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InvisibleIcelander
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My death anxiety
    #8787958 - 08/17/08 07:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I certainly have it. In my life I have tried to find and face what is true. I certainly would like to believe that I'm somehow special and eternal and that I can go on until I find bliss and fulfillment in eternity.

However I have not found real evidence for it. As I have looked deeply at my motivations for my thoughts and feelings and beliefs they all lead back to the fact that I am afraid of not being.

All the beliefs I have adopted are in service of reasuring my insecurites that I am not a temporary event with no more importance than a thought that quickly passes and is no more.

Even my belief that I have no permenence but the energy of my being goes on is in service of reassuring myself that I am part of something enduring that is personal (I am part of everything) (see, I'm always saying "I"). I just can't get away from death anxiety.

I believe that I am going to go on this way until I find out one way or another. I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all. That creates anxiey whether I like it or not.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (08/17/08 07:52 PM)

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OfflineEpigallo
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8788350 - 08/17/08 08:44 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Even my belief that I have no permenence but the energy of my being goes on is in service of reassuring myself that I am part of something enduring that is personal (I am part of everything)




This doesn't seem like a belief to me, but a scientific fact. If, by this you meant that your actions become part of everything they touch.


Of course that's not the same as living forever. But think, if we could each live hundreds thousands of years into the future we would probably each be uncrecognizable to ourselves as we are today, due to our many adaptations. So, what do we want anyway?

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Epigallo]
    #8788360 - 08/17/08 08:46 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

We want to be happy, in ways that we can understand now.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Invisiblederanger
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Posts: 6,840
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8788438 - 08/17/08 09:01 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all.

Word, the only thing I can be completely sure of is the fact that I am existing right now.  Everything else is fantasy.

But the thought of not existing sure does suck.

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Offlinesatyr
אתה בעצמך יודע


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8788460 - 08/17/08 09:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I certainly have it. In my life I have tried to find and face what is true. I certainly would like to believe that I'm somehow special and eternal and that I can go on until I find bliss and fulfillment in eternity.

However I have not found real evidence for it. As I have looked deeply at my motivations for my thoughts and feelings and beliefs they all lead back to the fact that I am afraid of not being.



Have you found any evidence that you are not eternal?
We adopt belief systems all of the time. Sometimes out of fear of not being, sometimes to gain particular advantage in certain aspects of our lives.
The problem with belief systems is that they are just that: beliefs. Nothing can ever truly back them up. 
We believe that we are eternal
We believe that we are simply organic robots that cease to exist at death.
The only way we can overcome these issues is by dropping our expectations and living in the now.
Learning to operate and function off of our own awareness of the world around us, and not off of learned beliefs, is key to setting ourselves free.

My recommendation for you would be a session with ayahuasca.
No beliefs, no expectations, just to drink, listen, and be aware.
T


--------------------
Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade :pm:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: My death anxiety *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #8788482 - 08/17/08 09:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by MarkostheGnostic

Reason for deletion: Do I need a 'reason?'



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/17/08 09:38 PM)

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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8788626 - 08/17/08 09:44 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I think satyr's first question is a good one to at least ease your mind...but I understand your frustration. I definitely believe many things just to sustain my belief that I will always remain. My biggest piece of evidence or perpetuation is that there have been thousands of people all over the world in different cultures and all points in time that claimed existence of life outside of ours. I have astral projected and had "feelings of divinity" but it still isn't enough to convince me that I won't just case to exist once I die.

Funnily enough, I have been thinking about this a lot lately, also. I think it is one of the biggest quests in human life, though. Shamans are considered one of the most valiant of all spiritual people and they have a firm grasp of death and dying...in fact, shamans must be comfortable with it in order to move between worlds. The point I'm trying to make is ease of mind with death is hard to come by and many people avoid it - intensely. Even though it's a strange thing from what you're used to, it seems very mature of you to be considering it and taking on the challenge, so to speak.

About two weeks ago as I had been considering this, I saw a youtube clip of Carl Sagan explaining "the pale blue dot." As he wove together all the experiences of human kind, which from the distance of Saturn were completely amiss, I was reminded that worrying about death is kind of a moot point. The thing that stuck out to me is that he explained how every person who had lived on this planet in all human history, has died. Famous and poor people alike all went through their lives with the ups and downs with nothing at all to take stock in what they've accomplished....I think it kind of made me mentally band together with everyone else, like a "We're all in this together," so of idea. But in any case, the idea that outside of our planet - and not even very far for that matter, our minute worries and squabbles don't mean jack.

For me the biggest thing that has helped me start getting away from this fear is an emotional touch instead of an intellectual conclusion. I was just going to describe the Carl Sagan video, but I think you might like it, so lemme find it..

&ei=UO-oSMb4F4yc4gLtxPi_DQ&q=carl+sagan+pale+blue+dot&vt=lf&hl=en

And yaknow, Carl Sagan just has a really soothing voice. Man I wish he was my grandpa! What a story teller...

Edited by fazdazzle (08/17/08 09:47 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8788719 - 08/17/08 10:09 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
....
I believe that I am going to go on this way until I find out one way or another. I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all. That creates anxiey whether I like it or not.





ever hear of escalation?
at some point you may get a handle on this feedback.
you can choke that back a bit and find a good balance.
let the issues see themselves

naturally there is always some hunger to deal with.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8788754 - 08/17/08 10:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I get an awful feeling in my chest when I think to myself that one day I will die and cease to exist for eternity.

At the same time, imagining anything happening without end devastates me.  But so does the thought of there being an end to eternity, because then there would be nothing forever.

I take some comfort in the fact that my body will decompose and provide nutrients to grass and maggots.

Sometimes when I'm really able to grasp it I feel alone and hopeless and I cry.  It was worse when I was a kid, before I was able to build up defenses in my mind.

Neither Heaven nor Hell could be an answer, only another problem.  There is no personal comfort in the reality of eternity imo.

Sleep forever without so much as a dream.

(We're on a road to nowhere | Here is where time is on our side)


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (08/17/08 10:52 PM)

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8788804 - 08/17/08 10:40 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

>>>>I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all. That creates anxiety whether I like it or not.

Despite all the tautological reasoning, I see growth... or perhaps in part because of it. I think the life that is lived, is the story that is told. That spiritual ladder, where does it lead?

:shrug:

Thinking of my ego (the "I") as dead, already, seems to clear things up a little in the ego department.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8789021 - 08/17/08 11:47 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know man....
Perhaps it is like an unconditional acceptance or "surrendering" to the idea of what lies behind that -
which we do not understand about death that helps one get past the anxiety that you speak of....
Our talks on the subject have made me more aware of death, but my feelings have not changed about it....

I also bought the video and watched "The Flight from Death" that Veritas recommended....
It was an interesting video, with some strange experiments, but I honestly didn't agree with some of it....
I really dug the hippie dood (psychology professor?), he had a magnificent poetically colorful way of speaking....    :thumbup:
I will watch it again before too long....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8789214 - 08/18/08 12:51 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

If nothing else, it's a quite strong motivator for life :wink:
Imho, living by its fullest leaves no room for death-anxiety. Even so, thinking that, does the trick too...
If one has nothing more to get out of life, what should he worry about death ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8789322 - 08/18/08 01:40 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I don't have any thoughts or advice I am willing to share as far as the anxiety goes.  But I am sorry to hear you have it.  It takes a big person to admit weakness.

