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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
All this talk about what happens after our lives end..
    #8797304 - 08/19/08 07:00 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

But what happened before they began?  What is the relation between the before-life and the after-life?

-----

If there was nothing before, then what's supposed to make me believe that there's something after?  Perhaps the gift of consciousness prohibits the ability to fathom non-existence of consciousness.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: elbisivni]
    #8797319 - 08/19/08 07:02 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

This leads me to think that reincarnation is very possible.  If I was nothing before, and now am living, and will presumably be nothing after death...what's stopping me from coming into another life as I have this one?

As far as I know, I've got a 100% success rate of becoming life out of nothingness.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8797346 - 08/19/08 07:08 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Nice logic. :laugh:

There was a creepy feeling of familiarity, of having "been here before" when I first broke through on DMT, which leads me to believe that's what my life was like before I was, you know, alive.

Or, just as likely, DMT makes you totally crazy! :eek:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8797357 - 08/19/08 07:11 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe that's caused by the same brain mechanism that triggers déjà vu. Whether it's a realistic sensation or not, who knows?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8797399 - 08/19/08 07:19 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

High doses of LSD always give me that eerie sensation that I've been somewhere before, and that everything that is happening has occurred exactly the same at some prior point in time.

LSD and mushrooms sometimes have given me the sensation of remembering glimpses before my birth, though they could be just hallucinations. I remember one time on a high dose of mushrooms having the feeling of a consciousness around my crown chakra split from the consciousness around my physical body, at which point I had the feeling of being contacted by spirits who told me, "When you came into this life..." Well, I forget exactly what they said, but it was quite a glimpse into a realm of consciousness much more aware than all the minds of this universe, though some mystics would say we still connect through the crown chakra.

Other than subjective experiences through meditation or hallucinogenic drugs, you're not going to really experience what happened before your birth, and even if you do you don't know if it's real.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Ravus]
    #8797416 - 08/19/08 07:24 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Well, I would assume the familiarity present in earthshattering psychedelic trips is there simply because you're looking at (or blasting through) your own thought processes. The bizarreness comes from the fact that these processes are typically invisible, even if they are always present.

I just felt like sharing my first reaction. :smile:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineLion
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8797670 - 08/19/08 08:20 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
This leads me to think that reincarnation is very possible.  If I was nothing before, and now am living, and will presumably be nothing after death...what's stopping me from coming into another life as I have this one?


Who is this I who became I??  Who has been before and will be again??


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Lion]
    #8798648 - 08/19/08 11:54 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I imagine the after and before life would be similar.

The picture that comes to mind for me in the afterlife is the fading into relative omniscient awareness. I picture death as being the simultaneous experience of your full life before your eyes in its self-encompassment. I imagine the universe would take on different dimension, but that it would be recognizable. It seems like your beliefs of the afterlife would somehow be connected to your afterlife experience, but I do not picture a simple dogmatic relationship.

I imagine practice with expanded awareness techniques could lead to a better experience as you transitioned into death. It seems like any state you entered after that would likely be relative to your entirety.

I've never died before.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Lion]
    #8798747 - 08/20/08 12:15 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
This leads me to think that reincarnation is very possible.  If I was nothing before, and now am living, and will presumably be nothing after death...what's stopping me from coming into another life as I have this one?


Who is this I who became I??  Who has been before and will be again??




These replies don't help me.  I understand that my true essense is simply the entirety of the universe, but when "I" say "I", "I'm" referring to my current body/self.

If I am not an individual, why then don't I experience everyone's point of view instead of simply my own?


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OfflineKupo
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8798905 - 08/20/08 12:49 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Isn't your point of view just a large collection, a database of sorts, of views taught to you by those before you?

And before them..and before them..and before them..

So you're in the 1st person right now.. maybe someday you'll hop into 3rd ?

I dunno man, I dunno.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8798924 - 08/20/08 12:54 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
If I am not an individual, why then don't I experience everyone's point of view instead of simply my own?




We have learned to shield our "eyes".

You can always see all points of view, but you have learned to discount them. It's called "disbelief".

It's not actually a way to prevent belief, it just categorizes it as one we choose not to see or expand upon- but it helps keep information overflows away.



Keep in mind that every word you bring into your mind causes a spectral fire of linguistic association. You evoked notions of your ego with three words in that one sentence alone. The sort of way we are told to speak has a significant influence on how we are allowed to picture reality. It would be hard to picture reality without the constant repetition of ego-assertion.


(And when you type things out in ways that defy ordinary thought, people don't even respond to your posts! :mushroom2:)


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Registered: 05/07/08
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8798936 - 08/20/08 12:57 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
If I am not an individual, why then don't I experience everyone's point of view instead of simply my own?




We have learned to shield our "eyes".

You can always see all points of view, but you have learned to discount them. It's called "disbelief".

