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Offlineanyone420
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i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all
    #8793014 - 08/18/08 09:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

agree, or disagree?


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793016 - 08/18/08 09:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Agree.


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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: LSDreamer]
    #8793021 - 08/18/08 09:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

agreed,

i was really fucked up on a lot of shit
when i learned my grandmother died.

i didn't care at first,
i was just numb too it.

the pain the next days was rather relieving.


--------------------
Es muss sein?!


Edited by maysrome (08/18/08 09:48 PM)


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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793028 - 08/18/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Um...disagree. Why would you rather feel pain if you had the choice not too? I can understand the torture of not feeling anything at all, that actually happened to me for a while, but if the only other option is feeling only pain, I'd say no. Now if what you're talking about is a choice between feeling no pain, or having full feeling INCLUDING pain, I'd take full feeling. I know how bad it feels to feel nothing.


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793033 - 08/18/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

So my choices are:

a.) feel no pleasure, but feel pain.

or

b.) feel no pleasure, but don't feel pain.

Since both of these options allow no hedonistic satisfaction, and only one of the options allows me to avoid negative reinforcement, I'd go with feeling nothing at all.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8793044 - 08/18/08 09:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
So my choices are:

a.) feel no pleasure, but feel pain.

or

b.) feel no pleasure, but don't feel pain.

Since both of these options allow no hedonistic satisfaction, and only one of the options allows me to avoid negative reinforcement, I'd go with feeling nothing at all.




Ok, you said it better than me. Thats pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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OfflineAlicedee25


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793051 - 08/18/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i dont think i've ever felt nothing.. is that possible?


--------------------
Here's Tom with the weather


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793054 - 08/18/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i'd rather feel nothing


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Offlineanyone420
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8793056 - 08/18/08 09:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

id rather feel pain

til the wheels fall off


--------------------
for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright


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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8793062 - 08/18/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alicedee25 said:
i dont think i've ever felt nothing.. is that possible?




I have felt nothing but pain before...I was very close to killing myself for a long time...thankfully I pulled out of it before I did. To answer your question, I don't know if its possible to feel nothing, but I drawing on my own experience, I would suspect so. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone...


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793064 - 08/18/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

no way, I hate pain

I rather feel good than feel nothing at all, I also rather feel good than to feel pain.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: aDoS]
    #8793082 - 08/18/08 09:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
no way, I hate pain

I rather feel good than feel nothing at all, I also rather feel good than to feel pain.




LOL...well, duh. I think pretty much everyone would choose one of those options, thats why there is such a lucrative drug market!


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #8793087 - 08/18/08 09:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

but after feeling nothing for so long,
could you function for too much longer in this life


--------------------
Es muss sein?!


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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #8793092 - 08/18/08 09:58 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, its why God gave us the papaver somniferum plant.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: maysrome]
    #8793104 - 08/18/08 10:01 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

maysrome said:
but after feeling nothing for so long,
could you function for too much longer in this life




Its very hard to function while feeling nothing but pain, I would assume its just as hard if not harder to function while feeling nothing at all. I used to do crazy things just in order to feel fear or anything other than pain.


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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OfflineFrost
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #8793136 - 08/18/08 10:07 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

That is a good question and I think the answer lies in how much pain it is. When the pain is too great nothing is better than something I might think.


But the song those lyrics come from is terrible.


--------------------
“I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens.
I've been knocking from the inside.” - Rumi

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” - Carl Sagan


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #8793204 - 08/18/08 10:20 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ima Trooper said:
Quote:

maysrome said:
but after feeling nothing for so long,
could you function for too much longer in this life




Its very hard to function while feeling nothing but pain, I would assume its just as hard if not harder to function while feeling nothing at all. I used to do crazy things just in order to feel fear or anything other than pain.





so by your logic, assuming one could feel nothing but happiness, it would be incredibly hard for one to function if all they felt was good/joy/bliss


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: demiu5]
    #8793218 - 08/18/08 10:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

^Probably.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Frost]
    #8793219 - 08/18/08 10:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Would feeling nothing mean being nothing?

