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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Religious nutters starve boy to death
    #8801317 - 08/20/08 04:49 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Why are you always so critical of believers, Swami? Where is the harm from fundamentalist beliefs?





'Cult' starved boy who wouldn't say 'amen'

August 12, 2008

A toddler whose remains were found inside a suitcase in Philadelphia was starved to death by members of a religious cult, including his mother, in part because he refused to say "amen" after meals.

- Mother's murder charge
- Mum 'followed instructions'
- Clothing, mattress burned

Ria Ramkissoon, the mother of Javon Thompson, was charged yesterday with first-degree murder in the boy's death, and Baltimore police said today that three other members of a group called 1 Mind Ministries have also been charged with first-degree murder.

Police and Ramkissoon's family say the group is a cult.

Members did not seek medical care for Javon when he stopped breathing, and the boy died in his mother's arms, according to court documents that described police interviews with a confidential informant and two children. He would have been about 19 months old when police say adults stopped feeding him in December 2006.

Ramkissoon, 21, was being held in the psychiatric ward of Baltimore's Central Booking and Intake Centre, and a bail review was postponed until tomorrow. Her public defender declined comment.

The three other people charged in Javon's death - Queen Antoinette, 40, also known as Toni Ellsberry or Toni Sloan; Marcus Cobbs, 21; and Trevia Williams, who turns 21 tomorrow - were already in custody. They were arrested in May in New York City on warrants charging them with failure to appear in court in Baltimore. Those charges stemmed from a scuffle with police in a child custody dispute.

A fifth alleged cult member, Steven Bynum, has been charged in a warrant with first-degree murder and remains at large. He was believed to be in New York.

Ramkissoon's family said she should not be held responsible for her son's death.

"She had no control over that situation at all," her stepfather, Craig Newton.

Ramkissoon's mother, Seeta Khadan-Newton, told The (Baltimore) Sun it wasn't her daughter's decision not to feed the boy.

"My daughter was a victim, just like my grandson," Khadan-Newton said. "Somebody made that decision to not feed that child, and my daughter had to follow instructions."

According to court documents, Ramkissoon joined 1 Mind Ministries after Javon was born. Ramkissoon's mother last saw her daughter in April 2006; she later sued for custody of her grandson, writing in a letter to a judge that "the cult leaders" were preventing her from contacting her daughter.

The documents show police interviewed two school-age children who had been part of the group but were taken away from members by Philadelphia police. The children told investigators that members stopped feeding Javon in December 2006, in part because the boy refused to say "amen" after dinner. Members also viewed Javon as "a demon".

Another unnamed informant told police that after Javon died, Antoinette left the boy's body in a room for more than a week, claiming "God was going to raise Javon from the dead," the documents shosw.

Afterward, Antoinette burned the boy's clothing and a mattress and placed his body in a green suitcase, which she would periodically open and spray with disinfectant to mask the odor, police claim in the court documents.

In early 2007, the group members left Baltimore for Philadelphia. They left the green suitcase and other luggage inside a shed belonging to a man they befriended while there, police said, and then relocated to Brooklyn, New York.

Police recovered the suitcase in April after they got a tip from the confidential informant. The remains of a small child were inside. DNA tests are pending to confirm the boy's identity.



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801354 - 08/20/08 04:59 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Members also viewed Javon as "a demon".




The members starved the boy to death as punishment for not saying amen and the boy is the demon?

Hmmmmmmmmm:crazy:

There are some sick puppies in this world.

This sickness goes beyond some religious nutters.

Here in Florida we had a lady who took on a Foster child to get the monthly checks, all the while she had locked the girl in the basement and let her starve to death.

The world also has religious nutters like Mother Theresa who go around feeding starving children.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8801374 - 08/20/08 05:03 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The world also has religious nutters like Mother Theresa who go around feeding starving children.




Apparently you have not read about MT in depth. Though I am not expecting perfection, she did many non-saintly things. Do some research and get back to me.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801390 - 08/20/08 05:07 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I don't think they'll be awarding the Nobel Peace Price to "Queen Antoinette" in this lifetime.  :tongue:


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801396 - 08/20/08 05:08 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

:nonono:

Holding unalterable belief in a changing world is dangerous.

I.E, dead kids. God should have saved them?

Maybe, if god is real, he did want to save them. Maybe it was by means of presenting a critical thought to the parents, use what we have or say pretty words to the ceiling?

