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Offlinekotik
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4916633 - 11/10/05 08:09 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

let us know when the book drops


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Invisiblespud
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4917750 - 11/10/05 01:57 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

What do you see the function of prayer as?


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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Swami]
    #4917819 - 11/10/05 02:15 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Forget my observation of people for a moment. The same thing occurs in the plant and animal kingdoms. I doubt the zebra feels a sense of oneness when the lion guts him.



And yet they are one, in the sense that they are part of a greater entity known as an ecosystem.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4919639 - 11/10/05 09:54 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

I like the use of the word "one-pointed". In my own quest for Truth I always maintained a curious mind-set at all times that I wanted to 'get to the bottom' of all, whether science, philosophy, or mythology. I was always a believer in evolution, but that did not explain the sheer complexity and order of existence. Likewise, I was skeptical of literalist interpretations of holy writ but nonetheless I persued the mystery, wanting to explore certain religious memories of my childhood. When I began experimenting with psychedelics I was able to experience myself as consciousness, which is not possible without the presence of the source of consciousness itself. A sense of "what was and what shall be" over took me, that being a sense of etnerity. The mysteries of God have been unravelling itself since the burst of time, and my desire to not be left behind only brought me closer to God. The only thing holding me back is the flesh that traps my spark - duality if you will. In order for God to reflect on His own mystery and beauty, he must allow something to escape his oneness, if only for awhile.


Edited by Unagipie (11/10/05 10:55 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4920112 - 11/11/05 12:09 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Which form: Thanksgiving, Intercessory, Petitionary or Contemplative? I give thanks often, I have asked for others to be healed (Intercessory), I have 'petitioned the Lord with prayer' (you CAN petition the Lord with prayer) and for very very specific things. I once asked for decent next-door neighbors, of Indian descent (secondarily, Chinese), with Ph.D.s, preferably in one of my preferred fields like mental health. I received a Christian Indian family, both adults with Ph.D.s, the woman a mental health counselor like myself. I am still astounded some 15 years later. I've pondered the whole incident as a precogition on my part that I interpreted as my own desire (but it WAS my desire - I'm into Indian culture), because psychic events are comprehensible while personal responses to petitionary prayer are mindblowing!

Contemplative prayer, or 'practicing the presence' is practically indistinguishable from 'meditation' in other traditions except for the intellectual belief component which personifies the Infinite. G-D however, is both personal and transpersonal according to Hindu theology - with attributes and without attributes - like the Muslim 99 Names of G-D and like the Buddhist Clear Light of the Void respectively.

I may think and verbalize in the first three forms of prayer despite the understanding that G-D, the 'Always So,' Knows what I think before I utter any manifest words, yet the process of praying is carried both on the 'carrier wave' of human communication as well as through the spiritual aspect of our being that is co-extensive (if not identical) with G-D (the Holy Spirit [Consciousness] which prayer within us).

Really it's simple - one just cries or talks to G-D. "Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven." It is simple, call me a simpleton.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblespud
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4920137 - 11/11/05 12:18 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Does God respond to the blind?

Is faith a precursor to "successful" prayer?

Could prayer be used as an intermediary tool for searching out divinity?

Should the curious, the seeking Gnostic pray?

And if so, any advice on how to go about it?


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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4920202 - 11/11/05 12:34 AM (16 years, 26 days ago)

MarkostheGnostic , i'm curious about your view on drugs and drug use. i originally thought of psychedelics as "God's drugs" but i've noticed many spiritual teachers have strongly advised against using drugs, even for purely spiritual purposes. assuming jesus was one of them how would that affect your feeling about him and your view of psychedelics? would you continue to use them anyway? how do you think natural psychedelics fit into creation as far as their purpose?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4921831 - 11/11/05 01:03 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

What does physical blindness have to do with non-interaction with G-D? G-D is the "Ground of Being" for all of existence even taken in a strictly non-theistic metaphysical sense. What about the deaf, the mute, the armless? All physical human attributes have their correspondences in the Divine (in Kabbalah), not necessarily because WE project and anthropomorphize, but because we are a Microcosm of the Macrocosm - created in the image and likeness of G-D. We 'grasp' things with Understanding [Binah] and with fingers. G-D may not have physical fingers, composed of 'digits,' but the word 'digit' also means number, and the Kabbalah is very numeralogical when it comes to G-D. As math-heads at the Shroomery like to point out about Fibonacci sequences and such.