I don't think you can prove you exist beyond my feeling of your existing.

Or are you insinuating that you could instead of feeling have some sort of machine mind that had intellectual intent without having emotional intent?


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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OfflineAlicedee25


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #8793235 - 08/18/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Would feeling nothing mean being nothing?

I don't think you can prove you exist beyond my feeling of your existing.

Or are you insinuating that you could instead of feeling have some sort of machine mind that had intellectual intent without having emotional intent?




i was wondering this.  Nothing in the literal sense is impossible


--------------------
Here's Tom with the weather


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Offlinedwtk
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8793242 - 08/18/08 10:27 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Totally agree.. without negative there can't really be positive. Make sense?


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OfflineAlicedee25


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: dwtk]
    #8793265 - 08/18/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

^agreed.  you need that reference of feeling


--------------------
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InvisibleRobo
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8793299 - 08/18/08 10:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I thought this thread was going to be about suicide, from the title :justdontknow:

What does this have to do w/ psychedelics.


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OfflineN2loma
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8793328 - 08/18/08 10:45 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I would rather feel nothing than nothing but pain (I suspect this would be better in both a literal and figurative sense of "nothing"). Of course, you can argue that pain experienced in the complete absence of pleasure would be perceived as something else, but enough of that philosophical claptrap :rolleyes:


--------------------
"So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean/
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be" -Divide by Disturbed

Good Guitars Don't Cry


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: aDoS]
    #8794727 - 08/19/08 09:28 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
yeah, its why God gave us the papaver somniferum plant.




--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8794756 - 08/19/08 09:32 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

We live in a dualistic world... if you feel pain, you must feel "not-pain" so I'd rather feel pain then nothing at all because with the pain will come "not-pain" - it's necessary. Just like in order to be happy, you must have sadness. Otherwise it would just be an empty unknown feeling. To feel the happyness of happy, you must feel the sadness of sad. Happy cannot be happy without sad, just like pain cannot be pain without not-pain - it would just be an unknown empty feeling.

If that doesn't make sense... think about it, because it does.


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Offlinesinzok
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all *DELETED* [Re: Robo]
    #8794761 - 08/19/08 09:33 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by sinzok

Reason for deletion: Deleting posts sucks!



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Offlineanyone420
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: sinzok]
    #8794795 - 08/19/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

wheelz fall off is an amazing song :crankey:


--------------------
for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8794810 - 08/19/08 09:44 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Disagree, for as much as I love pain, I even moreso love numbness. To feel nothing would be more ideal than feeling the range of emotions. I strive to be comfortably numb.

I also agree that that is a terrible song.


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8794861 - 08/19/08 09:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Disagree, for as much as I love pain, I even moreso love numbness. To feel nothing would be more ideal than feeling the range of emotions. I strive to be comfortably numb.

I also agree that that is a terrible song.




I don't understand how you would want to be numb for your entire life. To never know what love is? Or to never be excited? What kind of life is that? Not much of one at all IMO. A large part of life is the emotional roller coaster we all go through, the ups and downs, the good times the bad times... not the indifference of everything ever.

How could you be comfortably numb... thats a contradiction. If you are numb and have no feelings then you cannot be comfortable... or uncomfortable for that matter...


Edited by Platinum (08/19/08 09:55 AM)


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Offlineanyone420
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Platinum]
    #8794891 - 08/19/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

haha dunecat


--------------------
for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Platinum]
    #8794925 - 08/19/08 10:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said:
Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Disagree, for as much as I love pain, I even moreso love numbness. To feel nothing would be more ideal than feeling the range of emotions. I strive to be comfortably numb.

I also agree that that is a terrible song.




I don't understand how you would want to be numb for your entire life. To never know what love is? Or to never be excited? What kind of life is that? Not much of one at all IMO. A large part of life is the emotional roller coaster we all go through, the ups and downs, the good times the bad times... not the indifference of everything ever.

How could you be comfortably numb... thats a contradiction. If you are numb and have no feelings then you cannot be comfortable... or uncomfortable for that matter...




