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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
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Responsibility and morality
#8800751 - 08/20/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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To what degree are we morally responsible for others around us?
Every time I see a homeless dude trying to sell his stack of big issues I feel morally obliged to help in some manner, but then on the other hand the guys own actions have resulted in him being homeless, so why should I help?
Where do we draw the lines? what drives us to conform to these moral standards to begin with? Have morals evolved as a consequence of the civilisation of the human race, or is it some kind of primal instinct?
Just trying to invoke some intelligent discussion and some actual thought.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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CherryBom
Yoga Gypsy
Registered: 12/26/98
Posts: 11,177
Loc: Ontario
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800820 - 08/20/08 12:21 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was downtown last night and I walked past a homeless guy having a conversation with a chef taking a smoke break. The homeless guy was telling the chef all his problems, why he ended up homeless, his ex-wife took all his money and his kids, etc... The chef was just standing there smiling and nodding and smoking his ciggarette.
I couldn't help applaud the chef for his patience. I don't mind having any kind of conversation with any kind of person, but I have zero interest in listening to someone tell me all about thier problems without so much as a 'how are you today?'
I'm a bartender. I listen to A LOT of peoples problems. human beings love to get drunk and open up to the person who opens up their beers. I probably couldn't care less about the personal problems of a stranger on the street, I only slightly care about the problems of regular customers who tell me thier life stories. I remain detached on purpose to protect myself from becoming emotionally attached. I have MY OWN issues, personal and otherwise, to deal with.
I work with a girl who is 22 years old and has 2 kids and a deadbeat baby daddy. I am absolutly sick and tired of hearing about her problems, emotionally, financially whatever. Some people are extremely self centered. Everyone on this planet has issues, has problems. That is pretty much why we are here. To work them out.
So to what degree are we morally responsible for the people around us? Well I guess that depends who the people are. Friends and family? Co-workers, aquantinces? The cashier at the grocery store? The homeless guy camped out behind your restaurant?
I humor many people over the course of a day. I don't let thier problems become my responsibility...but I am usually willing to listen. Not always though. I know this guy who comes to the bar and drinks like 14 beers and talks about his ex-wife using terms like 'bitch' and 'cunt' and then he slides me his number and tells me to call him sometime.
Those kind of people...I have zero sympathy for.
--------------------
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circularvortex
Bass Head
Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 12,148
Loc:
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800826 - 08/20/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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If electricity comes from electrons...
does morality come from morons?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction. For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool By making his world a little colder. Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800863 - 08/20/08 12:34 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's my belief that you are responsible for no one but yourself and your actions.
This doesn't mean that you should go around treating people like shit, because that would not be taking responsibility for yourself.
Likewise, it doesn't mean you should never show acts of compassion for those in need either. It just means it is not your responsibility to take care of every underprivileged person you see. If you feel like you want to help and can afford it, do so. If you don't or can't I won't judge you as any less.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: CherryBom]
#8800888 - 08/20/08 12:37 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most people I've met so far in the world have all been decent people at heart, I believe that everyone is inherently good and that as a result of social conditioning people act the way they do.
As a bartender, I guess its part of your job description to socialize with the customers... Hospitality is a moral value that seems to be in decline and I imagine having a stranger to pour their hearts out to really does help in a lot of circumstances... Everyone has problems, but only a few people will listen to what others have to say.
We're social beings; if everyone around us is unhappy, then we ourselves become unhappy... Compassion is in my opinion a key moral value that people should display. We shouldn't let our own problems get in the way of happiness.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 7 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Redstorm]
#8800932 - 08/20/08 12:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Individualism then? You don't care because it has no significant effect on your life?
Why do we not have a sense of community any more? and why is it really difficult to spark up a meaningful conversation with complete strangers (unless both parties are inebriated)?
I think that if we are able to help (i.e. it doesn't jeopardize your own situation) then we should help.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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aDoS
freedom lover
Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 7,590
Loc: land of the free
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800945 - 08/20/08 12:53 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I look out for myself. If I didn't screw someone over, I do not feel obligated to help them in anyway. Especially if they are not family or close friends. I really wouldn't care if they were dead or not.
The family I help out is limited too, I really don't give a shit about distant relatives.
I am pretty much selfish and I look out for myself.
