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OfflineAlcebiades
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 39
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Dung/Straw Bulk Questions
    #8794693 - 08/19/08 11:18 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Ive completed my first bulk grow using coir suplemented with worm castings.  For my next project, Ive stepped up to 50/50 hpoo/straw, to which Ive added +/-5% gypsum and 10% worm castings.  I used a bulk pasteurizer to heat the substrate to 160degF for 90min.  After substrate cooled overnight, I spawned about 8qts. of rye+birdseed to enough substrate to fill a 36 gallon monotub to a depth of 3.75 inches.  6qts were mixed by hand into the substrate, with the other 2qts spread on top to (hopefully) form a contamination barrier.  The spawn/substrate was then gently compacted.  I've allowed the tub liner to cover the bottom FAE holes to increase CO2 levels for colonization.  Is this a good idea/bad idea, necessary or unnecessary?

As this is my first time working with either dung or monotubs, I was wondering what more experienced growers thought about my technique.  Also, Im concerned about the importance of sterile technique when using dung as a bulk substrate.  I wore a hairnet, surgical mask, tyvek sleeves and latex gloves, but didnt use my laminar hood to scrub the air...  Does anyone see contamination trouble coming my way?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Edited by Alcebiades (08/19/08 12:17 PM)


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OfflineAlcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/25/08
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Alcebiades]
    #8795282 - 08/19/08 01:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

More than anything else, I'm interested to know if pasteurized dung+straw is more or less prone to contamination than pasteurized coir...  Any feedback is welcome and greatly appreciated!


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Alcebiades]
    #8795844 - 08/19/08 02:56 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

My guess would be that coir is somewhat less contam prone than dung/straw. Reason being, people used to use coir as a casing layer.

Opinion: using dung/straw as a casing layer isn't a good idea. When I started doing h-poo/straw grows I started using a peat/vermiculite casing mixture. Very low contam rates.

The casing formula: 50/50 (reed sedge peat/vermiculite), 7% high calcium limestone (Mg should be less than 3%) added to the mixture. Some use hydrated lime to PH balance the casing, but I've never felt like I needed anything more than the limestone.


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rahz

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“Walking around 6 million years ago. Looking kind of human 1 million years ago. Writing things down 6 thousand years ago.”


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Rahz]
    #8795879 - 08/19/08 03:02 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

you shouldn't have compacted your substrate at all.  the lighter more fluffier it is the faster it will colonize and less of a chance you have for contams.

fill your holes with polyfill right away after you spawn.  dont cover them up.  and then place in incubation. 

manure/straw works great for a bulk substrate but it will usually contam on the 3rd flush or so just because of the straw it has nothing to do with you.


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OfflineAlcebiades
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: blood4blood]
    #8798565 - 08/19/08 11:35 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Gotcha, I went ahead and showered up put on my gear and ran a sanitized trowel through the substrate to loosen it up.  I figure since I just spawned to it today it would be ok...  Also, I folded the liner down between the substrate and the tub.  I did overstuff the polyfill a little bit first to allow slightly higher CO2 levels.  I'll pull some of it out as the sub gets more colonized to allow more circulation.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!!!


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineAlcebiades
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Alcebiades]
    #8805352 - 08/21/08 01:48 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I've got another couple of questions for everyone...

Assuming that the substrate was properly prepared and is in a good environment, how long would you expect colonization of this volume (25X14X3.75=1312.5 cubic inches?) of substrate to take?  I've seen anywhere between 3 days to a week.  I'm having trouble gauging because of the 2 qts of spawn spread on top of the substrate...  I'd really hate to case too early. :P

