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Offlinepftek
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12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives?
    #8791103 - 08/18/08 03:48 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Its been 12 days. Theyve been in a closet at roughly 76-82 degrees. Mostly around 78 degrees. These are B+. My friend gave the syringes to me - theyve been sitting around in his basement for 7 months.

I used 3 syringes for 24 jars. Only 5 of the jars (which I separated to the right for the picture have shown signs of germination). 



Im not sure what I should do now. I still have plenty of syringes. Should I try to inoculate these jars one more time? Should I remove the foil tops? Should I pressure cook these jars again, then inoculate? Should I just start all over?

So many questions.

19 of the 24 jars look like this:



4 of the jars look like this (with growth only on one of the four inoculation sites):



1 jar looks like this:



Edited by pftek (08/18/08 04:02 PM)


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: pftek]
    #8791244 - 08/18/08 04:20 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Somethings obviously wrong.

give some more details, are these pf teks, they substrate looks really dark? if that is pf tek then the moisture content looks way to wet.

Pf tek should be a very light fluffy texture with a floury colour.

Having your substrate to wet will definatly hinder colinisation.

Another possibility is the jars are contaminated with bacteria.

Try taking a photo with macro mode and give more details on your procedures

Syringes are bad

Or your inoculation procedures wernt sterile enough (though i would expect to see mould)

Im thinking that either your substrate wasnt properly sterilised or water conent based on looking at the photos.

The last jar with the most growth looks a little odd. there are some grey areas and the mycelium looks really fluffy but the picture isnt the clearest.


--------------------

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Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Offlinepftek
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #8791401 - 08/18/08 04:52 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I used the PF-Tek (1/2 pint jars, brf, vermaculite) with the addition of an additive from mycostore (it's a nutrient additive). I used a little bit more water since I added this substance.

There isn't a puddle at the bottom of these jars. However, I can't tell if they are too wet. I believe my sterilization method were pretty good. I used a pressure cooker for almost 1.5 hours. I bleached the air and closet pretty hard core. Let the room sit. Then came in closed the door and inoculated each jar. I did however, knock the tops off the pressure cooker. Too cool the jars quicker. The steam shot out of the cooker. Not sure if that's a no-no? I did wait 24 hours, to allow them to cool, before inoculation.

I tried taking better pictures but what I see is not what comes into the camera. The odd colors in the white fluffy stuff is substrate.

If they are too wet, if that were the cause should I take the foil off and inoculate again? Put them out in a room? Or is it just a lost cause?

Here's another picture- maybe it'll help:



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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: pftek]
    #8791462 - 08/18/08 05:05 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Remove the foil of those jars, having foil over the lids will hinder gas exchange which can slow growth.

You have the dry verm layer right? this is your filter and will catch any contaminant spores that may find there way in threw the inoc holes. You can also use micropore tape (3M stuff i think) over the holes but its not really nessary.

BRF has plenty of nuitrients, i wouldnt think that you would need to add anything.

The syringes you got from your friend, did he make them??

Personaly i would use a glovebox, works on the principle of still air and no need to lysol and bleach the crap out of everything (which can be dangerous when flaming your needle and not great for your breathing)


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Offlinepftek
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: pftek]
    #8791503 - 08/18/08 05:13 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I just removed the foil lids. There is about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch of dry vermiculite on top of each.

These syringes were actually purchased in September (so they are actually 10 months old) from Lil Shop of Spores. I have 11 more syringes. So I don't mind using more to re-inoculate if that'll help.


Edited by pftek (08/18/08 05:16 PM)


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InvisibleR10tGuNn3r

Registered: 08/06/08
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #8791526 - 08/18/08 05:20 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

how much gas exchange is needed on brf jars? i was under the impression they were pretty much sealed to keep serility??


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Offlinepftek
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: pftek]
    #8791898 - 08/18/08 06:57 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I just noticed now that there is visible sweat on the inside of the glass.

Here are some more pictures (using macro):









Should the insides of my jars be sweating?


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InvisibleFooManM
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: pftek]
    #8791930 - 08/18/08 07:03 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

pftek said:
My friend gave the syringes to me - theyve been sitting around in his basement for 7 months.





I bet that's 98% of the problem right there.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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OfflineMad River
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: FooMan]
    #8792364 - 08/18/08 09:12 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

The condensation is probably not too meaningful. I think you have two problems:

1> Your spores are old and probably not at maximum viability.
2> Your jars look to me to have 'wet spot,' a bacterial infection that basically eats your brown rice flour, leaving very little nutrition in your jar for the mycelium (at least that's what seems to be happening in my experience). The mycelium can overcome this, but it will probably take a very, very long time.

I am still a newb myself, but that's my opinion. Good luck. :tongue::thumbup:


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Offlinespazn420
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: Mad River]
    #8792513 - 08/18/08 09:55 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, the syringes are pretty old, thats why you got a low germination rate


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: spazn420]
    #8792530 - 08/18/08 09:59 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

All four pictures above are mold, not mushroom mycelium.  Toss them and start over.  Next time, use fresh syringes and 1/2 pint jars.  Pints suck for the BRF Tek.
RR


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Offlinepftek
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8793626 - 08/19/08 01:50 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

okay i think i may toss all these jars. I'll keep them in the closest for a few more days and see if anything comes from them.

also, can I get a second opinion, is that not mycelium? or is that fungus?

If it's the latter, that means I didn't pressure cooker it long enough? - 1.5 hours is pretty long. Did I not inoculate safely? i had a 1/2 inch of dry verm on top and quickly covered.

I'll start new jars in two days. with new syringes.


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OfflineThorot
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: pftek]
    #8798249 - 08/19/08 10:34 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

IMO theres way too much water in those jars.  Use less water in your next jars.  Theres virtually zero hope for those jars, even the ones that have started to colonize.  By the time they are 100% they will almost certainly end up with contams.

Notice how you have clumpy substrate in the first pic?  Thats a sign of way too much water.  You want your substrate to be light and fluffy like in the second pic.  Theres a large color difference as well ... with too much water it will look like mud and with the right amount it will look lighter brown.



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OfflineMad River
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Re: 12 days using BRF 1/2 pint jar NO GERMINATION What gives? [Re: Thorot]
    #8798475 - 08/19/08 11:16 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Thorot said:
IMO theres way too much water in those jars.  Use less water in your next jars.  Theres virtually zero hope for those jars, even the ones that have started to colonize.  By the time they are 100% they will almost certainly end up with contams.

Notice how you have clumpy substrate in the first pic?  Thats a sign of way too much water.  You want your substrate to be light and fluffy like in the second pic.  Theres a large color difference as well ... with too much water it will look like mud and with the right amount it will look lighter brown.






I've had cakes start out looking like the one on the bottom, and end up like the one on top. It's bacterial infection.


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