I figure Ill get to be numb after my life is over and I kinda look forward to it. I mean, emotional rollercoasters are as unenjoyable for me as real rollercoasters(which I despise). I wish I could be indifferent so that I wouldnt crave things like love or hate in the first place.

Im an impersonalist to begin with though so I believe that "self" is an illusion and to be dettached from all emotion is the ultimate form of union with the cosmos. I carefully strive for that through meditation; even during my trips and shun much of the values that a personalist would strive for.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8795790 - 08/19/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

You believe you are choosing whether or not to believe this.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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InvisibleHiei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #8795798 - 08/19/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Are you guys crazy? Pain hurts. lol

pleasure > nothing > pain

If you're talking about a prolonged pain, no way it can be better than feeling nothing. The only reason why it could, is that after some time you might get used to the pain and it would be just a "sensation", not real pain anymore.

Oh btw, lemme quote a great song

"I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real"

Peace.


--------------------
◄►۞◄►


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Hiei]
    #8795824 - 08/19/08 12:52 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hiei said:
"I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real"




Such a great song.  I always wanted to trip to the entirety of The Downward Spiral, although I'm pretty sure that's a one-way ticket to ending up cutting yourself while wallowing in suicidal self-loathing.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleHiei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8795886 - 08/19/08 01:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Absolutely. NOT suggested. :biggrin:


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◄►۞◄►


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Offlinepsychejam
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Hiei]
    #8796116 - 08/19/08 01:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Depersonalisation and derealisation are common disorders associated with psychedelic drug use, so I imagine a lot of people on these boards would have experienced them at one point or another.

Feeling numb is no fun. They even made a movie about depersonalisation, albeit a poor one, starring Matthew Perry. He got stuck with it after smoking one joint.

Do any of you guys suffer from dp/dr?


--------------------
"You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"


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InvisibleHiei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: psychejam]
    #8796187 - 08/19/08 01:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe. Dunno..

looking at Wikipedia's description it fuckin sounds like an OBE.. so I'd say fuck no.

Depersonalization (or depersonalisation) is an 'alteration' in the perception or experience of the self so that one feels 'detached' from, and as if one is an 'outside' observer of, one's mental processes or body. A feeling of watching oneself act, while having no control over a situation.[1] It can be considered desirable, such as in the use of recreational drugs, but it usually refers to the severe form found in anxiety and, in the most intense case, panic attacks. A sufferer feels that he or she has changed and the world has become less real, vague, dreamlike, or lacking in significance. It can sometimes be a rather disturbing experience, since many feel that indeed, they are living in a "dream."


--------------------
◄►۞◄►


Edited by Hiei (08/19/08 01:57 PM)


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: psychejam]
    #8796198 - 08/19/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psychejam said:
Depersonalisation and derealisation are common disorders associated with psychedelic drug use, so I imagine a lot of people on these boards would have experienced them at one point or another.

Feeling numb is no fun. They even made a movie about depersonalisation, albeit a poor one, starring Matthew Perry. He got stuck with it after smoking one joint.

Do any of you guys suffer from dp/dr?




if I did, I wouldn't care.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Platinum]
    #8796242 - 08/19/08 02:03 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Pretty sure you would care--from descriptions of DP/DR sufferers, it definitely sounds like a horrible condition: one where you feel removed from your body and unable to fully participate in life anymore.

Just check out any accounts at http://www.hppdonline.com/forum/index.php , for example.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8796260 - 08/19/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No I know, it was a joke. If you didn't have emotions/were numb, you wouldnt care because there's nothing to feel (i.e. you couldnt feel that you care)... was the point.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Platinum]
    #8796263 - 08/19/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said:
Quote:

psychejam said:
Depersonalisation and derealisation are common disorders associated with psychedelic drug use, so I imagine a lot of people on these boards would have experienced them at one point or another.

Feeling numb is no fun. They even made a movie about depersonalisation, albeit a poor one, starring Matthew Perry. He got stuck with it after smoking one joint.

Do any of you guys suffer from dp/dr?




if I did, I wouldn't care.





Oh yeah? You must be one tough nut. I bet you wouldn't care if you had depression either.

Trust me, you wouldn't enjoy dp/dr one little bit.

