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OfflineRonoS
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The 8 Big Lies about Iraq
    #879857 - 09/12/02 06:54 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

8 lies about Iraq
ONE It's Saddam's fault that half a million children died since the economic blockade, saddam could feed his people if he cared instead of using his money to buy weapons.

TWO If Iraq allowed inspections for wmd (weapons of mass destruction), Washington would remove the blockade. Iraq iraq must prove that it has now wmd and that it won't manufacture any in the future.

THREE Iraq wouldn't let the UN/US monitors inspect possible wmd production or storage sites. that's why America started bombing.

FOUR It's Iraq's fault that the blockade continues. America has nothing against Iraq's people, only against its government.

FIVE The United Nations ordered sanctions and Washington is just enforcing them.

SIX If we don't bomb Iraq, Saddam will use his WMD against us or his neighbors or Israel.

SEVEN Saddam gassed his own people.

EIGHT A WAR WOULD BE QUICK AND EASY TO WIN. IRAQIS WOULD WELCOME AMERICANS TO OVERTHROW THEIR CRUEL DICTATOR. AMERICA WOULD THEN SET UP A FRIENDLY REGIME, EASILY OCCUPY THE COUNTRY AND RID IT OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.



Click on the link for the reality of the above mentioned lies..


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (09/12/02 07:02 AM)


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #879876 - 09/12/02 07:05 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

good read.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #879880 - 09/12/02 07:07 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I've had a tough day so I'm not in the mood to argue.

I'll just say thanks, I needed a good laugh.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #879894 - 09/12/02 07:14 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, don't bother backing up your statements...wait for Pinky to do your fight for you and just agree with whatever he says. At least he makes for an intelligent debate....


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (09/12/02 07:22 AM)


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Offlinefoghorn
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #880064 - 09/12/02 09:04 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i only really like #8


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #880119 - 09/12/02 09:48 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I made a post with this answer earlier but it seems to be gone.
I'm not sure what part you didn't understand..
was it the I'm not in the mood?
Or was it thanks for the laugh.

As for the pinky comment... if he has given a good answer, why should I just repeat his points? It would be foolish of me. I've seen post(s) where that was your basic response. Is it OK for you but not me?

But no matter, your response here merely provided me with another chuckle. Shame though because while I rarely agree with you, at least you weren't just plain foolish. I think some of your beliefs are, but now I have to wonder about you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #880177 - 09/12/02 10:27 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Damn...just when we were becoming so close, I had to go and screw it up.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #880447 - 09/12/02 01:26 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

at least you weren't just plain foolish.

Unfortunately you appear to be.


--------------------
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Offlinehongomon
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #881113 - 09/12/02 11:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"Damn...just when we were becoming so close, I had to go and screw it up."

Rono, you've taken on some pretty dreary issues, but you've kept your humor. Good for you!

I suppose we all have different objectives here. If Luv's is to protect his conscience at all costs, whether by saying "thanks for the laugh" and other things like that, or by reading Pinky the debunker's explaination as to why it's still okay to believe the old story, well, whaddayagonnado?

I see this place as a court of law of sorts. We're all jurists, with the option of contributing as the defense, or as the prosecution, as needed. Maybe some of us feel more like jurists (lurkers) and some feel better in the thick of the debate. But at the end of the day, we're jurists--we're all responsible for our own views. The arguments are put forth, we do our best to decide what we believe to be right. But in the big picture, the jury is still, and will always be, out.



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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4881552 - 11/01/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've had a tough day so I'm not in the mood to argue.

I'll just say thanks, I needed a good laugh. 




:lol:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #4881597 - 11/01/05 10:46 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I can't believe that scumbag of a writer denies that the Kurds were gassed. I guess it just shows how low people will sink to try to further their cause.


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Offlined33p
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4881929 - 11/02/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've had a tough day so I'm not in the mood to argue.

I'll just say thanks, I needed a good laugh. 




:lol:




3 years late buddy :lol:


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: d33p]
    #4881972 - 11/02/05 12:19 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I guess if they repeat it enough they think it is true.


