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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4914865 -

Know a priest, Know a priest.


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Droz]
    #4914869 -

Out of curiosity; are you 12?

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4914907 -

spud said:
I believe that since people are assumed incapable of free will there can then be no rational basis for morality. Because of this many aspects of criminal and civil law appear irrational and unjust.


if there is no rational bases for morality how can something be unjust?

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Deviate]
    #4914913 -

By unjust I was more so referring to unsound. Not justified in doing so through the tools of truth.

Logically contradictory and rationally confusing.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4914927 -

so what is your alternative to our current justice system?

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Deviate]
    #4914948 -

Well, I have none to offer. What's the point of using a logically balanced system if it leads to the conception of justified wrong doing? Everyone would do anything and use determinism as a cop out.

Because of this, the pursuit of rational order becomes null, instead the focus becomes on pursuing systems that maximize happiness, both in the material and ethereal sense, within a world focused on promoting self deception. Deceived into believing we have free will.

For this, the Western paradigm of law does it's job fine.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. *DELETED* [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4915745 -

Post deleted by Moonshoe

Reason for deletion: ,


Edited by Moonshoe (11/09/05 10:46 PM)

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. *DELETED* [Re: Swami]
    #4915867 -

Post deleted by Moonshoe

Reason for deletion: ?



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Everything I post is fiction.

Edited by Moonshoe (11/09/05 10:47 PM)

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4915880 -

IMO, Swami is full of BS. No one would commit 7 long years of their life to events that brought NO desired effects. Especially events of that nature, events which are extremely consuming on time, the body, and the mind.

Either he experienced something or he never did as claimed.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4915883 -

Well, thanks for the compliment, but why the 'H,' 'E,' double hockey sticks did you resurrect THIS post  :confused: ?
Just curious, and I happened to see this before going to bed. You're right about not getting a big head - I don't indulge my ego, and I do manage to crank out some decent posts (at least my Lady thinks I should make a book out of them). I'm really not a genius (but thanks  :smile:  :heart:) and I do try to be honest and as clear as I can be. Together, it sometimes comes out as Truth (accurate reporting with minimal distortion).

And BTW - I'm fortunate to have found this Shroomery thing back in '99 because I don't know anyone in the non-virtual world (other than the Lady who recued me from my solitude) who gives a s**t about anything I have to say.

Peace and Friendship,
Mark[ostheGnostic]


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4915888 -

He didn't resurrect it, I did.

I also posed questions, justifying the resurrection.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4915944 -

didnt realise how old this thread was... thanks for resurecting it, its fascinating

markos, as always this is amazing reading, were lucky to have you

i also find it raises really interesting questions about spirituality... it certainly seems that there are spiritual "types" of people... for whatever reason, some people take to spirituality like ducks to water, while for others its a monumental struggle or even, perhaps, an impossibiltiy.

some of those who find themselves, for  reasons of genetics, cultural programing, personality, early child hood experience or whatever, are just unable to experience the metaphysical... seem to cope by telling themselves that all those people who do have genuine and ecstatic spiritual experiences are either lieing or deluded...

its one thing if someone is just not spiritually inclined and would rather drink and watch nascar... they can still be happy... but what if someone desperatly wants to experience god, works for years at all the accepted methods of doing so, and gets no results?

its really tragic... and i hope i dont sound pretentious for saying that... but i can relate to what markos is saying about what a pathetic life a godless one is... simply because without a spiritual element to life, all your left with is the material/physical and the intellectual...

now... i was born into wealth, and i have every material comfort that anyone could reasonably ask for... and without my spiritual path, god, and the moments of divine i experience, those things bring me NO real happiness... just slow creeping depression and sedation... no exception... when god/the path leaves my life, so does all real happiness...

its just so hard for me to believe you could meditate. do yoga and be vegetarian for SEVEN years and not experience anything "spiritual"...

im not calling you a liar, but ive never done yoga or meditated without some significant feeling of deep peace and calm... if not something more... and ive never done chakra/energy meditations wihtout actually feeling strong energetic sensations...and ive never meditated and done yoga and aten vegetarian for even a week without feeling like i was walking in god...

maybe its genetic... left brain right brain orientation?

:shrug:

peace to all...


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4916018 -

Quote:
i also find it raises really interesting questions about spirituality... it certainly seems that there are spiritual "types" of people... for whatever reason, some people take to spirituality like ducks to water, while for others its a monumental struggle or even, perhaps, an impossibiltiy.


I recommend you check out the book The God Gene : How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes

It may have the answers to many of your questions.



Time magazine covered the story about a year ago.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4916020 -

sounds interesting.,..

but if our dna compells us to seek a higher power, why dont we all then subsequently percieve it?

why do some poeple feel god without even looking , when swami can meditate for 7 years and get nada?


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4916027 -

It argues that only some people have the gene fully developed. It's an actual gene, he narrows it down and shows case studies that prove correlation. I forget exactly the details, I haven't read it in years.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4916043 -

This was before my time. Thanks for pulling it up Spud.  :thumbup: :heart:

This was a nice read Markos, the essence of it.

If you think of the word God as being the all that is, knowing it can bring great peace because, there is only one. One can't truly be in conflict without another.