:smirk:


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8796277 - 08/19/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Right now I'm going  through depression and anxiety. It's harsh but feeling numb is the worst feeling in the world. Even worse than depression or anxiety. Trust me, you do not want to be feeling numb. At least I wouldn't.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8796297 - 08/19/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hinder blows.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: anyone420]
    #8796310 - 08/19/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Psychedelic Experience.

Reason:
Interesting question, but it's something that belongs in the Philosophy forum considering your original post didn't really have anything to do with the topics covered under this forum's header.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #8796348 - 08/19/08 02:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I felt numb until I was 14 years old. I felt no emotion, I was diagnosed by a psychotherapist as "indifferent towards everything and everyone" - i didn't feel happy, i didn't feel sad... I didn't feel love, even towards my own parents. I don't know what changed... how it changed, but it did. Either way I'm better now and I realize now how much it sucked.

edit: psychejam - read the psot right above your previous post...


Edited by Platinum (08/19/08 02:21 PM)


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8796599 - 08/19/08 02:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said:
Just like in order to be happy, you must have sadness. Otherwise it would just be an empty unknown feeling. To feel the happyness of happy, you must feel the sadness of sad. Happy cannot be happy without sad, just like pain cannot be pain without not-pain - it would just be an unknown empty feeling.




You don't need sadness to feel happiness....
It is all relative to the baseline-ness....
Just as one doesn't need  pain to feel pleasure, as they are both elated states from neutrality....


>^;;^<


--------------------
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>^;;^<


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8796872 - 08/19/08 03:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Quote:

Platinum said:
Just like in order to be happy, you must have sadness. Otherwise it would just be an empty unknown feeling. To feel the happyness of happy, you must feel the sadness of sad. Happy cannot be happy without sad, just like pain cannot be pain without not-pain - it would just be an unknown empty feeling.




You don't need sadness to feel happiness....
It is all relative to the baseline-ness....
Just as one doesn't need  pain to feel pleasure, as they are both elated states from neutrality....


>^;;^<




but to feel the happyness of happy you need to compare it to the sadness of sad. otherwise its just another emotion. how do you know what happy feels like if you cant feel the opposite? how do you KNOW its happy without something to compare it to? also... im talking about degrees of happiness. whats a little happy vs a lot of happy if you dont have anything to compare to?

ex: the badness of bad is a necessary bad in order to understand the goodness of good. think about it... really... it makes sense.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8797004 - 08/19/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Again, they are all relative to the state of neutrality....
To be "not happy" (or neutral/baseline) is what you base the relative scale of being "happy", or being "super-duper happy"....
You start with zero happy, and it escalates from there when you become more happy....
You don't start with sadness to become happy....
The same goes for sadness, pain, happiness, pleasure, rage, love, despair, compassion, etc....

What you are saying is that you must feel the worst possible sadness imaginable to feel the best possible happiness imaginable....
I don't feel this is the case, at all....
In my opinion, the emotional dualities are not dependent upon each other to be able to tell the distinction between levels, as they are all relative to "zero"....


>^;;^<


--------------------
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>^;;^<


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8797056 - 08/19/08 04:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Are we differentiating between pain of duration, or pain of ultimatum. Such as terminal cancer where you feel horrendous pain every day of the rest of your short life?

If it's limited duration of pain and suffering less than my willingness to cancel my life...then yes.

Otherwise...opiate overdose. Certainly. Unless there is some pressing conflict or other factor that must be resolved first, ending of life is better than suffering past the fear of death.

I would assume this answer would vary greatly from person to person and from situation to situation.



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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8797286 - 08/19/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

anyone420 said:
agree, or disagree?




Depends on the amount of pain. Let me strap you to the torture rack for awhile and then you would choose death I'm guessing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8797395 - 08/19/08 05:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said: ex: the badness of bad is a necessary bad in order to understand the goodness of good. think about it... really... it makes sense.




Yes, this is true, but only because good and evil are philosophical concepts.