:thumbup:


--------------------

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8789402 - 08/18/08 02:17 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

One day I had an extraordinarily profound experience, one more "real" than I had ever had. I experienced the fact that some day I was going to die, And just before I died, two things would happen: One, I would regret my entire life; Two, I would want to live my life over again, and then I would die. -- Hubert Selby Jr.




For a blissful month and a half after first starting to use psychedelics, I was convinced that there had to be something deeper after death.  Then I snapped out of it and went through a long, dark nihilism of the soul until I mostly came to terms with the fact that I am going to die someday.

Dunno what to tell you, really.  I still have this anxiety myself.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibledblaney
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8789436 - 08/18/08 02:28 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I'm anxious too.

It can be difficult sometimes, to see, but thoughts are just thoughts, feelings are just feelings, and emotions are just emotions. Ever-changing.

Who was born? Who will die?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8789528 - 08/18/08 03:32 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Going on a babble:

Isn't it a matter of simply knowing that it's okay to die?  That every other living entity that has gone before us, has also died?  That I wasn't afraid to be born, so why should I be afraid to die?  It's okay to not exist. 

For me: I cannot change death; it's coming no matter what (and that intrigues me) but due to the inevitability of it, I can either accept that I will not exist one day and let the fear go and be at peace with existence, or I can get wound up about non-existence and let that interfere with my life...

The first option is what I aim for. 

Non-existence in your mind is only an illusion.  It's not what's now.  It doesn't exist for you yet.  It's a little funny... fantasizing about your non-existence, which doesn't even exist. 

/babble off. 



Yeah, I get anticipatory butterflies just like anyone about death; but I've also come to see it as a necessity for life; as natural as birth.  I am not worried about preserving my 'self.'  My personality/identity doesn't matter that much to me, or at least, that's how it feels this moment (things change all the time).  I like the thought of Nature devouring me.  I like the thought of being part of that Cycle.  Makes it easier to be alive, anyway, knowing that I have "my brief moment in the sun to flourish" and then imperceivable rest. 

I wonder how much of death-anxiety is culturally induced.

Because it really is okay to die!  (it actually doesn't matter)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MOTH]
    #8789679 - 08/18/08 05:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

it's pretty straight forward to me
this issue is fraught with anxiety.
you have addressed it directly for years - it is adequately addressed.
the big work
the enlightened work
the mastery yet to be mastered
is to walk from the battlefield, drop the armour, drop the sword, drop the valor, drop the chivalry, drop the fame and =glory and leave the field.
end the carnage
let peace reign.

this is not surrender to the issue (the issue is dry and over worked)
it is the issue itself being surrendered (transcended). life goes on.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: satyr]
    #8790440 - 08/18/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Gee thanks for the advice but I have had more high dose drug experiences then I can ever remember. I started in 1970 and continue to this day.

Have you found any evidence that you are not eternal?


Yes I find evidence that I am not eternal everywhere I look. Death comes to every living thing. This really is evidence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8790454 - 08/18/08 11:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Being and Non-Being as the primal opposites which are reconciled in a transcendent Godhead, above a triune God.

So... a belief system that relieves death anxiety. I already know about these.

is aroused by the loss of the spiritual center,


On thing I have finally come to grips with is the fact that if someone who is well known says something that doesn't make it true at all.
This assumes one ever had a spiritual center, this could be another belief to relieve death anxiety as there is no conclusive evidence I have found that we are in reality spiritual.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: fazdazzle]
    #8790492 - 08/18/08 11:15 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Good post. While worry about death may be moot, and I believe it is, that will not stop any onconscious process IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8790506 - 08/18/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
I don't have any thoughts or advice I am willing to share as far as the anxiety goes.  But I am sorry to hear you have it.  It takes a big person to admit weakness.

:thumbup:




Is this a weakness? Or is it natural to all whether conscious of it or not. I believe it is and I base that only on my observation of myself and all others I have known or know about.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: deCypher]
    #8790511 - 08/18/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Quote:

One day I had an extraordinarily profound experience, one more "real" than I had ever had. I experienced the fact that some day I was going to die, And just before I died, two things would happen: One, I would regret my entire life; Two, I would want to live my life over again, and then I would die. -- Hubert Selby Jr.




For a blissful month and a half after first starting to use psychedelics, I was convinced that there had to be something deeper after death.  Then I snapped out of it and went through a long, dark nihilism of the soul until I mostly came to terms with the fact that I am going to die someday.

Dunno what to tell you, really.  I still have this anxiety myself.




Well why wouldn't you? It seems at some point to be a survival mechanism.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MOTH]
    #8790514 - 08/18/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MOTH said:
Isn't it a matter of simply knowing that it's okay to die?  That every other living entity that has gone before us, has also died?  That I wasn't afraid to be born, so why should I be afraid to die?  It's okay to not exist. 

For me: I cannot change death; it's coming no matter what (and that intrigues me) but due to the inevitability of it, I can either accept that I will not exist one day and let the fear go and be at peace with existence, or I can get wound up about non-existence and let that interfere with my life...

The first option is what I aim for. 

Non-existence in your mind is only an illusion.  It's not what's now.  It doesn't exist for you yet.  It's a little funny... fantasizing about your non-existence, which doesn't even exist. 






:thumbup:

I don't get this death anxiety everyone talks about.  If I'm dead, there's nobody there to 'not be.' I can't cease to exist, because as soon as I die, there is no 'I' to not exist.  There is literally nothing to be afraid of.

Life anxiety makes sense to me, and IMO 'death anxiety' is just a form of it.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MOTH]
    #8790535 - 08/18/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I get anticipatory butterflies just like anyone about death; but I've also come to see it as a necessity for life; as natural as birth.  I am not worried about preserving my 'self.'  My personality/identity doesn't matter that much to me, or at least, that's how it feels this moment (things change all the time).  I like the thought of Nature devouring me.  I like the thought of being part of that Cycle.  Makes it easier to be alive, anyway, knowing that I have "my brief moment in the sun to flourish" and then imperceivable rest. 

I wonder how much of death-anxiety is culturally induced.



Good post. I feel all this too. I feel it at the conscious level but I still notice the anxiety at work below and around it. But as you said, we reduce the anxiety by understanding it and I believe by looking into it as often and as much as possible.

If most of our actions are in service of death anxiety then you will see that some actions are much more skillful than others and allow for a quality of life that is truly worthwhile. This is a big thing. How one deals with  their death anxiety. I think we can't look too deeply into this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: elbisivni]
    #8790548 - 08/18/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
I get an awful feeling in my chest when I think to myself that one day I will die and cease to exist for eternity.

At the same time, imagining anything happening without end devastates me.  But so does the thought of there being an end to eternity, because then there would be nothing forever.


I take some comfort in the fact that my body will decompose and provide nutrients to grass and maggots.

Sometimes when I'm really able to grasp it I feel alone and hopeless and I cry.  It was worse when I was a kid, before I was able to build up defenses in my mind.

