket program
  • first tailless aircraft
  • first assault rifle


Wow! a whole world of firsts! it's almost like science and technology doesn't care about political systems, only funding and brains!




Exactly. So why are you pretending that socialism is an impediment to those things?


--------------------


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Why Socialism? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24356987 - 05/28/17 05:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



Exactly. So why are you pretending that socialism is an impediment to those things?




LOL WHAT?
you're the one pretending it ENABLED those things.
by insinuating because they got shit to space it couldn't have been that bad and was actually pretty good


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