One either chooses to believe, in which case one is 'Justified,' theologically speaking, or not. 'Sanctification' has to do with growth and development which occurs after one chooses to believe. Then the growth has to do with dethroning one's ego as the center of one's personality formation, and recognizing a New Center of personal development - Christ (the Self in Jung) which is 'wholly other' than one's ego. It is this Divine Indwelling, the "I live, yet not I; Christ liveth in me" that St. Paul wrote about. Successful prayer as I understand it is the alignment of one's ego with 'G-D's Will, not the reduction of G-D to one's 'genie-in-a-lamp.' Prayer, meaning moment-to-moment communion with Deity moves one in the direction of a successful spiritual development.

I do not understand your question about searching out divinity.

Anyone can pray. It is a matter of faith - the first step in acting outside of the dictates of sense and reason - to believe that the Ground of Reality is influenced by prayer. Some folks think that prayer is merely a technique for opening one's Heart through a 'Sacrificium Intellectus,' the objection to which is held by those who 'Pride' themselves on the impeccability of their logic. Faith and logic are two separate modes of apprehension, and one needs to be the Self behind both of those modes - not identified with one or the other to the detriment of one or the other.

Talk to G-D. At first your ego feels 'self-conscious' like it is talking to itself, or to the air. That is just ego stuff. If one is stopped by that, one can quickly see how egocentric, which is to say, how identified one is with one's ego. Some beginning activity is to begin Heart meditations aimed at 'Realizing' that G-D actually indwells the Heart. A Singularity - perhaps "search out" and contemplate the energy in your sino-atrial node - like the Glory that manifested between the wings of the Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant. Once you can establish the Truth of G-D's actual Presence in your Center (since G-D is at the Center of every atom, why not select a Point within?), then you can begin to make the transition between your identity with body and personality to the Self in your Heart. Here is a Kabbalistic book which describes the process in non-Christian terms:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/11/05 01:23 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Deviate]
    #4921868 - 11/11/05 01:19 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I think that recent research and scholarship on the Greek Mystery Religions and early Christianity show use of psychedelics. Modern spiritual leaders do not want individuals to think for themselves either. When I entered teacher training for Transcendental Meditation in the 70s, they asked us if we had used psychedelics. Psychedelics show one Gnosis under ideal conditions, and that makes priests and their monopoly of the sacraments superfluous, effectively putting the power and control structure out of business. It is more radical than the Protestant Reformation which highlighted 'a priesthood of believers,' it suggests a 'Body of Knowers.'

I do not need psychedelics/entheogens to Know the Truth. I already Know, and I discovered G-D through certain Psychedelic Experiences. The Psychedelic Experience was the 'vehicle' for me. It temporarily 'aligned' (as in the word 'religio') my individual awareness with the Universal Awareness. Or again, it temporarily 'realigned' my opaque carbon-based life into the adamantine crystaine form of a Diamond Body through which the Divine Light of Awareness could shine and Illuminate my being. I do not worship psychedelics any more than I worship the sacramental 'drug' wine (or bread for that matter - carbohydrates are 'comfort food' for very chemical reasons). I use psychedelics to help scrape off the 'barnacles' of modern life that keep attaching to my psychophysical 'vessel.' I try to live simply. I try to 'eat when I eat and drink when I drink.' I don't own a cell phone despite its usefulness, it begins to make one into a cyborg. I do not multi-task: that is the opposite of the aforementioned Zen statement and it is inimical to Enlightenent. I am not trying to be different, or weird, but that it what it looks like to the multitudes who live and move in The Matrix.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4921880 - 11/11/05 01:23 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

I think that recent research and scholarship on the Greek Mystery Religions and early Christianity show use of psychedelics.



Just out of curiosity -- which ones? Mushrooms? I'm not aware of what kinds of psychedelics are found in that region.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4921899 - 11/11/05 01:32 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

i wasn't talking about preists or modern spiritual leaders but even men like buddha and certain taoists who encouraged people to think for themself and question the spiritual authorities still advised against the use of psychedelics. even if early christians used psychedelics that doesn't tell us jesus's view of the practise because there are sects of buddhism that use them. so if jesus did indeed advise against them would it change your view of him/psychedelics? this is the one issue i continually find myself dissagreeing with spiritual teachers on. just the fact that so many of us here on this website have come to know the transcendent through their use seem evidence of their effectiveness. they may be risky but the risk comes with the potential for great rewards.


