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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8807880 - 08/21/08 08:22 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I will take offense, because you suggest that because I have more exacting standards of what real objective evidence is, that I am somehow an inferior form of life.  This has absolutely nothing to do with egoism.  The fact that you are changing the subject implies that you feel threatened by the evidence I am presenting, because you cannot counter it, and hence, will not address it.


--------------------

Edited by Minstrel (08/21/08 08:24 PM)

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Minstrel]
    #8807902 - 08/21/08 08:27 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I am merely suggesting that WE are not presently very evolved.  You took offense?  I include myself in the statement about not being very evolved...

How about high speed turns in outer space?  I touched a nerve about us not being very evolved.

Checkout the vid at 6 minutes for interesting footage.

&feature=related

For something that has nothing to do with egos you dudes are kind of pissed...
Edit
Don't worry though, we're the smart monkeys that eat mushrooms...  Can you imagine homo erectus noshing some mushies and peering into a pool of water?  That must have been priceless...

Edited by Mr.Al (08/21/08 08:41 PM)

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8807925 - 08/21/08 08:33 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I am interested in your view given that you have access to a telescope. I haven't had access to one for about 4 years so...  Whatcha think about how those funky donuts appear to be pulsating?  Isn't it odd that said "debris" is flying in different directions and speeds?  Now, in regards to the second video, how is it that a high speed object just outside of our atmosphere can change direction so sharply and abruptly?  How did that other object obviously leave Earth's atmosphere without having some form of internal propulsion?  I'm not trying to ignore you friend.

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Diploid]
    #8807937 - 08/21/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Why are you so content to touch on my nerves?  That's not scientific debate.  You have NO hard evidience to support your UFO claims, and you are willing to lie to misrepresent ordinary phenomena, so why should I care about your ideas on the evolution of humanity?  I have a very good appreciation of my being in the universe thanks to know knowledge of science, and I don't need your self-denigrating dogma (yet another trait of organized religion, how about that?). 

Once again, you are a zealot.


--------------------

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8808056 - 08/21/08 08:58 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Well I've never been fond of Romans if that's what you mean.  Nowadays we even have (re)publicans!  The U.S. has been acting much like a (roman) empire, overextending itself militarily.  We even have senators and individuals starting wars to gain more political power!

As far as beliefs and such...  I have "met" some strange non-physical characters before, but I still don't claim that they are real...  I don't know either way...

But seriously what do you think about the high speed turn and the thing leaving Earth's atmosphere at a tremendous speed?

As far as self denigration is concerned, I acknowledge that my physical vehicle is not terribly evolved.  However I don't identify with be-ing my body so I feel o.k. with that.  I mean you don't feel uptight (or impressed with yourself) based upon the automobile you drive right?  Same difference.
EDIT
namaste dude.
Namaste (sanskrit): Greetings or fare thee well to the spark of consciousness that originally came from God (yes  that character is real too, universally speaking) that presently resides within and animates the physical form that I "see" here before me now.

Hey, the divine spark is within us all.  Even though we're kind of hairy and still not so good with the smart making.
Further EDIT
Hey and smoke a fat one if you got it...Wish I did:gethigh:
Peace friends, within and without

Edited by Mr.Al (08/21/08 09:16 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8808205 - 08/21/08 09:22 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

On the other hand, this Sereda fuck will gladly sell you his wild ideas

Or his misconceptions. Here's another great example of how people who want ET to be real usually refuse to dig into their 'evidence' with critical thought. Clicky the pic to read the original newspaper article:



The Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) is a device that orbits the sun just inside the orbit of the Earth and trailing the Earth. Its mission is to study the Sun.

One of the cameras aboard SOHO uses a Charged Coupled Device (CCD) similar to those found in digital cameras. Small manufacturing defects in CCDs are common and compensated for in software when the devices are put into service.

In the case of SOHO, there are known CCD defects which the scientists working on the project have been aware of since before the spacecraft was launched.  The defects are uncompensated because precision raw data is more important to an astronomer than a picture adjusted to look pretty. The defects appears over and over in the same pixels in every image.

Nevertheless, with every batch of images released into the public domain by the team, a spate of UFO claims pop up pointing to these known CCD defects as 'proof' of alien visitation. (See pic)

Here's a quote from one of the SOHO scientists:

In recent days, we've been receiving so many questions and claims that we'd like to set the record straight: We've never seen anything that even suggests that there are UFOs 'out there'.

People do see interesting things in SOHO images. Among the most common sources of UFO claims are imaging artifacts (cosmic rays, for example, can produce spots and streaks on the CCD detector); data and software flaws; planets.