-------------------- "If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
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Last seen: 7 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: aDoS]
#8800953 - 08/20/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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What motivates your selfish attitude?
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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aDoS
freedom lover
Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 7,590
Loc: land of the free
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800961 - 08/20/08 12:59 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Pleasure I guess, helping others takes away from me...I don't really know though. I really don't like all that many people, so it makes it easier to not give a shit about them.
-------------------- "If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800968 - 08/20/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cepheus said: Individualism then? You don't care because it has no significant effect on your life?
Why do we not have a sense of community any more? and why is it really difficult to spark up a meaningful conversation with complete strangers (unless both parties are inebriated)?
I think that if we are able to help (i.e. it doesn't jeopardize your own situation) then we should help.
That's not what I meant. I apologize it I didn't make myself clear.
It's not that I don't believe that community or helping others is important, it's just that not everyone can afford to support random strangers. In my opinion, it is one's moral responsibility:
1) take care of ones self. If you can not take care of yourself and be responsible for and happy with who you are, you are not in a position to help anyone else.
2.) take care of those you love and care for. Depending on the person, this could be friends, family, or a significant other.
3.) if you have the ability to help others at this point, the is the priority I would give strangers. I put them this far down the priority scale because you don't know their background or why they're asking you for help.
It must be noted that there are many ways to help people, most of which do not involve a transfer of material possessions. Helping someone can also be as simple as listening o them when they need someone to talk to. Also, you can help many people by volunteering at homeless shelters or soup kitchens without spending a dime of your own money.
I try to do all I can to help, even with my limited financial situation, but I do not fault anyone who takes care of themselves and their friends and family first. If everyone took care of their friends and family, there would be barely any strangers for anyone else to take care of.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 7 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: aDoS]
#8800993 - 08/20/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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What don't you like about other people? All of us people on this board are completely random people. We could pass each other everyday on the street and we'd never know.
Some of the most pleasurable experiences known to man require other people... Shit, have you ever chilled with 100s of like minded individuals? The feeling of energy, acceptance and understanding is completely overwhelming (particularly if you're all on mind bending drugs ).
I think people are selfish because its easier... its a safer position; if you don't interact with any body then no-ones going to make you feel bad... but I think most people have an over inflated sense of self worth, which degrades interactions... If everyone was who they really are around other people, then its my opinion that selfishness wouldn't be so common. This is why the internet is so popular; people can be who they really are and say what they really think without any of the social ramifications that would reciprocate from the situation in real life.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8800996 - 08/20/08 01:09 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Making other people feel good makes me happy. As far as homeless people go, I refuse to give them change because I'm afraid it will fuel their drug addictions. I do offer them food or a drink on occasion if I'm in a good move or under the influence. I try to be genuinely compassionate, but I'm still pretty selfish most of the time.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 7 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Redstorm]
#8801015 - 08/20/08 01:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Indeed. Actions are worth much more than money.
I agree with all the points raised and I try to live the same way.
Being responsible for yourself is of utmost priority... If you're not happy with who you are and what you do, how can you possibly begin to help other people?
"You must be the change you want to see in the world". "Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony".
"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty". -Mahatma Gandhi
(someone else has always said it better ).
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 7 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cameron]
#8801033 - 08/20/08 01:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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That dichotomy also plagues me . I've often contemplated smoking a homeless dude out. I randomly smoked out 2 Czech Republic dudes the other day who were looking for some ganja .
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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silly_sigh_ben
no longer here
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 338
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8801044 - 08/20/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am not responsible for anyone. I am responsible to some people to lesser or greater degrees based on promises, commitments, etc.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
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Last seen: 7 hours, 56 minutes
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Do you not feel compassion for other human beings, other than those you depend upon?
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Cowgold
Bullshit
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8801091 - 08/20/08 01:40 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't feel moraly obligated to help anyone if I don't feel like it. When I help someone, it's because I want to. If it's ever expected or unappreciated, I stop.
Warren buffet can't afford to help everyone in need, either.
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silly_sigh_ben
no longer here
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8801117 - 08/20/08 01:48 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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compassion has nothing to do with moral responsibility. I am responsible to all people to some extent. I am responsible to the God of my understanding to a great extent. I believe my God wants me to be compassionate toward others, and while I am extremely selfish I try to respect other people and to lend a hand often. I donate over 10% of my annual income to charitable organizations because I believe it is the right thing to do. Yet, I am responsible FOR no person. How could I be responsible FOR another person? I'm not God. If a person does anything, I have no responsibility for that action. If someone slits their wrists after I call them a mother fucking loser, I'm not responsible for their action. I do not pretend to have that kind of power.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8801118 - 08/20/08 01:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cepheus said: To what degree are we morally responsible for others around us?