Saying pretty words to the ceiling has obviously helped inspire some great information later, but when you have treatment... effective and available to those doing the praying?



~Monk


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801434 - 08/20/08 05:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

So do you think it was the religious part or the nutter part that is to blame?

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

Apparently you have not read about MT in depth. Though I am not expecting perfection, she did many non-saintly things. Do some research and get back to me.




Well, if you have read about Mother Teresa in depth, maybe you could back up your claim yourself?  We the uninformed would be grateful.  I did a bit of web snooping on the topic and didn't come up with much convincing criticism of Mother Teresa.  As of right now I still picture her as someone who spent most of her life helping people; please set me straight.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8801477 - 08/20/08 05:27 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

She has also been criticized for her view on suffering: according to an article in the Alberta Report, she felt that suffering would bring people closer to Jesus.[30] The quality of care offered to terminally ill patients in the Homes for the Dying has been criticised in the medical press, notably The Lancet and the British Medical Journal, which reported the reuse of hypodermic needles, poor living conditions, including the use of cold baths for all patients, and an anti-materialist approach that precluded the use of systematic diagnosis.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa

http://slate.msn.com/id/2090083

She also claimed that abortion was the "greatest destroyer of peace," in her acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize, and publicly campaigned against both abortion and birth control.  Coming from someone who has seen the hellish life of unwanted children born in the world's worst slums, this attitude seems both dogmatic and without compassion.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: Veritas]
    #8801489 - 08/20/08 05:30 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

You know how to use Google?


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801499 - 08/20/08 05:33 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I don't like Google.  I prefer the Yahoo! Search engine. :grin:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: Veritas]
    #8801506 - 08/20/08 05:36 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Search this! :ass:


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801509 - 08/20/08 05:37 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Are you requesting a body-cavity search?  Don't you get enough of those at the airport?  :lol:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: Veritas]
    #8801519 - 08/20/08 05:39 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I don't even fly, I just like to go through the security checkpoint...


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801630 - 08/20/08 06:04 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I called her a religious nutter too.

You know my point was that there are religious people who go out of their way to feed other neglectful peoples starving children.

Child abuse is not limited to religious nutters and not all religious nutters are child abusers.

I don't think that bashing religion is going to help find solutions to child abuse.

It almost seems like you are exploiting the abuse this child suffered to take opportunity to bash on religion.

Do you equally care when non religious people kill their children for non religious reasons?

What about that mom who strapped her kids into their car seats and then pushed them into the lake to drown them, so her boyfriend would want to be with her?

I gave an example of that other lady who let a foster child entrusted to her, starve for greed.

Are they just plain nutters?

Which kind is salted?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801631 - 08/20/08 06:04 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
I don't like Google.  I prefer the Yahoo! Search engine. :grin:




:puke:


Anyway, yeah these people may have been nuts without religion interfering, but this fanaticism certainly doesn't make matters any better.


Edited by Sleepwalker (08/20/08 06:06 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8801637 - 08/20/08 06:05 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Each to his own.  Anyone who prefers large numbers of irrelevant hits is free to utilize Google.  :grin:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8801729 - 08/20/08 06:26 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Do you equally care when non religious people kill their children for non religious reasons?





Read and study this part carefully.

Both non-religious and religious people hurt their children for the same non-religious reasons. This is about the same for both groups.

However, only religious people have the ADDITIONAL reason for hurting their children for religious beliefs.


--------------------


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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8801798 - 08/20/08 06:45 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Why are you always so critical of believers, Swami? Where is the harm from fundamentalist beliefs?





'Cult' starved boy who wouldn't say 'amen'

August 12, 2008

A toddler whose remains were found inside a suitcase in Philadelphia was starved to death by members of a religious cult, including his mother, in part because he refused to say "amen" after meals.

- Mother's murder charge
- Mum 'followed instructions'
- Clothing, mattress burned

Ria Ramkissoon, the mother of Javon Thompson, was charged yesterday with first-degree murder in the boy's death, and Baltimore police said today that three other members of a group called 1 Mind Ministries have also been charged with first-degree murder.

Police and Ramkissoon's family say the group is a cult.

Members did not seek medical care for Javon when he stopped breathing, and the boy died in his mother's arms, according to court documents that described police interviews with a confidential informant and two children. He would have been about 19 months old when police say adults stopped feeding him in December 2006.

Ramkissoon, 21, was being held in the psychiatric ward of Baltimore's Central Booking and Intake Centre, and a bail review was postponed until tomorrow. Her public defender declined comment.

