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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention
    #8796780 - 08/19/08 05:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Some 57% of Americans surveyed believe that God may/can intervene in an otherwise terminal illness.

Assuming that prayer and God have been fairly constant over the millenia and that deaths due to certain diseases have plummeted in the last century due to SCIENCE and UNDERSTANDING of pathogens, I must draw one or more of these (orgone) conclusions:

1. God works better with better medical treatment.

2. God didn't listen as well two hundred years ago.

3. A majority of people are still stuck in archaic superstition.


--------------------


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8796810 - 08/19/08 05:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
2. God didn't listen as well two hundred years ago.




Clearly he had to wait until electric hearing aids were invented! I mean come on, the dude's old as shit!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8796832 - 08/19/08 05:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:fishing:

I was recently told that I was to be terminated....
Due to the power of prayer, I am still alive....!    :smile:
However, I did lose my job....  :sad:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: dblaney]
    #8796833 - 08/19/08 05:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The Bible is v-e-r-y explicit on faith and healing, yet most Christians will run to a doctor at the first sign of something wrong with their body.

People mock Christian Scientists, but at least they (generally) practice what they preach and stick to prayer only. They may be foolish, but are not hypocritical like most branches.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (08/19/08 06:05 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8796842 - 08/19/08 05:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Now you have more time for fishing! :sun:


--------------------


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8796846 - 08/19/08 05:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that. What passage in the bible are you referencing?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8796856 - 08/19/08 05:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

More important than the number (57%) is the trend.  Is this percentage increasing or decreasing, and by how fast?  The way I see it, it is decreasing very quickly as the generations go on.  Thats good, so Im content.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: dblaney]
    #8796881 - 08/19/08 05:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't read it, but I have heard about the practice of "laying on of hands"....
I have heard first hand of people that it has worked for (as they swear and believe), and I have heard of people that it didn't work for....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8796897 - 08/19/08 05:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There are many fine 'Escort' services here in Vegas. Works every time! :banana:


--------------------


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8796972 - 08/19/08 06:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The Bible is v-e-r-y explicit on faith and healing, yet most Christians will run to a doctor at the first sign of something wrong with their body.

People mock Christian Scientists, but at least they (generally) practice what they preach and stick to paryer only. They may be foolish, but are not hypocritical like most branches.




If most Christians practiced what the bible explicitly says to, we'd still have slavery, massive incestual cases, and extensively suppressed women, (like Islam is 2/10 today is 8/10, the bible would have us at 3.4/10)

The interesting thing about this article was the graph of faith in prayer of the average vs. the doctors of the Christian faith.

Also, see studies of correlation from faith to intelligence. It's interesting stuff, although many of the studies could use improvement.

And more people die from faith-based medical neglect each year than from heroin overdoses. In all fairness, there ARE many more Christians than Heroin users, but the situation is not quite the same.



~Monk


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: numonkei]
    #8796988 - 08/19/08 06:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Are you saying a 'modern' Christian should pick & choose which Biblical passages to follow or abandon their religion altogether?


--------------------


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8797043 - 08/19/08 06:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No, I'm just acknowledging that picking and choosing from the bible is the only way to continue to live in standard with the current societies and status quo, at least in the western world.

Literal Bible interpreters are VERY strict, and a VERY small minority of those who would define themselves as Christian or Jewish. After reading the Bible, I've come to think this is a great thing.

There is a lot of good ideas in the Bible. There are an equal amount of appalling ideas and anecdotes, in BOTH testaments and dialogues.

I could have phrased that better. Apologies, working with sleep deprivation at the moment.

Religion becomes better when it evolves. When it evolves to something without bias, it becomes even better. Unfortunately, this is not entirely workable with Islamic/Judaic/Christian belief without abandoning precepts claiming the ultimate authority of the text. Which was from another time with other standards, but we have evolved from our prejudice. To a degree anyway, and that is not consistent with full text devotation.

That's all.



~Monk


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8797147 - 08/19/08 06:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention




Is there a distinct difference between "believing in", and "believing that it is possible"....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8797243 - 08/19/08 06:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Those who would understand the distinction would likely not be praying for their kid with cancer as opposed to going to the doctor.

So yes, but unlikely that this differentiation would damage the stats by more than a percent or two. Faith is usually cold to semantics, but believing it's possible is likely a more skeptical, (or slightly more descriptive way), of 'believing in', but without definition. Agnosticism to Atheism? Is that what you mean?