Edited by Deviate (11/11/05 01:34 PM)


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Invisiblespud
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4921910 - 11/11/05 01:38 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
What does physical blindness have to do with non-interaction with G-D?




I meant blind to God, not physically blind. Hence the lack of faith reference that follows.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Silversoul]
    #4924098 - 11/11/05 11:34 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4924121 - 11/11/05 11:40 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Sorry, I took the obvious, non-metaphorical meaning  :blush:.

Gnostic psychology postulates three types of people. Those who are spiritually blind are the 'Hylics' sometimes referred to as 'Sarx' [flesh]. The materialists of today are Hylics, the 'Psychics' include those whose grasp of non-material reality are either confined to psychic phenomena, or those types of Christians who have not had spiritual experiences but live 'by faith.' Psychic Christians 'may' be graced with an Experience of Gnosis thereby transforming them into 'Pneumatics' - spiritual types.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4924149 - 11/11/05 11:48 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Just for clarification, do gnostics believe that each different "type" travels to a different place after death?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Deviate]
    #4924187 - 11/11/05 11:58 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Iesus, or Y'shua was a 1st century Judean Jew who more than likely adhered 'religiously' to Jewish dietary laws. Mushrooms that grew out of dung were not going to be eaten under Kosher law for any reason. Psychedelics were not needed two millennia ago for the same reason that they are useful today. Then, a non-technological world existed. Simplicity ruled human life. The 'barnacle-stripping' effect of psychedelics was not needed then. Most moderns are so burdened with 'stuff' and so overly stimulated that desires are out of control. Low level humans - low life - criminals are criminals because like small children with adult desires and no impulse control, they have a vampyric obsession with materiality and its fulfillment. The multitudes are actually closer to being criminal insofar as ravenous desires fill their minds, but non-criminal if their morals and ethics check the obsession. Of course, there are plenty of professionals who routinely rip off the individual and the systems.

So, Y'shua would not eat mushrooms, and if one explained a tab of acid, it would probably be received by 1st century thinking as pharmakeia - sorcery. However, it is not a historical Jesus who is in question, it is G-D. Jesus would not comprehend chemistry, medicine or motive of a 21st century human. If the notion of sorcery can be lifted to high magic, 'theurgy' rather than 'thaumaturgy,' then perhaps in the light of the magic that the Old Testament bore testimony of, Jesus would understand righteous use. In trying to understand the place of Jesus in Judaism, the Talmud speaks of Jesus as being a magician, BTW.



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Invisiblespud
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4924254 - 11/12/05 12:17 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Would you say then that the transformation into a Pneumatic is a Godly gift, one given to reward a loyal Psychic? A transformation that occurs when the time is just right.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4924329 - 11/12/05 12:33 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

No. I do not conceive of the relationship of G-D to human in terms of a relationship between two beings. G-D is not 'a being' - G-D is very Being, the Ground of Being - the Essence from which all existence is derived and sustained. We are not like loyal dogs. Spiritual growth and maturity is a relative thing. Not all men are physically like Mr. Universe. All mature trees are not Sequoias. We all carry limitations that are part of what Existentialists call 'the givens.' Perhaps it is spiritual inheritance, karma, consequences of more transmigrations. Sanctification includes 'assurance' - that sense of certitude about eternal verities that theology speaks of instead of 'gnosis.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblespud
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4924369 - 11/12/05 12:42 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Very interesting, I've never seen it from that perspective.

The recent readings of yourself and the conversations I've had with Zahid as of late have been quite intriguing.

I thank you both.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4924451 - 11/12/05 01:05 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I believe, in adherence with scripture, that 'In my father's house are many mansions,' refers to differing post-mortem conditions. Now, whether spiritual growth and development continues, or whether there is any variation or change in Eternity is an interesting question. It would be nice (ego-syntonic) to rest assured that Eternity is not going to be dissapointing for anyone! I find it unlikely that 'I' am going to have a better trip then the average 'real' Church-going Christian (Psychic Christian) because I have had some High and Holy Experiences that someone else has not had. "You have seen and have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed." Like [Doubting] Thomas, I'm a Thomist Christian - I had a need to be convinced and G-D granted me that - more than once


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