Neither Heaven nor Hell could be an answer, only another problem.  There is no personal comfort in the reality of eternity imo.

Sleep forever without so much as a dream.

(We're on a road to nowhere | Here is where time is on our side)




WORD

Great and honest post, thanks for sharing it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8790549 - 08/18/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Any and all of our individual beliefs and perceptions color our personal view of reality.  We honestly don't know.  We can't claim to be certain of anything.  Seemingly solid objects are made up of mostly empty space.  Our senses lie to us.  This "reality" seems very much fake to me.  None of this is really real yet here we are.  It is much like David Bowman from the Space Odyssey sequel where he is in the apartment and remarking about how none of it was real at all.  Perhaps the physical body is to help us learn how to become real?

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: My death anxiety [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8790554 - 08/18/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Dying is easy, watching someone you love die isn't.

True confrontation with death does not take place in the mind.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8790583 - 08/18/08 11:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it's pretty straight forward to me
this issue is fraught with anxiety.
you have addressed it directly for years - it is adequately addressed.
the big work
the enlightened work
the mastery yet to be mastered
is to walk from the battlefield, drop the armour, drop the sword, drop the valor, drop the chivalry, drop the fame and =glory and leave the field.
end the carnage
let peace reign.

this is not surrender to the issue (the issue is dry and over worked)
it is the issue itself being surrendered (transcended). life goes on.




It is not yet adequately addressed in my case at least. And for others it may be the first time contemplating it.

Oh I say I surrender to it all the time. Yet I notice in all my actions this is not true. Don Juan put the concept of using death as a constant advisor as a first step on the path of a warrior. He never let it drop through all the books. Fear, the first enemy of a man of knowledge which is the end of the battle for almost everyone who aspires to go beyond it is all about death anxiety.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8790592 - 08/18/08 11:33 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)


Life anxiety makes sense to me, and IMO 'death anxiety' is just a form of it.


There is definately a connection IMO. Yet if you could live forever I believe most if not all of the life anxiety would disappear in the realization that we had forever to learn how to be fully alive.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Middleman]
    #8790600 - 08/18/08 11:35 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Dying is easy, watching someone you love die isn't.

True confrontation with death does not take place in the mind.




Dyin is easy? I don't notice this in our world.

Watching someone you love die would be a very potent reminder to the self that death is always the end.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8790612 - 08/18/08 11:36 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8790614 - 08/18/08 11:36 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I don't get this death anxiety everyone talks about.  If I'm dead, there's nobody there to 'not be.' I can't cease to exist, because as soon as I die, there is no 'I' to not exist.  There is literally nothing to be afraid of.





This is an intellectual reaction to the idea of being mortal.  Death anxiety is not intellectual.  We may be able to consider this issue on the "surface" of our consciousness, IOW with our new brain, and claim (truthfully, as far as we know) that we are not anxious.  However, it seems quite evident from the behaviors of humankind that our deepest motivations do not arise from our new brain, but from the more ancient R-brain and limbic system.

It is this ancient brain center which initiates death anxiety, leaving our somewhat clueless new brain to attempt to resolve the unresolvable.

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OfflineLion
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Middleman]
    #8790616 - 08/18/08 11:37 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Dying is easy, watching someone you love die isn't.

True confrontation with death does not take place in the mind.


I disagree.  All is mind.  Life and death are illusions and mind is the illusionist.  That's not to diminish their significance.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8790621 - 08/18/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

you have to get past don juan too
it's time


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8790642 - 08/18/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Who are you to tell me the time? Do you know me? Do you know all my strengths and weaknesses and all the motivating factors that brought me here? Do you know the truth?

This is poor advice IMO. We sould stick with things as long as we need to. My working here could take me places you never dreamed of.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Lion]
    #8790654 - 08/18/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Quote:

Middleman said:
Dying is easy, watching someone you love die isn't.

True confrontation with death does not take place in the mind.


I disagree.  All is mind.  Life and death are illusions and mind is the illusionist.  That's not to diminish their significance.




'All is mind' does not refer to the same 'mind' I was referring to.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8790661 - 08/18/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I certainly have it. In my life I have tried to find and face what is true. I certainly would like to believe that I'm somehow special and eternal and that I can go on until I find bliss and fulfillment in eternity.

However I have not found real evidence for it. As I have looked deeply at my motivations for my thoughts and feelings and beliefs they all lead back to the fact that I am afraid of not being.

All the beliefs I have adopted are in service of reasuring my insecurites that I am not a temporary event with no more importance than a thought that quickly passes and is no more.

Even my belief that I have no permenence but the energy of my being goes on is in service of reassuring myself that I am part of something enduring that is personal (I am part of everything) (see, I'm always saying "I"). I just can't get away from death anxiety.

I believe that I am going to go on this way until I find out one way or another. I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all. That creates anxiey whether I like it or not.





I would say this is going on within you to make you stop identifying with whats finite, your inner Self is tired with all these concepts, especially the concept "I am the body" Your beingness wants freedom from finite constructs to discover its infinite nature.

Id suggest you to keep facing this painful truth of death as it will clean your beingness of all this dross & leave the truth as it is...

:peace:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Chronic7]
    #8790667 - 08/18/08 11:54 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You could be right, how could I know at this point?

We are on the same page here brother as I have no intention on letting it go just yet.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8790669 - 08/18/08 11:54 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

I don't get this death anxiety everyone talks about.  If I'm dead, there's nobody there to 'not be.' I can't cease to exist, because as soon as I die, there is no 'I' to not exist.  There is literally nothing to be afraid of.





This is an intellectual reaction to the idea of being mortal.  Death anxiety is not intellectual.  We may be able to consider this issue on the "surface" of our consciousness, IOW with our new brain, and claim (truthfully, as far as we know) that we are not anxious.  However, it seems quite evident from the behaviors of humankind that our deepest motivations do not arise from our new brain, but from the more ancient R-brain and limbic system.

It is this ancient brain center which initiates death anxiety, leaving our somewhat clueless new brain to attempt to resolve the unresolvable.




Maybe it's not death anxiety; maybe just a natural will to survive that we humans fixate on and wonder about, due to having the brain capacity to do so. 

I don't feel consciously afraid of death. 

Unconsciously, I might be.  But if I am not aware of it, it seems more instinctual, more ingrained.  A way for Nature to preserve itself.  'Anxiety' seems to be just a label to describe an emotional reaction to a thought which is rooted in the survival instinct. 

No thought = no anxiety (in my experience)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8790683 - 08/18/08 11:58 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Life anxiety makes sense to me, and IMO 'death anxiety' is just a form of it.


There is definately a connection IMO. Yet if you could live forever I believe most if not all of the life anxiety would disappear in the realization that we had forever to learn how to be fully alive.




Ahhhh... and there's the real fear: not death, but an 'incomplete' life.

Much scarier.  And more familiar to me.