Also, I'm a little concerned about the gypsum I'm using... I wasn't able to find the finely powdered gypsum featured in RR's video.  I only found the granular "organic traditions" brand stuff.  I dissolved it in water (didn't clump like the powdered gypsum does!) and then applied that to the substrate before mixing the hell out of the stuff.  Does/has anyone else used this stuff?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisibleseven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Alcebiades]
    #8805445 - 08/21/08 02:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

im confused STILL on a contam barrier of spawn. i posted about it and RR said you do not want exposed grain as it is prone to contam. thus the contam barrier is opposite if its intentions. then i tryed to tell someone this and they said the grain is colonized therefore not "exposed" but when you break up the spawn im sure you can see exposed grain. . seems as if poo would contam just as quick as exposed grain so . im still confused as to what thhe top layer should be


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/26/07
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: seven]
    #8805486 - 08/21/08 02:26 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

people use the top layer of spawn as sort of a "frosting layer"  because it will colonize very fast and thus creating a sort of contam barrier.  but like you said you cant judge when your sub is colonized by when that top layer is colonized.  but you can case at anytime even right after spawning.  But ime with a good spawn ratio it usually takes my bulk anywhere from 8-11 days to become fully colonized.

about your gypsum question-  that is the exact same stuff i use but got sick of dissolving it in water or mixing it up in granule form.  so i measure out what i need for my projects and throw it in a cooffee grinder and viola powdered gypsum.  you can get a good grinder at walmarx for 13 bones.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: blood4blood]
    #8805700 - 08/21/08 03:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The grain may be colonized, but that doesn't mean parts of the seed, exposed during the shake, won't give root to contams. Plus, shaking damages the mycelium. There will be dead cells, and contams could latch onto that quickly. With a non-nutritious layer on top, the only mycelium that's exposed, is hopefully nice healthy mycelium. Even then, bad growing conditions could favor mean green, or something else.

Anyway, grain is a more ideal medium for contams than poo. Ideally, IMO, it should all be covered with a non-nutritious contam barrier that supports the pinning process. Also, pasteurized poo has a contam free time frame to work with. Sterilized grain is open to contams as soon as it's exposed.

Gypsum alternative: At feed stores, farm supply stores, and probably even the big box stores, you can find bags of gypsum pellets for cheap, like 6 bucks for a 40 lb. bag, that will last a long time.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Walking around 6 million years ago. Looking kind of human 1 million years ago. Writing things down 6 thousand years ago.”


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Invisibleseven
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Rahz]
    #8805825 - 08/21/08 03:30 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

rahz, so you case when you spawn to bulk?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: seven]
    #8805960 - 08/21/08 03:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

When I spawn to bulk, I let the bulk colonize under tin foil... usually 4 days, then apply a casing layer, and let that colonize 3-4 days.

I've never had a contam during the initial substrate colonization phase. Colonized seeds aren't that frail, but having them exposed to FAE and high humidity during the grow process, is just a bad idea. People have done it, even if it's just the seeds that happen to be at the top in the spawn/sub mixture, but I wouldn't recommend it. Casing layers are good. They absorb moisture that the substrate would otherwise be unable to take, they foster good pin sets, and they protect the substrate from airborne contamination.

I've read that adding additional grain spawn to the top of the sub mix can help out a pinset. I haven't tried it, so I won't give advice here... I can't remember if they cased immediately or waited for sub colonization... but it would make some sense to go ahead and add the casing layer if the additional grain insured even casing growth. But generally, the sub is colonized first, then the casing is added. This helps insure even growth through the casing.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Walking around 6 million years ago. Looking kind of human 1 million years ago. Writing things down 6 thousand years ago.”


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OfflineAlcebiades
Stranger thanMost

Registered: 05/25/08
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Re: Dung/Straw Bulk Questions [Re: Rahz]
    #8806820 - 08/21/08 07:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you all for your input!

Like I said earlier, I'm doing this whole grow in a monotub setup, and I took agar's advice and put a sheet of clear plastic over the entire opening of the tub and taped it down after spawning to the substrate.  I'm not *too* terribly worried about contams at this point, since the myc. seems to be taking off like gang busters...  I'll give it another week to colonize and then case with 50/50+  I'll post some pics along the way!  Good to know that I didn't totally screw myself using an unknown gypsum product lol!

Thanks again for all the help!


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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