It's not actually a way to prevent belief, it just categorizes it as one we choose not to see or expand upon- but it helps keep information overflows away.



Keep in mind that every word you bring into your mind causes a spectral fire of linguistic association. You evoked notions of your ego with three words in that one sentence alone. The sort of way we are told to speak has a significant influence on how we are allowed to picture reality. It would be hard to picture reality without the constant repetition of ego-assertion.


(And when you type things out in ways that defy ordinary thought, people don't even respond to your posts! :mushroom2:)




This is all true.  When I said point-of-view, though, I ment it quite literally.  I see out of "my" eyes, hear through "my" ears, etc.  Are you saying it is possible for me see through another body's eyes if I only believe?


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Kupo]
    #8798941 - 08/20/08 12:59 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mrspirit2 said:
Isn't your point of view just a large collection, a database of sorts, of views taught to you by those before you?

And before them..and before them..and before them..

So you're in the 1st person right now.. maybe someday you'll hop into 3rd ?

I dunno man, I dunno.




I imagine we probably started in third person.

It would be better for a civilized man to encourage first person though.

A spirit more tightly bound to flesh will feel the pain of punishment more sharply.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8798947 - 08/20/08 01:00 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
I've never died before.



No, but you were pre-born..

*queue spooky noises*


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8798989 - 08/20/08 01:11 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
This is all true.  When I said point-of-view, though, I ment it quite literally.  I see out of "my" eyes, hear through "my" ears, etc.  Are you saying it is possible for me see through another body's eyes if I only believe?




We are a being of thought fused with a being of physicality through a channel called believe which is both thought and physical.

If you were to bend your belief into a shape where the reality represented was not the one outside your eyes, then you would believe it so. This sort of experience is not common in sober waking reality, but would be reasonable to have during dream or drug.

It is possible to be immersed in so much belief that your universe would be entirely unrecognizable in terms of "sounds" and "ears" and "you". I don't recommend it, but this state may be attainable with perhaps 150 tabs.

Sure, the other bubbles of "consciousness" in "humans" might still go on in consensus without you, but relativity will be on your side too.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8799000 - 08/20/08 01:13 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
This is all true.  When I said point-of-view, though, I ment it quite literally.  I see out of "my" eyes, hear through "my" ears, etc.  Are you saying it is possible for me see through another body's eyes if I only believe?




We are a being of thought fused with a being of physicality through a channel called believe which is both thought and physical.

If you were to bend your belief into a shape where the reality represented was not the one outside your eyes, then you would believe it so. This sort of experience is not common in sober waking reality, but would be reasonable to have during dream or drug.

It is possible to be immersed in so much belief that your universe would be entirely unrecognizable in terms of "sounds" and "ears" and "you". I don't recommend it, but this state may be attainable with perhaps 150 tabs.

Sure, the other bubbles of "consciousness" in "humans" might still go on in consensus without you, but relativity will be on your side too.




What makes "my" bubble of consciousness MINE, though? :rofl:

I do get what you are saying.  I guess I just find it hard to understand why subjectivity even exists. :shrug:


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Offlinewhatiamidoing
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8799420 - 08/20/08 04:18 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

read Bardo Thodel (Tibetan Book of The Dead)


one of my peak mystical experiences I had on acid was EXACTLY like what this text describes of the post-life journey, it also felt very familiar, as if I had been there many times before.

i'm convinced there is no death, death = rebirth, beginning is the end, alpha omega. I suppose the moment in between dying and rebirth, that perfect moment of bliss, joy, understanding, the cosmic dance, is what you would call God.

but then again, i'm just talking shit, who really knows what its really like?


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: elbisivni]
    #8799970 - 08/20/08 10:05 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
But what happened before they began?  What is the relation between the before-life and the after-life?

-----

If there was nothing before, then what's supposed to make me believe that there's something after? 




That is a good question.  I think the after-life is given more attention because we still stand to gain something if there is such a thing.  It's not just a curiosity, it's a hope.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineLion
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8800012 - 08/20/08 10:24 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

These replies don't help me.  I understand that my true essense is simply the entirety of the universe,


How do you know this?  Are you sure of this? 
Quote:

but when "I" say "I", "I'm" referring to my current body/self.


Is there a difference between your body and your self?  Are you your body?

Quote:

If I am not an individual, why then don't I experience everyone's point of view instead of simply my own?


I didn't say you weren't.  Just trying to probe a little deeper, that's all.  It doesn't hurt to ask questions like these.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: All this talk about what happens after our lives end.. [Re: elbisivni]
    #8800035 - 08/20/08 10:32 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
But what happened before they began?  What is the relation between the before-life and the after-life?

-----

If there was nothing before, then what's supposed to make me believe that there's something after?  Perhaps the gift of consciousness prohibits the ability to fathom non-existence of consciousness.




How do you do any more then purely speculate on something that you have no evidence of? But if you're after speculation. I think everything goes blank.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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