But still, that fear is just a thought, and that thought is just a part of life.  This fear and other useless thoughts occur when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8790701 - 08/18/08 12:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well an incomplete life is definately "another" fear.:lol: And the one that really most concerns us in this life as it's a fear we can actually do something about. Not to pacificy it but to remove it. It's also the best remedy for death anxiety I know of.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8790729 - 08/18/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

I don't get this death anxiety everyone talks about.  If I'm dead, there's nobody there to 'not be.' I can't cease to exist, because as soon as I die, there is no 'I' to not exist.  There is literally nothing to be afraid of.





This is an intellectual reaction to the idea of being mortal.  Death anxiety is not intellectual.  We may be able to consider this issue on the "surface" of our consciousness, IOW with our new brain, and claim (truthfully, as far as we know) that we are not anxious.  However, it seems quite evident from the behaviors of humankind that our deepest motivations do not arise from our new brain, but from the more ancient R-brain and limbic system.

It is this ancient brain center which initiates death anxiety, leaving our somewhat clueless new brain to attempt to resolve the unresolvable.




Maybe I don't know what others are referring to when they talk about death anxiety.  I was thinking of an intellectual fear, the kind of anxiety that might arise when you are sitting and reflecting on your life and where it's going, what might happen to you etc.  Other than acute fight-or-flight responses in moments of immediate danger, I don't experience anxiety relating to my mortality, unless it is so prevalent that I don't recognize it.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8790732 - 08/18/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You've made a stand on the side of Non-Being. One can choose Being as well. You identify with temporality and deny Eternity. You can affirm Eternity while accepting temporality (and death).
Eternal Life is not personal immortality, it is what happens when one withdraws inwardly from one's existence into one's Essence, which is Being. Temporality, as form, dissolves into Non-Being. The identification with temporality is automatic and unconscious. One must make a conscious effort to identify with Eternity. Huxley said that our consciousness is "amphibious" and can identify with spirit or matter. Identification with the former is withdrawal from the latter. This is every spiritual path. We awaken to the realization of Being Eternal, as the egoic center of consciousness transfers from the bodily vehicle to the Source and assumes the identity of the Source. This life will be a dream we awaken from. I hope and expect the ecstatic moment of realization - the coming face-to-face with the Clear Light of Unmitigated Reality; the Beatific Vision. If not, annihilation of consciousness won't hurt a bit. We taste that in Delta-wave sleep. We've all seen that movie thousands of times. Guilt? Fear of punishment? That is another story, but a possibility that I am confident that you have dismissed.

“And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.”  - Gen. 5:24
(They call this 'translation,' like a word. Enoch was 'translated' into God. Same for anyone, I expect).

The upside of our egoic-death is the realization that we have always been this Eternal Life, all along. The Buddhists say it, the Nag Hammadi Gnostic gospels say it. They all say it. Hey, with entropy in the space-time continuum you wouldn't want to be a 300 year old man if you could, would you? BTW, most octagenarians don't fear death, so stay healthy and do your own part to live long enough that death-anxiety takes a back seat. How many attempts did you make in the 70s to unify yourself into an ecstatic selfless Light? The Light is, and we are It! It's not always possible to see it, but we will always Be It! I'm already weary of being Mark, I still want to be my Self - our Self - THE SELF - "I AM."

I wish you peace Icelander - an this from someone who has wrestled with temperamental anxiety more than most.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8790751 - 08/18/08 12:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, death anxiety is not experienced directly, but rather indirectly.  Becker theorized that it was too awful for us to face head-on, so we translate into a variety of different types of thoughts.  If you're interested, Becker's "Denial of Death" is an incredible book.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8791031 - 08/18/08 01:29 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

OCD sufferers conjure their most difficult thoughts
and repeatedly suffer through remarkably simmilar thought loops and tense feelings as experienced during the last time they conjured the same triggering thoughts.

rather than explore alternate issues, these are the ones they will revisit nearly endlessly moaning at each turn.

in spite of the pain, or maybe because of it, the experience is valued like an art form, the degradation is exquisite, the demoralization unparalelled, only sophisticated people can recognize the superiority of the experience and the elegance of each twist and turn.

I have found that you can't argue or make sense directly with obsessive compulsive disorder, but you can ritualize it, or distract it until next time.
You have to take it seriously, it is as serious as anything ever gets. as serious as death.

it is very much like a tic or like turrets syndrome

could this be about a death tic.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8791743 - 08/18/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
But still, that fear is just a thought, and that thought is just a part of life.




:thumbup: The realization that this thought is impermanent and "it too will pass" is another great help and release.  Anxiety feels like a resistance in my ability to release some of the thoughts or emotions that are processing within my unconscious mind.  Bringing these processes into awareness in an art, when there is lack of creative energy there seems to be much less rewarding outcome.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8792880 - 08/18/08 09:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
I don't have any thoughts or advice I am willing to share as far as the anxiety goes.  But I am sorry to hear you have it.  It takes a big person to admit weakness.

:thumbup:




Is this a weakness? Or is it natural to all whether conscious of it or not. I believe it is and I base that only on my observation of myself and all others I have known or know about.




In the case of death anxiety I think you are correct.  However, many "macho" men and others think that admitting anxiety in general is a weakness, and that would include death anxiety.  It's like admitting you're frightened or nervous or a few other human emotions "strong" people are not supposed to have.  Whether a person is conscious of it/them or not.

As you have known others with similar anxieties, I have known others will no fear of death.  And they weren't the macho men type.  They were spiritual and looked forward to a connection we can only hypothesize.  Also many people look forward to death as a release from suffering.  Numerous suicide attempts and successes evidence this.  Of course it can be argued that they were anxious even though they sought release.  The problem is it cannot be argued successfully.  Unless you are that person, you cannot know.

Also realize that most people believe in some kind of spiritual realm.  Whether or not it is true is beside the point.  Atheists and agnostics are the anomalies.

So I've said my peace.  I wish you well and that you find release from your anxiety in whatever form it takes.  You are free to argue any and all points I have made while trying to offer you peace, but I am dismissing myself from this conversation.

:peace:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8793499 - 08/18/08 11:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Death is very very scary.
I want my mommy :hug:

Really and truly, when I think of death (actually all unknowns, but that's the biggest one), all I want to do is cuddle up in my mom's lap.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8794569 - 08/19/08 08:45 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You identify with temporality and deny Eternity.

I don't deny eternity but I can't truly get my head around it. My belief in my personal energy being eternal is just a thought.

We awaken to the realization of Being Eternal, as the egoic center of consciousness transfers from the bodily vehicle to the Source and assumes the identity of the Source. This life will be a dream we awaken from. I hope and expect the ecstatic moment of realization - the coming face-to-face with the Clear Light of Unmitigated Reality; the Beatific Vision. If not, annihilation of consciousness won't hurt a bit. 

The essence of religious belief.  I "hope" is the operative word here. If I do what the bible sez then I "hope" I won't go to hell and I will go to heaven. All good if that works for you. For me it hasn't stood the test of time and experience.

I do try to stay healthy and enjoy what I can. I do know as I age the anxiety is lessened. We do get tired of this as you say. Some of us anyway but that may be due to other factors then we believe. Some very old are still full of life and love and vibrant and willing to continue for as long as it goes.

