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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: deCypher]
    #8796260 - 08/19/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

No I know, it was a joke. If you didn't have emotions/were numb, you wouldnt care because there's nothing to feel (i.e. you couldnt feel that you care)... was the point.


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Offlinepsychejam
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Platinum]
    #8796263 - 08/19/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said:
Quote:

psychejam said:
Depersonalisation and derealisation are common disorders associated with psychedelic drug use, so I imagine a lot of people on these boards would have experienced them at one point or another.

Feeling numb is no fun. They even made a movie about depersonalisation, albeit a poor one, starring Matthew Perry. He got stuck with it after smoking one joint.

Do any of you guys suffer from dp/dr?




if I did, I wouldn't care.





Oh yeah? You must be one tough nut. I bet you wouldn't care if you had depression either.

Trust me, you wouldn't enjoy dp/dr one little bit.

:smirk:


--------------------
"You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"


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Offlineadamgnome
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8796277 - 08/19/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Right now I'm going  through depression and anxiety. It's harsh but feeling numb is the worst feeling in the world. Even worse than depression or anxiety. Trust me, you do not want to be feeling numb. At least I wouldn't.


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OfflinePsilocybinMike
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8796297 - 08/19/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Hinder blows.


--------------------


baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVZBTAYm3rw


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: anyone420]
    #8796310 - 08/19/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Psychedelic Experience.

Reason:
Interesting question, but it's something that belongs in the Philosophy forum considering your original post didn't really have anything to do with the topics covered under this forum's header.


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #8796348 - 08/19/08 02:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I felt numb until I was 14 years old. I felt no emotion, I was diagnosed by a psychotherapist as "indifferent towards everything and everyone" - i didn't feel happy, i didn't feel sad... I didn't feel love, even towards my own parents. I don't know what changed... how it changed, but it did. Either way I'm better now and I realize now how much it sucked.

edit: psychejam - read the psot right above your previous post...


Edited by Platinum (08/19/08 02:21 PM)


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8796599 - 08/19/08 02:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said:
Just like in order to be happy, you must have sadness. Otherwise it would just be an empty unknown feeling. To feel the happyness of happy, you must feel the sadness of sad. Happy cannot be happy without sad, just like pain cannot be pain without not-pain - it would just be an unknown empty feeling.




You don't need sadness to feel happiness....
It is all relative to the baseline-ness....
Just as one doesn't need  pain to feel pleasure, as they are both elated states from neutrality....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8796872 - 08/19/08 03:50 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Quote:

Platinum said:
Just like in order to be happy, you must have sadness. Otherwise it would just be an empty unknown feeling. To feel the happyness of happy, you must feel the sadness of sad. Happy cannot be happy without sad, just like pain cannot be pain without not-pain - it would just be an unknown empty feeling.




You don't need sadness to feel happiness....
It is all relative to the baseline-ness....
Just as one doesn't need  pain to feel pleasure, as they are both elated states from neutrality....


>^;;^<




but to feel the happyness of happy you need to compare it to the sadness of sad. otherwise its just another emotion. how do you know what happy feels like if you cant feel the opposite? how do you KNOW its happy without something to compare it to? also... im talking about degrees of happiness. whats a little happy vs a lot of happy if you dont have anything to compare to?

ex: the badness of bad is a necessary bad in order to understand the goodness of good. think about it... really... it makes sense.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8797004 - 08/19/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Again, they are all relative to the state of neutrality....
To be "not happy" (or neutral/baseline) is what you base the relative scale of being "happy", or being "super-duper happy"....
You start with zero happy, and it escalates from there when you become more happy....
You don't start with sadness to become happy....
The same goes for sadness, pain, happiness, pleasure, rage, love, despair, compassion, etc....

What you are saying is that you must feel the worst possible sadness imaginable to feel the best possible happiness imaginable....
I don't feel this is the case, at all....
In my opinion, the emotional dualities are not dependent upon each other to be able to tell the distinction between levels, as they are all relative to "zero"....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8797056 - 08/19/08 04:16 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Are we differentiating between pain of duration, or pain of ultimatum. Such as terminal cancer where you feel horrendous pain every day of the rest of your short life?

If it's limited duration of pain and suffering less than my willingness to cancel my life...then yes.

Otherwise...opiate overdose. Certainly. Unless there is some pressing conflict or other factor that must be resolved first, ending of life is better than suffering past the fear of death.

I would assume this answer would vary greatly from person to person and from situation to situation.



~Monk


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8797286 - 08/19/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

anyone420 said:
agree, or disagree?




Depends on the amount of pain. Let me strap you to the torture rack for awhile and then you would choose death I'm guessing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8797395 - 08/19/08 05:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Platinum said: ex: the badness of bad is a necessary bad in order to understand the goodness of good. think about it... really... it makes sense.




Yes, this is true, but only because good and evil are philosophical concepts.

Happiness, sadness, pain, and pleasure, are all neurochemical states, and thus do not require the existence of their dualistic opposites in order to exist themselves.  For instance, some humans are born without the capacity to feel pain.  They can still feel the pleasure of an orgasm, however.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinePlatinum
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: deCypher]
    #8797635 - 08/19/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Quote:

Platinum said: ex: the badness of bad is a necessary bad in order to understand the goodness of good. think about it... really... it makes sense.