--------------------
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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Rono]
    #4882302 - 11/02/05 02:10 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

SIX If we don't bomb Iraq, Saddam will use his WMD against us or his neighbors or Israel

EIGHT A WAR WOULD BE QUICK AND EASY TO WIN. IRAQIS WOULD WELCOME AMERICANS TO OVERTHROW THEIR CRUEL DICTATOR. AMERICA WOULD THEN SET UP A FRIENDLY REGIME, EASILY OCCUPY THE COUNTRY AND RID IT OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION


jesus, was this guy psychic?


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Alex213]
    #4882378 - 11/02/05 02:53 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You are somewhat correct on 8, although I'm not really sure it actually counts as a lie considering there is no evidence the powers that be knew this in the first place, and it would make no sense to invade the country if you believed this to be true.

You had better go back and rethink the other 7.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Redstorm]
    #4882454 - 11/02/05 04:09 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I can't believe that scumbag of a writer denies that the Kurds were gassed. I guess it just shows how low people will sink to try to further their cause.




How do you know for a FACT it is true rather than just believe it is true? Or perhaps you dont know for a FACT it is true?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: GazzBut]
    #4882823 - 11/02/05 10:31 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I know it's hard to not be an apologist for Saddam, but just try for a second.

Quote:

BOSTON, MA (April 29, 1993) - For the first time ever, scientists have been able to prove the use of chemical weapons through the analysis of environmental residues taken years after such an attack occurred. In a development that could have far-reaching consequences for the enforcement of the chemical weapons treaty, soil samples taken from bomb craters near a Kurdish village in northern Iraq by a team of forensic scientists have been found to contain trace evidence of nerve gas.

The samples were collected on June 10, 1992 by a forensic team assembled by the Boston-based Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) and the New York-based Middle East Watch (MEW), a division of Human Rights Watch (HRW). The samples were forwarded to the Chemical & Biological Defence Establishment (CBDE) of Great Britain's Ministry of Defence at Porton Down which analyzed them.

Eyewitnesses have said that Iraqi warplanes dropped three clusters each of four bombs on the village of Birjinni on August 25, 1988. Observers recall seeing a plume of black, then yellowish smoke, followed by a not-unpleasant odor similar to fertilizer, and also a smell like rotten garlic. Shortly afterwards, villagers began to have trouble breathing, their eyes watered, their skin blistered, and many vomited--some of whom died. All of these symptoms are consistent with a poison gas attack.

"These scientific results prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Iraqi government has consistently lied to the world on denying that these attacks occurred," said PHR and HRW. "They also send a clear signal that chemical weapons attacks cannot be launched in the belief that the natural elements will quickly cover up the evidence."

According to scientists at Porton Down, the discovery marks "the first time that we have found evidence in soil samples of traces of the degradation products of nerve agent." In addition to degradation products of nerve agents, the samples also yielded significant amounts of the degradation products of mustard gas.

Alastair Hay, a consultant to PHR and Senior Lecturer in Chemical Pathology at the University of Leeds, said, "This discovery not only confirms eyewitness accounts and medical examinations of Kurdish people that nerve gas as well as mustard gas were used against them, but it also has enormous implications for the effectiveness of the chemical weapons treaty." While inspection teams from the United Nations Special Commission have found both mustard and nerve agents stored in Iraq, as well as munitions containing them, the samples from Birjinni show they were actually used, Hay said.

In addition to confirming reports of a gas attack on Birjinni, the findings "indicate that samples collected from appropriate locations can provide evidence of the presence of chemical warfare agents over four years after the attack," according to Dr. Graham Pearson, Director General and Chief Executive of the Chemical and Biological Defence Establishment. "This should contribute to the deterrent effect against nations contemplating the use of chemical weapons." So far, the Chemical Weapons Convention has been signed by 145 countries and is now awaiting ratification before entering into force.

In August 1988, shortly after the ceasefire that ended the Iran-Iraq war, the government of Saddam Hussein launched a major military offensive against the Kurds in northern Iraq, sending tens of thousand of refugees who either witnessed or showed physical symptoms of chemical weapons attacks. The PHR team concluded that bombs containing mustard gas and at least one unidentified nerve agent had been dropped on Kurdish villages in northern Iraq.