I also wish you peace and everyone else for that matter. I'm exploring life and belief same as you. After that your guess is as good as mine. (maybe:lol:)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8794972 - 08/19/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What is interesting about this subject when it comes up, is the assumption that one will know they have died and they believe the will experience suffering the loss of them self from this plane.

That suggests to me, people must have some inherent subconscious knowledge, memory, understanding that their conscious awareness will remain after physical death.

Where else would such ideas come from? Think about it.

If one believed 100% that physical death was the end of consciousness, what would there be to fear or be anxious about?

For the person with 100% belief that conscious awareness dies with the body, you have only living to ever know and experience. You have eternal life because it is all you will ever know.

Think about that.

If even .0001% of one feels that just maybe, conscious awareness will remain, I think their fears and anxieties related to physical death, can be put to peace by finding ways to be at peace with life here. 

States of being that can bring inner peace-

Forgiveness of everything, everyone including the self.

Acceptance of everything, everyone, including the self.

Sounds simple enough, yet actual application to the core isn't always that simple. Sometimes, a HUGE and thick wall stands in the way and it is the sense of self that believes it is a separate, and an inferior or superior being from beingness itself.

Whoever said to work on getting comfortable with the idea of your Essenes of being, vs self identification that separates you from all else, is a key.

Consider classic fears of dying-

"Ohhhhhhhhh how will so and so or this place live and manage without me"- superiority complex.

"I never got to say I am sorry to so and so for what I did /said. I am such a horrible person to them" - Lack of self forgiveness and inferiority complex.

"I never got to show the world what I was really made of"- Inferiority complex.

"I will never get a chance to see this or that play out in the future"- Lack of acceptance.

"Its not fair that other people got to live a better life and I will die with nothing greater then what I got from it"- Separation complex. ( A solution to that one is to move into a place that says, the good of others is also my good because, we are one in essence.) That makes it easy to feel happy for the good of others and share in it through the essence of the one being.


For anyone dealing with death anxieties, isolate and examine specific fears. Look to see which virtue needs to be addressed. It can become a rather humorous exercise in self examination.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8794985 - 08/19/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It's not our "personal" energy that is eternal, eternity, even as a concept, is available to our minds at any time. It is THAT which always is. It is time that came into existence.

I used the word hope with reservation, but you latched onto it anyway! :grin: I was thinking about this interaction last night at 2:00 am during our tropical storm (they closed schools yesterday and today). I pulled a book written by a former professor which he titled The Structure of Awareness. It is dense, I've never read it through since he signed it for me in 1977. Anyway, he writes about theology and psychotherapy and he was breaking down our enmeshment in time in terms of dysfunction. He roots guilt in the past and anxiety in the future. True enough, and I'm plagued, as you are, by anxiety - death anxiety. I said that you probably dismissed punishment, but maybe I was wrong. I am attached to my childhood, but despite some regrets and sorrows for things I didn't do and for things I did do, I am NOT plagued by guilt.

Based not on belief or scripture, essentially, but by every high experiences which seem supported by all kinds of high literature from Yogas, mysticism, gnostic gospels, etc., I am intellectually convinced (after the fact of said experiences and writings by others), that we have to commit ourselves to being aware of Eternity in each moment if we are to annihilate our self-conscious awareness of finitude. Hey, I don't even like suspense movies, but I do not have to live in suspense if I'm really present. Has it not occurred to you on trips that death is little more than expiration of a breath that is not followed by an inspiration? That's where we get the euphemism 'expired' for death. It's like the Zen master who is asked what dying is like while on his death bed, and perceiving a sound he replies: "It is like a squirrel running across the roof." Absurd? No. One cannot say anything about Consciousnes qua Consciousness, only about objects IN Consciousness. Pure Consciousness, without content - the PCE (Pure Consciousness Event) - is bliss, ecstasy. I'm confident that you have had your share of glimpses.

I am convinced of the reality of psychedelic states in these matters. The rational mind is a psychic structure which dissolves, so it cannot grasp this. Remaining rational in the face of rational dissolution induces panic if one uses reason as one's frame of reference. Better to surrender to the Clear Light, like the protagonist in Huxley's book Island. Like Edwin Arnold's poem, 'The Light of Asia': "...the dewdrop slips into the shining sea." We spend our entire lives being the personal dewdrop, when we are in truth, the "shining sea." We WANT attachment to persons, pets, people, places, possessions. It is a survival instinct, then a social motive. All lower chakra, personality characteristics that must be transcended by adding detachment to our attachment. It's all gonna be taken from us in time anyway, so we must loosen our grip and not fight so hard to hold on. I for one do not want to leave this world the way I came into it - kicking and screaming!

Something else - the major illusion, which, when pierced allows for the ecstasy of the 'Clear Light' (or whatever you want to call Eternity): In that same book I was reading, professor Oden cited psychologist Carl Rogers who noted "that which seems most personal, turns out to be that which is most general." Even in my own counseling experience, many people struggle to express their most personal failure, or fear, or pain and guess what? I've heard it from lots of people! To each person, their pain seems personal, unique, secret. It's an illusion of the ego the 'ahamkara.' We might as well all become Jnana yogis and think/speak of ourselves in the third person as an exercise to remind us that that REAL perspective is NOT our own egoic-mind. The REAL perspective is from The Witness, sub specie aeternitatis - 'under the aspect of eternity.' Not just our pain, everything is both individual and universal, like snowflakes - all made of the same water molecules arranged differently by dust, atmospheric conditions, 'the stars,' whatever. When each flake melts it becomes a universal drop of water - one with all water, from any time or place or planet. We ARE water! We're like Odo in 'Deep Space Nine,' returning to his non-solid world of liquid cytoplasmic unity.

As I said in an earlier post. This 'assumption' is a carefully chosen one. It is my "controlled folly," a concept that changed me as soon as I read it some 30+ years ago. But, this assumption has made all the difference in my quality of life, complete with synchronicities and veritable answers to prayer that were so specific as to annihilate chance. These events are the proverbial 'manna from heaven' which sustains a continued path. Besides, what else is there? Only what Wilber calls "The Atman Project," surrogate forms of immortality: power, conquest, sexual conquests, production of progeny, empire building, wealth accumulation, pyramid building, Leona Helmsley mausoleum building, heinous acts against humanity to become famous at any cost, etc. All Atman Projects are failures. They are not 'controlled' follies, they are true follies. Even the Great Pyramid will turn to sand in 100,000 years. All this stuff is trapped in linear time. We want and need to be lifted above time, and we need to have glimpses of Eternity now, because glimpses are gnosis, and gnosis gives us 'faith' which can sustain us during non-gnosis moments, of which there are many more in life. I guess I'm not so blessed because the Good Book says: "Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.'" - John 20:29. I have seen the Light and thus believed. Gnosis preceded faith, yet paradoxically, faith was there too. I used to pray out of anxiety when I was a child and I was never taught to 'talk' to God. I was only taught a couple of Hebrew formulaic prayers. I also used to look into the sky and get a sense of 'Being' by looking at transparent immensity of the sky.

Anyway, thanks for your willingness to communicate on the level which you have in these posts!

-Mark[ostheGnostic]


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/19/08 10:35 AM)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8795047 - 08/19/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I also used to look into the sky and get a sense of 'Being' by looking at transparent immensity of the sky.