Even what denies and rejects the one self and runs in opposition against or away from it is still the One, just afraid of itself. Silly when you look at it like that. Then again, maybe not because the one is POWERFUL. Like that saying, we are not afraid of what makes us less then, we are afraid of what makes us Great.

When you can surrender to it and just admit defeat and accept yourself and all that is as the One, peace is restored.

It's weird sometimes when you watch the world at war and in chaos and consider that as much as it looks like its going in infinite directions with infinite agendas, they all come down to one-self knowing through acceptance or denial.

Any time we are in fear or flat out scared to death, the power we are facing is that of our own we denied in ourselves, rejected and gave away to others and life to use over us.

The sooner we start accepting ourself, the sooner we come out of fear of the self and out of conflict with it and back into alignment and peace with it.

Know God-Know Peace. :thumbup: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4916262 -

it was a wonderful post markos, you are truly gifted when it comes to articulating these concepts. i still want talk with you or "lead a dialogue" as you put it but i've been very busy with school lately. i will try to get at least one of those books you recommended to me. i know exactly what you mean about people who have taken large doses of psychedelics and yet failed to "discorporate". i was able to "discorporate" using only marijuana. and there truly is a difference between taking a drug and experiencing its affects on your mind and merging into the pure consciousness of oneness.

as for swami, i don't really understand him. as was pointed out i find it difficult to believe he could follow such a strict regimen for 7 years without acheiving results along the way. for example with me, it doesn't take long at all for me to tell if a specific spiritual teaching or technique is going to be of use to me. for instance i remember shortly after i discovered the spiritual path my aunt sent me 3 or 4 books. i read over the first book and there was some concepts which interested but it didn't really "speak" to me or do anything for me. i read the next book and it seemed to make sense but again only at an intellectual level. the next day i was completely unchanged. the third book was the spiritual teaching of ramana maharshi and it had a profound effect on me. i finished the entire book the day i started reading it and immediately began reading it a second time. that night i had a profound spiritual experience of the pure consciousness. anyway the point im trying to make is that if spiritual teachings did not lead to benefits in my life or spritual experiences i would not have kept following them. i can usually tell very quickly if a specific teaching is of use to me and if i find it useful i generally notice minor affects on my basic level of awareness within days/weeks. for example for the past 2 months ive been practising some spiritual techniques i found on the internet which take up a considerable amount of time every day. now i can be a very lazy person and there is no way in hell that i would continue them (let alone do them with enthusiasm) if i wasn't noticing a positive affect. on the contrary i have noticed an incredible clearing of my mind over the past 2 months and i am almost a new person compared to how i felt over the summer. i cannot even imagine carrying out a spirtual regimen for 7 years without experiencing benefits along the way. i'd probably give up after a week or a month at the most. i also find it hard to believe that a truly sincere person could practise for 7 years and not experience benefits from it unless they were totally misunderstanding some fundamental concept or suffering from some strange psychological block. maybe swami never found the teaching that was right for him. why he would continue with the wrong teaching for 7 years is a mystery to me though. my philosophy is if something doesn't work after you've put your faith in it and and given it a sincere effort, you move on and you try something else.

Edited by Deviate (11/10/05 12:48 AM)

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Deviate]
    #4916304 -

Swami is well known for fabricating supporting evidence.

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4916612 -

Quote:
its just so hard for me to believe you could meditate. do yoga and be vegetarian for SEVEN years and not experience anything "spiritual"...


I see it all the time. It depends on which part of the self is engaged in all these activities. If "spiritual" practice always led to living in spirit, we wouldn't be having all these discussions here or seeing all these religious countrys at war without and within, ect. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: No God - No Peace. Know God - Know Peace. [Re: spud]
    #4916622 -

spud said:
Out of curiosity, what is the root of your system of morality? Where do you look for ethics?

The Holy book or rational? Or neither?

Also, what's your view on the man himself, Jesus H. Christ?




My adult sense of morality comes from different sources along the way of life. There was my parent's influence. My father hated liars and sneaks. Then there is my character - always the young experimenter and scientist as a child - seeking understanding, particularly of 'cool' phenomena (like distilling Bromine in a retort from Potassium Bromide and Sulfuric Acid during junior high school). Later, it was taking chemicals into the 'alembic' of my body and trying to understand the Psychedelic Experience which made me even more one-pointed about accurate reporting of psychological events and hence more 'honest' or 'truthful.'

Having determined the Holy nature of my quest for Higher Consciousness through psychedelics, my subsequent change of college major from biology to philosophy (and Indian philosophy in particular, with Greek Neoplatonic thought emerging), I underwent a late adolescent search for religious identity. I was baptized Catholic, spent two years in a Methodist seminary, and identified with being a follower of Jesus the Christ, whom I recognized as my model for human development. My 'Christology' has continued to change, but Jesus still remains the exemplar (mythic or historical) of Compassion which is the very essence of morality. I have not disregarded the Buddha as such an exemplar, but his example resonates more completely with the Eastern mind which in many cases can dispense with the process of prayer (whereas I cannot) without the entire loss of spirituality.

I use scriptures (not only the canonical Bible, but Nag Hammadi books as well) as a frame of reference for my own experience. I do not and cannot follow scriptures blindly because that is only following a course of action based upon an (often misunderstood) intellectual understanding of the words. An Experience alone seems to Illuminate the words of scripture, which then acquires real meaning.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/10/05 02:55 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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