Only to the degree that we choose to be. If we let others impose moral responsibility onto us, it has ceased being moral and has become dogma.
That being said, I choose to be morally responsible for myself and those that I love. Frankly, I could care less about anyone else.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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silly_sigh_ben
no longer here
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8801132 - 08/20/08 01:53 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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also, I don't "depend on" other people. I trust that other people will be true to their word. If they're not, I haven't lost a damned thing. I go on and take care of myself.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Redstorm]
#8801378 - 08/20/08 03:04 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: It's my belief that you are responsible for no one but yourself and your actions.
This doesn't mean that you should go around treating people like shit, because that would not be taking responsibility for yourself.
Likewise, it doesn't mean you should never show acts of compassion for those in need either. It just means it is not your responsibility to take care of every underprivileged person you see. If you feel like you want to help and can afford it, do so. If you don't or can't I won't judge you as any less.
This is pretty much how I feel about it.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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I am responsible for nobody and nobody should be made to feel responsible for me. Do not the homeless man make you feel guilty. Be proud of your hard-earned money and do not let him state 'need' as his claim to your profit. When you feel needless guilt for his state of poverty, you are giving him your sanction; in essence rewarding the weak and punishing those who deserve their money.
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demiu5
humans, lol
Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cepheus]
#8801490 - 08/20/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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until you have children, the only person you are responsible for is you. and even that could be debated that one is not responsible for their children
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Jack yo Self foo
The Artful Dodger
Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 3,096
Loc: Where the red fern grows....
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cameron]
#8801531 - 08/20/08 03:42 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cameron said: Making other people feel good makes me happy. As far as homeless people go, I refuse to give them change because I'm afraid it will fuel their drug addictions. I do offer them food or a drink on occasion if I'm in a good move or under the influence. I try to be genuinely compassionate, but I'm still pretty selfish most of the time.
don't you see though...helping others is really making yourself happy...sure they may appreciate the help....
but it is you who are feeling better about yourself...that in itself could verifiably be considered a selfish act...couldn't it??
-------------------- You learn something new everyday, so be sure you learn something from it.
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Yes, that's why I said that I'm pretty selfish most of the time. Last night I bought an old, wheelchair-stricken homeless man a cup of hot chocolate on a whim. I wasn't expecting much out of it, but I was happy to see the surprise on his face when I actually came back with the drink. My friends asked where I had been and when I told them, they praised me and practically made me out to be a saint (which I am not ). My rewards for that good deed continued to flow in throughout the night: I made a lot of good first impressions and the positive feedback gave me a considerable ego-boost. The old man's happiness probably ran dry as his hot chocolate ran low, so I am almost positive that I got more out of that interaction than he did, and I'm sure that prospect was in the back of my mind when I offered to buy him a drink. I'm just glad that my selfishness takes form in good and not rotten deeds.
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Boots]
#8801944 - 08/20/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boots said: I am responsible for nobody and nobody should be made to feel responsible for me. Do not the homeless man make you feel guilty. Be proud of your hard-earned money and do not let him state 'need' as his claim to your profit. When you feel needless guilt for his state of poverty, you are giving him your sanction; in essence rewarding the weak and punishing those who deserve their money.
If you haven't heard their life story, what right do you have to call them weak? If you think everyone is privileged to a sunny childhood, you are wrong.
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circularvortex
Bass Head
Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 12,148
Loc:
Last seen: 26 days, 2 hours
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cameron]
#8802002 - 08/20/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I hold doors open for people.
I don't give homeless people money.
I don't give away cigarettes (Well, I've quit recently, but I loved it before when somebody I don't know would see me smoking and walk up and ask to bum one. I'd look 'em dead in the eyes, take a drag, blow it out, and then say, "I don't smoke.")
I help my friends out. I help my family out. I'd say I put more emphasis on my friends than my family, but typically my family is better off than my friends.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction. For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool By making his world a little colder. Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
circularvortex said:I loved it before when somebody I don't know would see me smoking and walk up and ask to bum one. I'd look 'em dead in the eyes, take a drag, blow it out, and then say, "I don't smoke.")