Yes, the "is-ness" of the sky has always inspired awe in me.  Many of my most-vivid childhood memories involve sky-gazing.  I've never assigned any "being" or "divinity" to this experience, though.  What about it indicates to you that there is Being?

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4 more questions [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8795064 - 08/19/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

does it matter if people agree about what they don't understand?

is it possible not to be anxious?

is it beneficial not to be anxious?

is this possible benefit an important part of who/what we can be?

might it be that this (death) anxiety is the fodder upon which religious gangs were historically nourished, swaggering through the beliefosphere
- bullying the uncommitted and slaughtering the others.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8795153 - 08/19/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

That's just it - not 'a' being, but 'Being' itself. The experiences that I remember, including one that was 'colored' by the 'set' (it was a Rosh Hashana trip), was that instead of the ordinary sense of being 'me,' alone in a field, I experienced quite powerfully the 'sense' of being an 'I' who was in the presence of a 'Thou,' of 'Another,' but that Other was experienced as though 'clothed' by the very sky. The sky was not God (any more than a burning bush was God), but the experience of Being is the experience of the "God above God" - the "Ground of Being" - that colorless, indefinable yet intuitively tangible PRESENCE. No attributes, just Presence. Instead of being the usual 'subject,' it was as though I was an 'object' of the sky's Awareness. It was not a visual thing, it was a powerful intuitive sense - very startlingly Real. I felt like I was being silently addressed by the very sky and the sky itself was a symbol for BEING - Eternal Being. Years later I would read how philosopher of religion Huston Smith, when attempting to grasp God as a child would evoke "An infinite sea of grey tapioca." :laugh:
When I was a child, the experiences were were mystical, but obviously not psychedelic-mystical.



Apparently, I am not alone in this experience. I love alchemical woodcuts. I feel like my closest friends are dead strangers who left journals from 400 years ago. :shrug:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8795215 - 08/19/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds trippy!  :smile:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #8795423 - 08/19/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I do know as I age the anxiety is lessened. We do get tired of this as you say.




As long as Blue Oyster Cult is still playing Don't Fear the Reaper to packed venues across Amerika my anxiety is postponed. 

All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
Seasons don't fear the reaper
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain..we can be like they are





That reply needs more Cow Bell.

&feature=related


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Re: 4 more questions [Re: Icelander]
    #8795523 - 08/19/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"The decision to make the present moment into your friend is the end of the ego. The ego can never be in alignment with the present moment, which is to say, aligned with life, since its very nature compels it to ignore, resist, or devalue the Now. Time is what the ego lives on. The stronger the ego, the more time takes over your life. Almost every thought you think is then concerned with past or future, and your sense of self depends on the past for your identity and on the future for its fulfillment. Fear, anxiety, expectation, regret, guilt, anger are the dysfunctions of the time-bound consciousness."  A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, pp. 201-202

Regret, guilt and anger can ONLY be attributed to the past. We cannot experience these affects about a not-yet-arrived future.
Fear, anxiety and expectation are directed towards the future by an egoic-mind grasping at a receding temporal horizon.

No, anxiety is NOT a positive thing. I can plan for the future, but to fear possibilities is a dysfunctional condition. As I said in Icelander's post, I am not troubled by guilt as many are. Sorrow and regret for things I have done or failed to do is not guilt. But I am plagued by anxiety, the mother of which is death anxiety. Divorce, death of others, disease, loss of employment, etc. are all losses and attenuated forms of final death. I will deal with them when they arrive. They are not under the control of my ego. It still is a matter of "Remember: BE HERE NOW."

I have experienced states of consciousness which were devoid of anxiety including death anxiety. At some very high moments I wished for death, that I might die in a state of ecstatic fearlessness. Recently, while in my hot tub, with only a half glass of wine, I gazed at the tree limbs above me against the sky and thought, "I could die in this place," however, I was not wishing to die at that moment, and so the acceptance was conditional, put off to the future and thus more denial of death. So, it was not the optimal state of 'be not afraid' - the Buddha in the gesture of fearlessness.

As to your last paragraph, I really have no idea what you're thinking. All human predators use their victim's fear against them as a psychological weapon.




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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8795534 - 08/19/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Sounds trippy!  :smile:




I agree, if "trippy" translates into 'mystical.'


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8795655 - 08/19/08 12:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mystical
  1.  Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.
  2. Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God: a mystical religion.
  3. Enigmatic; obscure: mystical theories about the securities market.
  4. Of or relating to mystic rites or practices.
  5. Unintelligible; cryptic.





Could be.  :shrug:  I would say, though, that the first 2 definitions would be difficult (if not impossible) to apply with any degree of certainty.  "Best guess" would be more honest than any claim of absolute mysticism.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8796998 - 08/19/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

How about Phenomenology, Transcendental Phenomenology to be specific (not Existential Phenomenology) instead of "best guess?" As a discipline, it stands above both philosophy and psychology in that it takes the stance that an observer is aware of and can articulate what appears in consciousness. Then one elaborates and determines whether there is sufficient description for any given phenomenon to be defined. I am being simplistic but Phenomenology is scientific in its rigor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology_(philosophy)

"Bracketing" phenomena, the Phenomenological Epoche, requires that we have complete trust in our reflective self-awareness. We establish what appears minus subjective interpretations initially, and only interpret after the fact. Check out the Wiki link. My dissertation in '83 was of the 'historical narrative' type (rather than a statistical study), and I when I tried to include an introductory chapter explaining the phenomenological method, my advisor made me cut out the explanation and 'just do it.'


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8797025 - 08/19/08 04:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

We establish what appears minus subjective interpretations initially, and only interpret after the fact.




Hmmm...I think it would be a very rare person who has the ability to do this...if any human is capable of it at all.  Our perception is colored and edited according to our beliefs about what is important, what is real, what it means, and so on.  What we choose to pay attention to in the first place reflects our bias, so how can we possibly establish anything "minus subjective interpretations"?

It is quite worthwhile to consider the contents of our experiences, and perhaps to compare these contents to the experiences of others in order to better notice the skew of perception.  However, it seems unlikely that we will arrive at the truth of the intangible through  experience--thus "best guess."

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8797179 - 08/19/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

you are right, Veritas
we don't do any mental establishing without full-on projection
(ahem, some people call that "interpretation")

you first have a moment of raw sensation, and after that, everything is moving bits around (timing/spatial wise) and other associations.
from association you get into matches and predictive attitude


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8797207 - 08/19/08 04:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
What is interesting about this subject when it comes up, is the assumption that one will know they have died and they believe the will experience suffering the loss of them self from this plane.

That suggests to me, people must have some inherent subconscious knowledge, memory, understanding that their conscious awareness will remain after physical death.



Or maybe it's denial?


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8797209 - 08/19/08 04:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, and all of that seems to occur below the level of our awareness, so it appears that we are taking in a "pure" stream of data from our environment.  IMO, there is no way for humans to directly experience reality, because our perception is always "based on a true story." 

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8797214 - 08/19/08 04:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What is interesting about this subject when it comes up, is the assumption that one will know they have died and they believe the will experience suffering the loss of them self from this plane.