I'd guess these people being polled were more along the lines of "God will save my cancer-ridden child" than "Well, I can't disprove it".

"Well, I can't disprove it" pollers rarely make the MSM or local paper. It's too open ended, and most who would answer that are likely very religious.

At least for the American attention span and media. :shrug:



~Monk


Edited by numonkei (08/19/08 06:59 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8797259 - 08/19/08 06:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Some 57% of Americans surveyed believe that God may/can intervene in an otherwise terminal illness.

Assuming that prayer and God have been fairly constant over the millenia and that deaths due to certain diseases have plummeted in the last century due to SCIENCE and UNDERSTANDING of pathogens, I must draw one or more of these (orgone) conclusions:

1. God works better with better medical treatment.

2. God didn't listen as well two hundred years ago.

3. A majority of people are still stuck in archaic superstition.




I choose more.:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: Icelander]
    #8797322 - 08/19/08 07:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Some 57% of Americans surveyed believe that God may/can intervene in an otherwise terminal illness.

Assuming that prayer and God have been fairly constant over the millenia and that deaths due to certain diseases have plummeted in the last century due to SCIENCE and UNDERSTANDING of pathogens, I must draw one or more of these (orgone) conclusions:

1. God works better with better medical treatment.

2. God didn't listen as well two hundred years ago.

3. A majority of people are still stuck in archaic superstition.




I choose more.:grin:




:smile:

Yeah, you had no STAL. I'm not sure what that means, but I've inferred from the posts I've read over the past two years that it means 'stall' or 'pass'.

Though, I'd go '3'. Mostly because I think that we are as much god as everything else. And we listen to ourselves and others just as little as we did earlier in history, because we have books that we wrote to ourselves a few thousand years ago telling ourselves to fuck ourselves if we don't do what we say.

Sick joke, but keeps stuff fresh.


~Monk


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: numonkei]
    #8797329 - 08/19/08 07:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

STAL means "Sir Tokes-a-lot."  It's a Pub thing.  :shrug:


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8797350 - 08/19/08 07:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Some 57% of Americans surveyed believe that God may/can intervene in an otherwise terminal illness.



Lower than I had expected!

Someone I know told me today that she literally, ritually prays to God that her cat's diabetes will be healed.  It's nice to know that the more serious issues in this world don't perturb her little bubble and that she wants her cat's life to be enjoyable.. you know, considering that it has no soul and that pretty much flushes it's afterlife down the drain, and her relationship with the cat in the afterlife along with it.  But hey, as long as whatever whack-ass way you want to interpret this shit doesn't involve me, your a mindless fuck and I could care less.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: numonkei]
    #8797371 - 08/19/08 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I would think that people pray the most intensely under situations of desperation, and that is with or without medical intervention....
Then one has to wonder more about prayer....
If I just pray in times of desperation, would it be less likely to work as opposed to if I prayed all of the time....?
Does it matter if I make my prayer short, or should I pray for a full day in the time of need....?

The only time I mentally pray in my head is usually for someone that is suffering, and for me to make the right choices in life....
Does it work....?    I have no idea what the outcome would have been had I not....
Does it make me feel better to have done it, in a way, yes....
Beings that I don't always make the right choices in life, I have to wonder if my prayers for others even makes a difference....
But either way, I have no problem admitting that I send out my focused intentions into the universe - whether they be heard by a God, or not....
I believe there is a creative force, and there was a "divine" spark for life,
I am just not sure that force (God) is waiting to contemplate taking action on my selfish wants and desires....

If we made simple prayers that always came true,
do you think it would increase the belief in a God,
or would it increase a belief that we were Gods ourselves....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Most Americans believe in Divine Intervention [Re: Icelander]
    #8797405 - 08/19/08 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Some 57% of Americans surveyed believe that God may/can intervene in an otherwise terminal illness.

Assuming that prayer and God have been fairly constant over the millenia and that deaths due to certain diseases have plummeted in the last century due to SCIENCE and UNDERSTANDING of pathogens, I must draw one or more of these (orgone) conclusions:

1. God works better with better medical treatment.

2. God didn't listen as well two hundred years ago.

3. A majority of people are still stuck in archaic superstition.




I choose more.:grin:




Michael Moore?


--------------------


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