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InvisibleEgo Death
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Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ?
    #8799738 - 08/20/08 07:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I was told that you can't get more energy out than you put in.  What is happening here in this device, I don't understand!



I think that thing is really spinning there without electric motors but I don't understand why?
I know free energy hoaxes are common but that fact alone does not explain whats happening here.


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8799753 - 08/20/08 08:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's looks like some kind of simple magnetic repulsion. But if you put ANY resistance on that center piece, it's wouldn't spin...

Try grabbing my front tire when I accelerate. haha.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #8799778 - 08/20/08 08:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Theres is already the friction from the surface its spinning on though, so surely this is over-unity?


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InvisibleDoseMeHomie
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8799799 - 08/20/08 08:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I smell magent powered cars on the horizon


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: DoseMeHomie]
    #8799902 - 08/20/08 09:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn't look stable to me. He has to keep moving that ring. That's where the energy is coming from.

Otherwise he'd demonstrate it with a stationary frame to hold the ring, which would look more impressive.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8799944 - 08/20/08 09:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Take a small weight and tie a foot or so length of string to it.  Hold the string so that the weight hangs freely.  Watch, and be amazed as the weight starts to move, on its own!  What is really happening?  Your brain is constantly readjusting the position of your arm, trying to hold it in the same position.  These tiny movements are translated through the string, moving the weight slightly.  If you hang the string by something solid, (ignoring the coriolis effect), the weight stops moving.

Now, think about a big heavy pendulum swinging on a cable.  It takes a lot of effort to get the thing moving, but once it is moving, it takes very little to keep it moving.

Combine the above two ideas, and add some magnets, and you have your answer.  As he tries to hold the ring of magnets still, the slight movements of his muscles are transferred through the magnetic field to the top, causing it to spin a bit.  Each time the top spins a bit, it pushes back against the ring of magnets forcing his arm to adjust, pushing back against the top, causing it to spin a bit more.

Just like the string above, if he were to attach the ring of magnets to something solid, then nothing would happen (the top wouldn't spin).  If he put the ring of magnets on springs, and then added energy (by compressing the springs), you would see the top start to spin as the springs relax and compress.  Eventually, the energy stored in the springs would 'be consumed' and the system would come to a standstill.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8800181 - 08/20/08 11:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Here is the last thread about this youTube video, if your interested.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8359025#8359025


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InvisibleYthanA
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8801048 - 08/20/08 03:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I knew there was a reason I had this comic saved! :grin:



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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Ythan]
    #8802339 - 08/20/08 08:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

+1 on the cartoon, it perpetually extracts money.  and they said those things are a scam.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8803073 - 08/20/08 11:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
Theres is already the friction from the surface its spinning on though, so surely this is over-unity?




There is NO such thing as over-unity in a closed system.  The phrase 'over-unity' itself is psychological, since engineers wouldn't talk about 'unity', but rather 'reversibility'. 

Reversibility is the upper limit of efficiency.  The word 'unity' triggers some emotional circuits in the brain; nice, cuddly, wishful thinking; makes people easier to dupe; they want to think they've found something that solves all their problems. 

This guy is complete quackery.  The guy asks about magnetic polarity, and the fat fucker starts talking about 'vortexes' and 'spiritual balance' :rolleyes:

Anything that purports to break the 2nd law is a scam.  People gullible enough to fall for this kind of thing are the kind who demand the government come clean about the space aliens :rofl:

So yes, who ever told you that you can't get more energy out than you put in was right. 

If you want to know more, look up Entropy, and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.  (All hail the 2nd Law:  You can't break even :grin:)

As for the way his spinning top toy (it is a neat toy, after all, but little more than that) functions:  He is doing work on the system by moving the ring of magnets in his hand.  I defy him to duplicate the experiment with it mounted to be completely stationary.


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Edited by Minstrel (08/21/08 12:03 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Minstrel]
    #8803192 - 08/21/08 12:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The phrase 'over-unity' itself is psychological, since engineers wouldn't talk about 'unity', but rather 'reversibility'.





Unity is the correct word, its used in science all the time.  Its basically a snobby way of saying 1, so 'over-unity' means over 1 or over 100%.  :tongue2:


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8803243 - 08/21/08 12:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You must admit the word unity has more charm than the word reversible. 
Ya, unity is a correct word, but reversible is more correct, since it better describes the behavior of the system.  :tongue2:

A scammer wouldn't do so good to say his quack product was over-reversible:grin:


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Edited by Minstrel (08/21/08 12:15 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Minstrel]
    #8803261 - 08/21/08 12:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nor would it be good to call it a 'perpetual motion' machine, the investors would run.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8803282 - 08/21/08 12:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Semantics acting on emotions is important when manipulating people.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Minstrel]
    #8803377 - 08/21/08 12:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This is the closest experiment to breaking the 2nd Law I've ever seen.  It's about superfluid liquid helium (superfluid meaning a liquid which exhibits completely inviscid flow, helium at about 1.5K), and how it behaves when heated through capillaries.  The experiment I'm refering to is one about 6 minutes in.  Physics aficionados might be particularly interested to watch the whole collection from the start; this one is 3 of 5 (it really is fascinating cold stuff [a good :bongload: is a nice touch, too :tongue2:, they have some crazy glassware {dewars! yay!!!}]):

and no.... this is not about scamming people with perpetual-cashgrab, its just big bad science (fuckin' 1963, jfk's year)
 
This guy has the most delightful accent :grin:
If you have trouble navigating to find them all, I'll post em entirely.

Shit, can you tell I'm completely baked ^^


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Edited by Minstrel (08/21/08 12:44 AM)


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Offlinewatchoutnow
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: Minstrel]
    #8803496 - 08/21/08 01:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting to say the least.


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: watchoutnow]
    #8803682 - 08/21/08 02:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It is interesting, and mysterious.  I can barely understand it myself. 

A similar phenomenon is exhibited with superconductors, they can carry an electric current 'perpetually'.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is this free energy or just perfect unity or a hoax/trick ? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8805286 - 08/21/08 01:32 PM (10 years, 30 days ago)

And hence, can sustain a strong magnetic field perpetually, so long as it's kept cold.  I love NMR spectroscopy.


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