According to MEW, the Birjinni attack was one of dozens of chemical weapons attacks launched against the Kurds in 1988. "These chemical weapons attacks were part of a genocidal campaign carried out against Kurdish civilians," said Kenneth Anderson, director of the Arms Project of Human Rights Watch and a member of the PHR/MEW forensic team that visited Iraqi Kurdistan in June 1992.

At least four people were killed during the attack on Birjinni, two in an orchard and two brothers in a cave where they sought refuge. The remaining villagers fled. Refugees reported that Iraqi soldiers visited the village days later and buried the two victims found in the orchard an, elderly man and a young boy.

On June 10, 1992, a forensic team from PHR/MEW visited Birjinni, a small village of about 30 houses, a mosque, and a school. The team consisted of Dr. Clyde Snow, a well-known consultant in forensic anthropology to medical examiners' offices in the United States and professor of anthropology at the University of Oklahoma; James Briscoe, an archaeologist with Roberts/Schornik & Associates, Inc., Norman, Oklahoma; Mercedes Doretti and Luis Fondebrider, both members of the Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team; Kenneth Anderson, a consultant to PHR and MEW; Isabel M. Reveco of the Chilean Forensic Anthropology Team; and Stefan Schmitt of the Guatemalan Forensic Anthropology Team.

The forensic team exhumed the bodies of the man and boy reportedly killed during the attack and buried by the Iraqi soldiers. Anthropological evidence showed the man to be about 60 years of age and the boy to be about five years of age. neither skeleton showed signs of physical trauma. The forensic team took samples of clothing and soil and insect larva from the graves. They also took soil samples and pieces of metal from inside four bomb craters located about 700 meters apart. Three samples were taken from each crater: one each from the center and the southern and northern edges. The samples were secured in plastic bags, described, and labelled. The team also observed bomb fragments in and around the craters.

At Porton Down, analysis by gas chromatography and mass spectrometry found that six soil samples taken from the first two craters contained mustard agent and/or thiodiglycol, a compound produced by the hydrolysis (breakdown by water) of mustard, 1,4- thioxane and 1,4-dithiane, were also detected in these samples. The chemists at Porton Down also found the presence of the compound tetryl, an explosive that, according to Dr. Hay, is widely used in chemical munitions.

The second six samples, including pieces of metal, contained "unequivocal" residues of methylphosphonic acid (MPA) and isipropyl methylphosphonic acid (iPMPA), according to analytical chemists at Porton Down. MPA is a product of the hydrolysis of any of several chemical weapons nerve agents. iPMPA is a product of the hydrolysis of the nerve agent GB.

No traces of mustard or nerve agents or their breakdown products were found in the samples taken from the gravesites, although only about three grams of clothing were examined. Further analyses of these are planned.

According to the analysis team at Porton Down, "this is the first example, to our knowledge, that a suspected use of nerve agent has been corroborated by the analysis of environmental residues. The analyses also demonstrated that traces of chemical weapons agents or their degradation products can still be detected in the environment over four years later provided that the samples are taken from a point of high initial contamination."




http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Redstorm]
    #4883165 - 11/02/05 12:28 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I know it's hard to not be an apologist for Saddam, but just try for a second.


There is apparantly some question about this Red.

Let's fast-forward to Jan. 31 of this year, when The New York Times published an opinion piece by Stephen C. Pelletiere, the CIA's senior political analyst on Iraq during the 1980s.

In the article, Pelletiere said the only thing known for certain was that "Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. We cannot say with any certainty that Iraqi chemical weapons killed the Kurds."

Pelletiere said the gassing occurred during a battle between Iraqis and Iranians.

"Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town ... The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target," he wrote.

The former CIA official revealed that immediately after the battle the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report that said it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds.

Both sides used gas at Halabja, Pelletiere suggested.

"The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent ? that is, a cyanide-based gas ? which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1779.htm


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Alex213]
    #4883195 - 11/02/05 12:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

That is one battle. Are you trying to tell me that is the only time Kurds were hit with chemical weapons?

http://www.kdp.pp.se/anfal.html

That page from the Human Rights Watch is very good. I recommend you check it out.


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: The 8 Big Lies about Iraq [Re: Redstorm]
    #4884946 - 11/02/05 08:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Big lie: Canada wasn't involved in the Iraq war.


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