Yes, this is true, but only because good and evil are philosophical concepts.

Happiness, sadness, pain, and pleasure, are all neurochemical states, and thus do not require the existence of their dualistic opposites in order to exist themselves.  For instance, some humans are born without the capacity to feel pain.  They can still feel the pleasure of an orgasm, however.




yeah i guess this is true. this makes sense.


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all (moved) [Re: Platinum]
    #8797678 - 08/19/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, but there is a similarity between ourselves, as we tend to agree on many issues, and disagree in generally proportionate manners on issues of morality, pain pleasure.

Ex) Of general populace agreeing, in western culture

Good - Volunteer Work, Marital Sex, Voting, Working, Loving Family

Borderline Good - Working too much, Political Service, Military Service, Having lots of sex

Borderline Bad - Using illegal drugs, Fetish Sex/Pornography, Watching too much TV/computer, Emo music

Bad - Using illegal drugs, using legal drugs, Marital sex, voting, working, loving family, working too much, volunteer work, fetish sex/pornography, having lots of sex, volunteer work, military service, emo music, sex/pornography, watching too much tv/computer...but mostly political service.



~Monk


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: Alicedee25]
    #8797695 - 08/19/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Feeling nothing still isn't good as just feeling.  There is no pain, no pleasure, no numbness, only states of sensation in the spectrum of our human experience.


Edited by xFrockx (08/19/08 06:25 PM)


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: xFrockx]
    #8797747 - 08/19/08 06:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I'd not want to answer this until terminally-ill and in great pain. I think many of us would change our mind when there is NO CHANCE OF COMFORT ever to avail itself to the individual.

I'm speaking late-case illness where the pain is uncontrollable with ~.5 gram Fentanyl daily. My friend's grandmother came to the point of four OD's in three days, then after surviving spent four hours in pain. She OD'd trying to control her pain until it was clear she could no longer control her pain to a degree to make life worthwhile to suffer through. She was 86 years old and had cancer of the lung, liver, colon, and diabetes. Along with an amputated leg whom the doctor was sued for malpractice. She still felt the pain in her leg when she died, four years after the surgery.

She then asked for the plug to be pulled.

But this is an extreme situation. Otherwise, pain passes, and yes, it is worth it. Unless it will NEVER end. And intensify.

Then, death may be a better option. It depends on the case and the individual.



~Monk


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: numonkei]
    #8797754 - 08/19/08 06:39 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Pain is only a negative feeling if you make it so.  I don't think i could transcend pain, but I bet there are those out there that can/have.  Like those monks that set themselves on fire in Vietnam.


Edited by xFrockx (08/19/08 06:40 PM)


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: xFrockx]
    #8797789 - 08/19/08 06:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Pain is only a negative feeling if you make it so.  I don't think i could transcend pain, but I bet there are those out there that can/have.  Like those monks that set themselves on fire in Vietnam.




Yes, a good friend of mine killed himself at 16, 8/11/03, by imitating the monk's flame death, from the famous square.

He intended to die for other reasons, instant pain he felt. He DID fight for five hours after breathing the flaming fumes from the kerosene and gasoline into his lungs, which was his intention before the act, but died at the local university burn center five hours later.

His family was there, I was not, but he tried to apologize. All they heard was, "I love you, I'm gone, soon please, I love you". That's what his father wrote as his last words.

Maybe soon please means something else, but his father and mother seemed to think it referred to his death.

I've no experience with this sort of pain. I've felt days of prolonged pain from Rhyabdomyolsis after an unintentional overdose, then the residual pain in my faintly working right leg for two years after. Since, I have recovered enough to have nerve adjustment. But i had no choice. While the pain was occuring, I would have gladly died, especially after hearing the doctor say my leg may never come back. Or may be amputated.

Maybe the monks did transcend that pain. That does NOT mean that under such circumstances...well, I'd likely ask for the bullet rather than the extreme disabling pain until my death.

That's just my opinion, of course. I've never felt that disabling, permanent pain. But I'd bet many of you who would say there is no circumstance where death no better than suffering, when extreme and guaranteed, have so either. Otherwise, you would not likely be able to type on a message board.

Seeing a look in the eye of someone who used to put cigarettes out on her leg, begging for death from almost two years of constant pain, maybe I'm biased. But in the case if irreversible and extreme pain...

It should be understandable. Those of us who oppose, or agree but haven't felt such, have not been there. I could not have felt the pain of my friend's grandmother, but I would NEVER expect my experience to be close to her's, or my friends; not after seeing her writhing agony and crying, or hearing of my friends' final pleading to his family to end it. "Please"

RIP - JGP 8/11/03



~Monk


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: anyone420]
    #8797861 - 08/19/08 07:06 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Pain is only a negative feeling if you make it so.




:what:
And pain is just an illusion, because Maynard said so....  :smirk:

Even building up a tolerance to pain I can see, but it doesn't make the pain "positive", it just means your threshold is higher than it once was....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: i'd rather feel pain than feel nothin at all [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8798347 - 08/19/08 08:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, pain is still a pretty damn negative feeling.

Self-immolation is fairly badass though, I will admit.  How does one train yourself mentally to prepare for such an act!?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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