That suggests to me, people must have some inherent subconscious knowledge, memory, understanding that their conscious awareness will remain after physical death.

Where else would such ideas come from? Think about it.


Death anxiety itself could create this idea in us. I have no belief in an afterlife that I know of and yet I have plenty of death anxiety.


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8797255 - 08/19/08 04:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Yes, and all of that seems to occur below the level of our awareness, so it appears that we are taking in a "pure" stream of data from our environment.  IMO, there is no way for humans to directly experience reality, because our perception is always "based on a true story." 




this seems to be the case.

and

If you're interested, Becker's "Denial of Death" is an incredible book. :thumbup: Best book on death I have found. If you don't think you have any death anxiety read this and then decide.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8797414 - 08/19/08 05:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Then you should be able to apply 100% logic to your 100% belief that all you are capable of being consciously aware of is yourself ALIVE in the physical. That is all you can logically ever know or experience.

If you truly have no belief in an after life, what you fear in " The sense of yourself gone form here" doesn't and can not, ever exist.

That would be like my fearing what it is like to breath the air on Planet Achoo, knowing I will never find myself on planet Achoo.

I understand people who believe in an after life having loads of amxiety about what it will be like.

For those that firmly believe, their conscious awareness will end with the the death of the body, I don't get it. All you will ever be able to experience is your being alive here in only this body.

What part of you will be able to experience the suffering of your non human existence when it happens? How will you know it happened?
How will you be able to give a shit about whats going on, with out you here, to be a part of it?

How do you answer those questions to yourself and still remain in anxiety about it?


The Luxury belief is yours, that, we never have to experience our not being here. It's perplexing to me how that can cause you anxiety. There is nothing to be anxious about with a belief like that. There is not even anything to work with to help ease it.

My best guess is, your subconscious memory, remembers things you don't. I would be curious to know what it is fretting about if I were you.

Orr, your hanging around here everyday reading beliefs of others about the after life, reincarnation, spirits, demons, ect, is messing with your head.

How do you feel when you take a break from this sort of subject matter and just spend a few weeks pouring yourself into physical activities you really enjoy?


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8797595 - 08/19/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

This may seem off-topic, but I just wanted to point out that there seem to be multiple intelligences at work in a living human being.
  My personal experience has been that I feel love more clearly for my lady when my sex drive is shut down.  Tripping on aya. brought that out.  That's not to say that sex plus f.b. DMT isn't interesting...  The body attempts to translate the love that comes from the consciousness into physical expression. The body has a somatic intelligence that can operate independently or in concert with the consciousness.



As far as I can tell this illusionary environment seems to  be designed to maximize a learning experience.  The body's fear of death pushes us to accomplish more in a given lifetime.  In not-identifying with the body our attention is drawn deeper to the mind.  Meditation eventually can begin to stop being a slave to our minds. Observe thoughts and feelings without judgment.  Don't attempt to push anything away.  Let those things be there and they will resolve themselves.  Awareness allows you to see that these things are not you.  It is the opposite of General Hospital soap opera.  I think the Taoists call that untying knots or what not.  As ego issues are ironed out individuals begin to see that "others" are in fact themselves.  It is easy to be kind to people when you don't see them as "other".  Then (I think) a species may develop telepathic communication.

BTW a few johrei sessions in the past have helped me enormously in progressing through this kind of stuff.

johreifoundation.org does long distance work.  There is no fee but if people find it helpful they accept any kind of donation.

I am not a johrei practitioner but I can do a few things.
I could send a little bit of light your way early tomorrow morning, but only with your permission.

I like being useful and I'm told that it works alright.

I'll check back later.

Peace friend.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8797758 - 08/19/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

In 1914, Evelyn Underhill wrote:

    "Mysticism is the art of union with Reality. The mystic is a person who has attained that union in greater or less degree; or who aims at and believes in such attainment."
- Practical Mysticism , p. 3

Of course, if you do not 'believe' that the perceptual and cognitive veils can part, then you probably have not had an experience so discontinuous with ordinary reality, which hit you with such metaphysical significance that you were left convinced of the immanence of eternity, then you probably have not experienced the mystical.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8797818 - 08/19/08 06:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe it's more of a singular intelligence pervading the universe... I'll start another thread now, so as to not go off topic.




~Monk

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: numonkei]
    #8798019 - 08/19/08 07:48 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Slot machines signify the evolution of homo sapiens into a new species. Entire galaxies at a time.

I don't take the the written word at face value but the Tao Te Ching has helped me significantly.

Part of passage 52:

Your body dies.
There is no danger.

True, Taoists are obsessive about longevity.
But I have to lend an ear to a group of folks that have a handle on conscious control of their body's endogenous DMT production...  That is just impressive no matter how you look at it.

(Also p. 52)
Seeing the small is called Brightness
(a reference to the pineal gland in operation??)
Maintaining the gentleness is called Strength
(gaining control of endogenous DMT production?)
Use this brightness to return to brightness
(possibly merging with ??? and transcending...)

My best slightly educated guess is that the body is just a bag of flesh that can produce useful raw materials that are useful to a individualized consciousness.

It has been hypothesized that endogenous DMT production brings the consciousness in and out of the body, as well as being a catalyst for evolution.

The Tao Te Ching also talks about going in and coming out as being the same...

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8798072 - 08/19/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, but that's one source. It's a singular viewpoint.

That is not congruent with entirely different expressed viewpoints in similar languages and time periods.

The DMT point is very nice, but catalyst for evolution? You're giving credit to something that happens to make US trip while neglecting that the rest of the stabilizing chemicals in our body to KEEP us from tripping so we live long enough to not be eaten by aggressive animals, or forget to fuck.

Don't credit the molecule, credit the system. The WHOLE system. And remember that there are animals who get similar physical effects from our 'Serotonin as we do from 'Dimethyltryptamine'. Subjectivity is dangerous, but crucial.



~Monk

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8798787 - 08/19/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

wouldnt living forever suck(i wouldnt like the thought of living for eternity) and if u werent born u would never even have asked this question so be thankful u were created in a way which can express itself in anyway possible...

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Diddyds]
    #8798801 - 08/19/08 10:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

BTW i have anxiety as well but I'm glad i did for i would have never experienced ego death, its quite an experience feeling like u are 1 with the world and u are the god u been looking for

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Diddyds]
    #8798809 - 08/19/08 10:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

its weird when i saw a sign saying "ignorance is bliss" i was like wtf does that mean...now i know and it truly is bliss lol

Edited by Diddyds (08/19/08 10:31 PM)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Diddyds]
    #8798849 - 08/19/08 10:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i think of the mind like clicking a link...u can access information quickly but u dont see whats going on to make it all possible

Edited by Diddyds (08/19/08 10:39 PM)

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Re: My death anxiety - morsels of mortals [Re: Icelander]
    #8799511 - 08/20/08 03:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Yes, and all of that seems to occur below the level of our awareness, so it appears that we are taking in a "pure" stream of data from our environment.  IMO, there is no way for humans to directly experience reality, because our perception is always "based on a true story." 




although this is a side track
I thought it important to mention
that this does not always happen outside of awareness,
and that awareness is not exactly level arranged.

if awareness (that utterly plastic light of mind thing) is more broadly directed towards mental contents and the stream of consciousness,
then you will notice the stuff I am talking about: evidence of sensation passing, memory, and the
body/mind efforts occurring to synch and respond to sensations arising and passing.

but back to the theme of this thread, being your boy friend's anxiety of death, i want to add that
the idea of fractals can be very inspirational.
for the sense of scale and equality
and what I mean by that is that
if you reach out at the larger meaning of death - at the big implications,
then the mind seems to get shaken or frozen,
but
if you stay with the more humbly sized issues,
each of which has the fractal essence of death within it,
you remain connected to your "issue", but are more easily able to address
your business as it arises.