Some instrument defects have been known since before launch, but the resulting artifact gets "discovered" and reported as UFOs over and over. Still, claims are looked into because SOHO does make discoveries, including more than 500 comets that were either rounding the Sun or on their way to a fiery death plunge.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8808318 - 08/21/08 09:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

How about high speed turns in outer space?

A few years ago something similar happened in New Mexico where virtually an entire town latched onto the most implausible of all explanations too. They saw lights in the sky that "couldn't" be from Earth because there were no airports or military bases nearby, and the lights made abrupt right-angle turns.

Turns out the lights were just car traffic in a town about 60 miles away on the other side of a mountain range. You see, the lights from the distant town were being refracted off a standing thermocline in the atmosphere, like a mirage on a hot roadway.

The effective angle of the mirror varied as the temperature gradient in the atmosphere moved with the wind flowing over the mountains. This gave the illusion of the "impossible" abrupt right-angle turns and explained the lack of sound.

Interestingly, the thermocline also gave false radar returns (radio waves refract just like light does) and lent false credibility to the ET proponents who insisted that "impossible" right-angle turns were recorded on radar. Nevermind that radar operators have long known about this effect which is a common occurrence when certain temperature gradients exist in the atmosphere.

This theme repeats over and over. The Phoenix Lights is another similar event that was definitively explained even though thousands of people insisted (and still do) that they were looking at alien ships. They were actually seeing military flairs as they fell.

When skeptics examined the video evidence, they found that the lights all vanished directly in-line with a mountain range between Phoenix and a nearby air force base.

In the dark against a dark sky, the outline of the mountains could not be seen, so the lights appeared to simply vanish. Superimposing an outline of the mountain range on the videos confirms this: the Phoenix Lights were flares that vanished from sight when they dropped behind the invisible outline of the mountain range.

It's also interesting that there are now hundreds of millions of high-quality cell phone cameras on the planet, yet fuzzy could-be-anythings are the best images anyone can come up with.

The explanation for this is simple. When the object is far enough away that you can't tell what it is, the mind immediately jumps on the ET explanation.

Then if the object gets close enough that you can tell it's an ordinary Earth object like an airplane or balloon, you discard the video. Why keep boring pics of airplanes and balloons right? Why show them to your friends who will laugh at you for confusing a 747 with ET?

This has the effect of filtering all the UFO images such that the ones that get close enough to be identified as an airplane or balloon are discarded, and the ones that stay far enough away that you can't tell what they are become "proof" of ET.

These kinds of misinterpretations and the complete lack of physical evidence are the defining characteristics of ET sightings.

Learn to think critically! It's the best way to filter out self-deception, wishful thinking, and honest mistakes from the Truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Posts: 1,974
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8808339 - 08/21/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Well I've never been fond of Romans if that's what you mean.  Nowadays we even have (re)publicans!  The U.S. has been acting much like a (roman) empire, overextending itself militarily.  We even have senators and individuals starting wars to gain more political power!

As far as beliefs and such...  I have "met" some strange non-physical characters before, but I still don't claim that they are real...  I don't know either way...

But seriously what do you think about the high speed turn and the thing leaving Earth's atmosphere at a tremendous speed?

As far as self denigration is concerned, I acknowledge that my physical vehicle is not terribly evolved.  However I don't identify with be-ing my body so I feel o.k. with that.  I mean you don't feel uptight (or impressed with yourself) based upon the automobile you drive right?  Same difference.
EDIT
namaste dude.
Namaste (sanskrit): Greetings or fare thee well to the spark of consciousness that originally came from God (yes  that character is real too, universally speaking) that presently resides within and animates the physical form that I "see" here before me now.

Hey, the divine spark is within us all.  Even though we're kind of hairy and still not so good with the smart making.
Further EDIT
Hey and smoke a fat one if you got it...Wish I did:gethigh:
Peace friends, within and without




Again, you are changing the subject, to imperialism and politics.  You have nothing to contribute science wise.  You continue this fallacy that these things are moving at high speed away.  This is because of the flawed assumption that you can determine how far away they are (which also debunks the idea that he can determine their size).  You can't, and since the camera is a moving frame of reference anyway, you have NO basis to judge absolute velocity.

Bunk.

Keep drinking the fluorinated water.  Ask your doctor if Paxil is right for you.


--------------------

Edited by Minstrel (08/21/08 09:46 PM)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8809310 - 08/22/08 01:55 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Investigated by the U.S. government and their disinformation agents???




Statements like this weaken your case because not only do we have to believe that the evidence is real, now we have to believe that it's being actively covered up by the government. You have to pile on more assumptions while the skeptic doesn't.

I have a feeling everything has been said in this thread now...


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Diploid]
    #8809467 - 08/22/08 03:38 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
ET proponents assume a light in the sky is ET





No matter how much I tell you you just don't get it.