Happiness, sadness, pain, and pleasure, are all neurochemical states, and thus do not require the existence of their dualistic opposites in order to exist themselves.  For instance, some humans are born without the capacity to feel pain.  They can still feel the pleasure of an orgasm, however.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: deCypher]
    #8797635 - 08/19/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Quote:

Platinum said: ex: the badness of bad is a necessary bad in order to understand the goodness of good. think about it... really... it makes sense.




Yes, this is true, but only because good and evil are philosophical concepts.

Happiness, sadness, pain, and pleasure, are all neurochemical states, and thus do not require the existence of their dualistic opposites in order to exist themselves.  For instance, some humans are born without the capacity to feel pain.  They can still feel the pleasure of an orgasm, however.




yeah i guess this is true. this makes sense.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8797678 - 08/19/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, but there is a similarity between ourselves, as we tend to agree on many issues, and disagree in generally proportionate manners on issues of morality, pain pleasure.

Ex) Of general populace agreeing, in western culture

Good - Volunteer Work, Marital Sex, Voting, Working, Loving Family

Borderline Good - Working too much, Political Service, Military Service, Having lots of sex

Borderline Bad - Using illegal drugs, Fetish Sex/Pornography, Watching too much TV/computer, Emo music

Bad - Using illegal drugs, using legal drugs, Marital sex, voting, working, loving family, working too much, volunteer work, fetish sex/pornography, having lots of sex, volunteer work, military service, emo music, sex/pornography, watching too much tv/computer...but mostly political service.



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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8797695 - 08/19/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Feeling nothing still isn't good as just feeling.  There is no pain, no pleasure, no numbness, only states of sensation in the spectrum of our human experience.


Edited by xFrockx (08/19/08 06:25 PM)


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: xFrockx]
    #8797747 - 08/19/08 06:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I'd not want to answer this until terminally-ill and in great pain. I think many of us would change our mind when there is NO CHANCE OF COMFORT ever to avail itself to the individual.

I'm speaking late-case illness where the pain is uncontrollable with ~.5 gram Fentanyl daily. My friend's grandmother came to the point of four OD's in three days, then after surviving spent four hours in pain. She OD'd trying to control her pain until it was clear she could no longer control her pain to a degree to make life worthwhile to suffer through. She was 86 years old and had cancer of the lung, liver, colon, and diabetes. Along with an amputated leg whom the doctor was sued for malpractice. She still felt the pain in her leg when she died, four years after the surgery.

She then asked for the plug to be pulled.

But this is an extreme situation. Otherwise, pain passes, and yes, it is worth it. Unless it will NEVER end. And intensify.

Then, death may be a better option. It depends on the case and the individual.



~Monk


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: numonkei]
    #8797754 - 08/19/08 06:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Pain is only a negative feeling if you make it so.  I don't think i could transcend pain, but I bet there are those out there that can/have.  Like those monks that set themselves on fire in Vietnam.


Edited by xFrockx (08/19/08 06:40 PM)


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: xFrockx]
    #8797789 - 08/19/08 06:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Pain is only a negative feeling if you make it so.  I don't think i could transcend pain, but I bet there are those out there that can/have.  Like those monks that set themselves on fire in Vietnam.




Yes, a good friend of mine killed himself at 16, 8/11/03, by imitating the monk's flame death, from the famous square.

He intended to die for other reasons, instant pain he felt. He DID fight for five hours after breathing the flaming fumes from the kerosene and gasoline into his lungs, which was his intention before the act, but died at the local university burn center five hours later.

His family was there, I was not, but he tried to apologize. All they heard was, "I love you, I'm gone, soon please, I love you". That's what his father wrote as his last words.

Maybe soon please means something else, but his father and mother seemed to think it referred to his death.

I've no experience with this sort of pain. I've felt days of prolonged pain from Rhyabdomyolsis after an unintentional overdose, then the residual pain in my faintly working right leg for two years after. Since, I have recovered enough to have nerve adjustment. But i had no choice. While the pain was occuring, I would have gladly died, especially after hearing the doctor say my leg may never come back. Or may be amputated.

Maybe the monks did transcend that pain. That does NOT mean that under such circumstances...well, I'd likely ask for the bullet rather than the extreme disabling pain until my death.