The three other people charged in Javon's death - Queen Antoinette, 40, also known as Toni Ellsberry or Toni Sloan; Marcus Cobbs, 21; and Trevia Williams, who turns 21 tomorrow - were already in custody. They were arrested in May in New York City on warrants charging them with failure to appear in court in Baltimore. Those charges stemmed from a scuffle with police in a child custody dispute.

A fifth alleged cult member, Steven Bynum, has been charged in a warrant with first-degree murder and remains at large. He was believed to be in New York.

Ramkissoon's family said she should not be held responsible for her son's death.

"She had no control over that situation at all," her stepfather, Craig Newton.

Ramkissoon's mother, Seeta Khadan-Newton, told The (Baltimore) Sun it wasn't her daughter's decision not to feed the boy.

"My daughter was a victim, just like my grandson," Khadan-Newton said. "Somebody made that decision to not feed that child, and my daughter had to follow instructions."

According to court documents, Ramkissoon joined 1 Mind Ministries after Javon was born. Ramkissoon's mother last saw her daughter in April 2006; she later sued for custody of her grandson, writing in a letter to a judge that "the cult leaders" were preventing her from contacting her daughter.

The documents show police interviewed two school-age children who had been part of the group but were taken away from members by Philadelphia police. The children told investigators that members stopped feeding Javon in December 2006, in part because the boy refused to say "amen" after dinner. Members also viewed Javon as "a demon".

Another unnamed informant told police that after Javon died, Antoinette left the boy's body in a room for more than a week, claiming "God was going to raise Javon from the dead," the documents shosw.

Afterward, Antoinette burned the boy's clothing and a mattress and placed his body in a green suitcase, which she would periodically open and spray with disinfectant to mask the odor, police claim in the court documents.

In early 2007, the group members left Baltimore for Philadelphia. They left the green suitcase and other luggage inside a shed belonging to a man they befriended while there, police said, and then relocated to Brooklyn, New York.

Police recovered the suitcase in April after they got a tip from the confidential informant. The remains of a small child were inside. DNA tests are pending to confirm the boy's identity.






Frankly, the boy was a bit of an idiot in the first place.  If the persons in authority who control your life tell you that you'll get no food if you don't say amen, you better damn well say amen if you want to keep living.  The world doesn't always cave to your whims, and although this is obviously a tragic case, he should have been a lot smarter about making sure he'd stay alive rather than being stubborn and starving for it.

Edit: NVM, didn't catch the 19 months old part.  That makes it somewhat more excusable. :lol:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: deCypher]
    #8801811 - 08/20/08 06:49 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Thats no arguement for doing what they did.

Organized religion is organized by humans remember, we're kinda crazy :crazy2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: Chronic7]
    #8801873 - 08/20/08 07:03 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Who disorganizes disorganized religion?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Religious nutters starve boy to death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8802283 - 08/20/08 08:47 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Do you equally care when non religious people kill their children for non religious reasons?





Read and study this part carefully.

Both non-religious and religious people hurt their children for the same non-religious reasons. This is about the same for both groups.

However, only religious people have the ADDITIONAL reason for hurting their children for religious beliefs.




I hear ya. My dad use to lean on the "Don't spare the rod to spoil the child" crapola as his justification for hitting us. I think, if that Bible line never existed, he still would've hit us because that's what he learned from his parents and never got over it and decided to break the chain.

In other words, I think some mildly to very disturbed people use the Bible or religion as an excuse to justify warped behavior. If they weren't religious, I think they would have some other excuse for justifying their warped behavior.

We can burn the Bible tomorrow, fine with me. Child abuse won't stop though.

What's weird is that, these parents will got to jail for murder. Yet, in other impoverished places in this world, there are parents, who do not have the ability to feed their children and they starve to death. Those parents don't go to jail for murder.

I know intent to kill matters in the courts. What is the intention of people who get pregnant who have no means of caring for the life of the child, and it dies from starvation?

This planet has some Big problems, and if we removed religion from the face of the earth tomorrow, the same basic problems would still be here, justified in the minds of some, by other twisted cacophony.

Besides, you are preaching to the choir here. I doubt there is any shrommerite who would intentionally starve their own children to death in the name of their religion.

I don't even know of any P&S regulars that belong to a church.

Why not find some fundy forum and post this news story there. If you do, share the link with us. :hehehe:


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