You think that people that have seen advanced flying craft up close are "ET proponents" and that all they see is a "light in the sky".

Yes there are many cases like that but why are you ignoring the real evidence?

I'm not talking about lights in the sky.  These have no interest for me or any other serious UFO researcher.

We are talking about close encounters.  Encounters where credible witnesses get to a very close distance or actually board a floating disc.  Encounters where several radars track the objects.  Encounters where pilots see huge discs next to their aircraft and they are also picked up on radar by air traffic control.  Encounters with that leave radiation and physical indentation in the ground as well as several military witnesses stating they stood within 40 foot of a metallic floating triangle with lights on it.

Just accept that these are not the planet Venus, the witnesses are not untrained observers and they are not ET proponents.

You clearly have hardly even studied the phenomena yet your willing spread your misguided judgment of it.  Go watch the disclosure project and educate yourself.

Theres people all of very high military ranking telling the truth.  The don't make any money out of it.  They actually risk losing their army pensions.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8809483 - 08/22/08 03:44 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

As some of you where on the subject of NASA


Now don't even get me started on Gorden Cooper and Edgar Mitchel etc ...

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8809484 - 08/22/08 03:47 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I'd sure like to see some high quality photos and videos that aren't grainy, blurry, jerky or underexposed. It's like with that bigfoot thing - I knew it was a hoax as soon as I saw the quality of the photo. An ordinary point-and-shoot camera can capture better photos than that.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: zouden]
    #8809499 - 08/22/08 03:52 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)



See the bit where a flash appears from a crater and and a UFO flys overhead?

NASA had seismometers on the surface of the moon this time as they thought these flashes must be impact activity but the seismometers picked up nothing.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: zouden]
    #8809504 - 08/22/08 03:56 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)



This is a photo of the Belgium craft that was picked up on several different radars.  Chased by F-16's who had repeated lock-ons but confirmed it outmaneuvered them and was also much of the time flying to high (out of Earths atmosphere).  It was also photographed, videoed and reported by hundreds of independent corroborating witnesses.  The Belgium government themselves admitted they thought ET explanation was likely.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8809515 - 08/22/08 04:03 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

That's a pretty cool photo... is there a video of that event?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: zouden]
    #8809636 - 08/22/08 05:49 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Theres several although the videos I've seen are not as close up as the photo.

Search for Belgium UFO video and see what you can find.

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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8887957 - 09/06/08 06:32 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Personally, I don't believe that there is reliable evidence that extraterrestrials have visited earth and abducted people.  I suspect that witnesses are lying, hallucinating and delusional.

Anyway, to answer your question simply:

No matter how absolutely stupid and groundless your assertions might be about how there is good evidence for ETs having visited (which I don't buy), there is absolutely no reason to consider the investigation of extraterrestrials "paranormal" phenomena.  ETs, like anything else, can be a part of empirical science.

If you really think there is good evidence, I'd be willing to look at it for sure, but often when I object to ideas like ESP or whatnot I get responses to websites with huge amounts of text describing events that may or may not have happened, with nothing substantial to back these stories up.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Plasmid]
    #8887998 - 09/06/08 06:46 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

>but often when I object to ideas like ESP or whatnot I get responses to websites with huge amounts of text describing events that may or may not have happened

Yeah or I get like 7 youtube videos, which I never watch either.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Plasmid]
    #8889902 - 09/07/08 07:44 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Your basing everything you've said on preconceived ideas and notions with no actual research.

What about when pilots see these craft up-close and they are also confirmed by radar?  There are hundreds of incidents where this has happened.  I can accept that its not likely all these pilots and the people working with radars are all in on a big lie or delusional at the same time.  Why anybody would think that to be more likely - I do not know.

If you do accept the testimony of the pilots and the corroborating radar evidence then you could claim its secret advanced human craft but did humans really have technology such as inertia cancelers back in world war 2 when hundreds of people witnessed "foo fighters".  We still haven't invented a device that could cancel inertia to date.

In terms of alien abductions or alien close encounters there have been cases such as Stephen Michalak where the witness was burnt by the craft.  He was hospitalized and suffered from radiation poisoning as a result of his encounter.  Do delusions and lies really account for an incident such as this?  I think not.



People claim that theres no cover-up.  No conspiracy.  Yet the British governments own UFO investigator Nick Pope (MOD) admitted that we did advise witnesses to keep quiet because the MOD did not want to publicly admit that there were craft in our sky that were so technologically advanced that they were beyond our control.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is it time to classify ET under science instead of paranormal? [Re: Ego Death]
    #8889914 - 09/07/08 07:48 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Do you believe that the governments of the world are doing an effective job at suppressing knowledge of UFOs? Are they to blame for the supposed lack of scientific interest?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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