That's just my opinion, of course. I've never felt that disabling, permanent pain. But I'd bet many of you who would say there is no circumstance where death no better than suffering, when extreme and guaranteed, have so either. Otherwise, you would not likely be able to type on a message board.

Seeing a look in the eye of someone who used to put cigarettes out on her leg, begging for death from almost two years of constant pain, maybe I'm biased. But in the case if irreversible and extreme pain...

It should be understandable. Those of us who oppose, or agree but haven't felt such, have not been there. I could not have felt the pain of my friend's grandmother, but I would NEVER expect my experience to be close to her's, or my friends; not after seeing her writhing agony and crying, or hearing of my friends' final pleading to his family to end it. "Please"

RIP - JGP 8/11/03



~Monk


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8797861 - 08/19/08 07:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Pain is only a negative feeling if you make it so.




:what:
And pain is just an illusion, because Maynard said so....  :smirk:

Even building up a tolerance to pain I can see, but it doesn't make the pain "positive", it just means your threshold is higher than it once was....


>^;;^<


--------------------
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8798347 - 08/19/08 08:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, pain is still a pretty damn negative feeling.

Self-immolation is fairly badass though, I will admit.  How does one train yourself mentally to prepare for such an act!?


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8798536 - 08/19/08 09:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It certainly shows a lot of willpower and determination, I have to give them that....
And it seems to also be an act that makes a strong statement, but I am not sure what that statement would be exactly....    :shrug:
And I say "statement" because I always think of the monk that set himself on fire in front of an audience....
Why not do it alone, without an audience....?



The biggest question that comes to my mind is, WHY....?
What is "gained" by doing this....?
It seems to bring more questions than answers....and the bad part is that those questions can no longer be answered.... 

Maybe he was one of those strange few with that anomaly where they cannot feel physical pain....
I guess the best preparation for such an act would be to meditate for many years on becoming a chunk of ice, and practicing fire-walking....    :tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8798554 - 08/19/08 09:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
The biggest question that comes to my mind is, WHY....?
What is "gained" by doing this....?




Because martyrs have a way of making a point that few other people can.  This is the same reason that people still remember the Christians who voluntarily gave themselves up to the lions.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8798650 - 08/19/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

But, to what end....?
You obviously get everyone's attention,
but by volunteering to do something so drastically......crazy,
does it get people to believe and stand up for your cause -
or does it distance them from you by making them think you are crazy....?

I don't know the lion story context to make specific comments.... 


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: numonkei]
    #8818150 - 08/23/08 10:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

what if some/many of our actions are in attempt to not feel?  or to feel so much as to not feel?

where does this option lie?


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: demiu5]
    #8818295 - 08/23/08 11:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

There has to be pain because without it there would be no joy.  It is kinda a package deal in that sense...


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Libertine]
    #8818568 - 08/24/08 01:16 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Why does their have to be joy?


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: demiu5]
    #8818655 - 08/24/08 01:49 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
i'd rather feel nothing




I LOL'd when I read that.  It's such a simple, obvious answer.


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Icelander]
    #8818664 - 08/24/08 01:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

anyone420 said:
agree, or disagree?




Depends on the amount of pain. Let me strap you to the torture rack for awhile and then you would choose death I'm guessing.




Torture is kind of a recurring theme for you, isn't it Icelander?


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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: it stars saddam]
    #8819171 - 08/24/08 08:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Only when I read your posts.:grin:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Libertine]
    #8819339 - 08/24/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Libertine said:
There has to be pain because without it there would be no joy.  It is kinda a package deal in that sense...





i tend to disagree


Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Quote:

Platinum said:
Just like in order to be happy, you must have sadness. Otherwise it would just be an empty unknown feeling. To feel the happyness of happy, you must feel the sadness of sad. Happy cannot be happy without sad, just like pain cannot be pain without not-pain - it would just be an unknown empty feeling.




You don't need sadness to feel happiness....
It is all relative to the baseline-ness....
Just as one doesn't need  pain to feel pleasure, as they are both elated states from neutrality....


>^;;^<




--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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