You, sir, are EVIL.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cameron]
#8804781 - 08/21/08 09:46 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cameron said:
Quote:
Boots said: I am responsible for nobody and nobody should be made to feel responsible for me. Do not the homeless man make you feel guilty. Be proud of your hard-earned money and do not let him state 'need' as his claim to your profit. When you feel needless guilt for his state of poverty, you are giving him your sanction; in essence rewarding the weak and punishing those who deserve their money.
If you haven't heard their life story, what right do you have to call them weak? If you think everyone is privileged to a sunny childhood, you are wrong.
I don't need a right to call them weak. Just as they don't need a right to be an eyesore to their communities and not contribute. People forget, the U.S.A. isn't the only place one can find jobs.
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Cowgold
Bullshit
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Cameron]
#8804852 - 08/21/08 09:55 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cameron said:
Quote:
Boots said: I am responsible for nobody and nobody should be made to feel responsible for me. Do not the homeless man make you feel guilty. Be proud of your hard-earned money and do not let him state 'need' as his claim to your profit. When you feel needless guilt for his state of poverty, you are giving him your sanction; in essence rewarding the weak and punishing those who deserve their money.
If you haven't heard their life story, what right do you have to call them weak? If you think everyone is privileged to a sunny childhood, you are wrong.
They're weak if they let their childhood dictate the rest of their life. Poor choices are the reason they're homeless, childhood bullshit is just an excuse to evade responsibility.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Boots]
#8805279 - 08/21/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nobody will hire the homeless. Many of them are mentally ill or otherwise unemployable. Once you're on the street, you're on the street. There's nowhere an employer can call you back, no place to take a shower and get ready for work, no fixed address to give them. To break the pattern is not something of which most people are capable. If people treat you like shit day in and day out, you probably don't have a lot of pride to work with. Fucking McDonald's won't even let you in the door, let alone hire you.
It is easy and callous to say "Be like me... make something of yourself." I think those of us who are employed and financially 'self-reliant' underestimate the role of luck on where we are in our lives. Nobody is entirely self-made; most of us are born into supportive systems of education, housing and family. We grow up as accepted members of society. Wherever you are in life, you didn't do it all yourself. People that have no such help face the impossible task of meeting our capitalist standards of living entirely on their own.
Yes, there are those beloved, heartwarming rags-to-riches stories, but the cold truth is that this kind of turnaround is well beyond the vast majority of people, and those who do succeed undoubtedly get a healthy dose of help from people who don't look at them like they're eyesores.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 1,137
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8809709 - 08/22/08 06:43 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
WhiskeyClone said: Nobody will hire the homeless. Many of them are mentally ill or otherwise unemployable. Once you're on the street, you're on the street. There's nowhere an employer can call you back, no place to take a shower and get ready for work, no fixed address to give them. To break the pattern is not something of which most people are capable. If people treat you like shit day in and day out, you probably don't have a lot of pride to work with. Fucking McDonald's won't even let you in the door, let alone hire you.
It is easy and callous to say "Be like me... make something of yourself." I think those of us who are employed and financially 'self-reliant' underestimate the role of luck on where we are in our lives. Nobody is entirely self-made; most of us are born into supportive systems of education, housing and family. We grow up as accepted members of society. Wherever you are in life, you didn't do it all yourself. People that have no such help face the impossible task of meeting our capitalist standards of living entirely on their own.
Yes, there are those beloved, heartwarming rags-to-riches stories, but the cold truth is that this kind of turnaround is well beyond the vast majority of people, and those who do succeed undoubtedly get a healthy dose of help from people who don't look at them like they're eyesores.
I understand that I am very lucky to be born white and in a middle-class family. I also understand how hard it must be to be homeless. However, bad choices lead to bad outcomes. I find it hard to believe that all that are currently homeless were born homeless.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Responsibility and morality [Re: Boots]
#8809742 - 08/22/08 06:57 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are always going to be people that end up at the bottom of the pile. Whether it's bad choices or bad circumstances that put them there, I think their chances are better if we treat them like they are worth something, despite their lack of income. The "just get a damn job you bum" attitude exacerbates the homeless problem, IMO.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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