I am pretty sure that the essence you are struggling with, icelander, is present in each thing,
and in each moment,
and it need not escalate to scales that are unpleasant for your mind to address at all times.

you can better condition your mind by more gently confronting the same fractal at more bite sized morsels,
and to tie back to what veritas is getting at, there are huge benefits from directing awareness towards mental contents and the stream.

(row row row your boat, gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily ho, life is but a dream)


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8800100 - 08/20/08 08:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

If you truly have no belief in an after life, what you fear in " The sense of yourself gone form here" doesn't and can not, ever exist.


Actually, It's the unconscious/conscious fear of loss of personality structure IMO more than any fear of afterlife. Being nothing is terrifying to the self IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety - morsels of mortals [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8800110 - 08/20/08 08:53 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I am pretty sure that the essence you are struggling with, icelander, is present in each thing,
and in each moment,
and it need not escalate to scales that are unpleasant for your mind to address at all times.

you can better condition your mind by more gently confronting the same fractal at more bite sized morsels,
and to tie back to what veritas is getting at, there are huge benefits from directing awareness towards mental contents and the stream.


Oh I agree. I can only do anything in bite sized chunks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8800127 - 08/20/08 08:55 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

its prob the fear of the unknown... death is scary but when u realize that we couldnt have lived any other way it seems amazing u had a chance to expirence it...if anything be happy for like i said u and everyone is their own god.... u just dont see it.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8800896 - 08/20/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If you truly have no belief in an after life, what you fear in " The sense of yourself gone form here" doesn't and can not, ever exist.


Actually, It's the unconscious/conscious fear of loss of personality structure IMO more than any fear of afterlife. Being nothing is terrifying to the self IMO.




I see.

I'm not of that belief at all, that we remain conscious, but dissolve into a state of non self awareness.

It's a subject I have been personally exploring for 25 years. Everything I have come to understand/experience leaves me, with no doubt that we definitely take our personality structure with us, and can keep it for as long as we want too.

The way I have seen it to work beyond the physical and here, is that we can control how much sense of individualized personality we want to experience, via raising or lowering our vibration, like condensing and expanding.

Based on what I know, we don't have to loose our personality structure. However, many souls choose to ditch a lot of it after their body dies so they can move into a lighter vibration. Some come very close to shifting their awareness into a disolved state and they prefer it.


Story time kiddies............ rip on me anyone for what I am about to share, I don't care. It fits here and I want to share this story.

About 12 years ago, at a time I was flying higher then a kite, I was playing around with channeling. My aunt had just died of cancer, so of course, I wanted to practice with her.

It was cool when she first came in. I saw her as I knew her as a young child 35 years ago, not looking like she did when she died. She was munching on carrot sticks , like she use to when she came to visit my mom after work, sitting in our kitchen.

She was in good humor, being her wise cracking self, which was neat, considering I had been on and off the phone with family members balling their eyes out over her loss.

The first contact we had, she said she was in some sort of holding pattern, doing on and off life reviews. She was laughing and joking around, saying, they told her she screwed up getting to involved with this certain guy. She said, " you know how perfectly I follow instructions and what a detailed planner I am and stickler for them." She was taking it in better humor over there then she would have here.

In chats days later, she started showing me a golden key. She said she wanted me to tell my mother to look for it in one of her dresser draws. ( I was far away from where they lived.)

I told my mom to look for it. A day or two later, I went to contact my aunt again and this time, she was showing me that it wasn't actually a key, but a piece of jewelry, showing me something that looked like a heart necklace. She said, when your mom finds it, tell her to put it under her pillow for me.

I quickly went to call my mom to let her know that it was a piece of jewelry put away in a dresser drawer she wanted her to find. My mom picked up the phone and when I told her she said, very softly and sort of spooked out,  "I know......... I was there this afternoon going through more of her stuff and......... I found it."

I asked how she knew it was jewelry and not a key. She said that she was going through one of the drawers and noticed a box she didn't catch before. She opened it and her charm bracelet from Arnie( douchebag) was in it. She said she became absolutely overwhelmed and rushed with chills when she picked it up and "just knew" that was what she wanted her to find and the experience freaked her out. My mom beleives in all of this stuff yet, she was really shooken up.

I told her to put it under her pillow.

Days later, I was talking with my mom, wondering what this was all about. She said, she was sleeping really lousy, waking up feeling like total crap and had to move that bracelet out from under her pillow and over to her dresser top.

I felt bad and went back to contact my aunt to ask her why she would ask me to do something that would make my mom feel like crap. I was sort of miffed and got scared that I was being tricked by something evil:lol:.

It took weeks for me to make contact again and I when I did, she seemed VERY DIFFERENT, just wow, with added light punch and serene confidence. She seemed HUGE, as if she were 100 feet tall and in a state of ethereal awesomeness.

I asked what was up with my mom feeling like crap for days with that thing under her pillow. She said, " Because I got too emotionally caught up with Arnie and because of how my anguish over his marrying that other woman after our dating for 20 years, weighing heavy on me, I wasn't able to move up and on to the vibration I was at before I incarnated as Bess.

She said, we have to release our junk from here, either before we die or through something here afterward, usually another incarnation, before we can move into lighter planes and end the earth plane cycle.


Apparently, she is some energy master hot shot who figured out a way to not have to reincarnate to release the junk she brought with her. She was done with her cycles here long ago and came back just to help my mom and her other sister out with their families, while they worked on stuff they wanted to here. She was suppose to check out when the oldest of her nieces/nephews turned 18 and not get to involved otherwise. She did with this guy Arnie and got stuck here longer, and that was what she was  sort of scolding herself for when she realized that during her review. I learned more about what her pre-life plan was from my dead grandmother though.

Anyway, my aunt said, she made an agreement with my mom in dream time, for my mom to release her emotional baggage for her. She said the jewelry from Arnie was needed to act as a conduit for the energy transfer into my mom here.

:shrug:


That was an eye opener. Was interesting and sort of made sense and explained why my mom felt like shit for several days.

My aunt buzzed out of my range after that and had become hard to contact. I guess she doesn't like coming into this lowly vibration to chat with me anymore. :lol:



What was funny to me when I went to contact their parents, my grandparents, they were in what she described as a waiting plane, where they hang out waiting to greet other loved ones when they pass. They were going to stay at that vibration until their two other daughters crossed over.

My grandmother was just watching the family with her personality completely in tact, still holding her Rosary even.  My grandfather, was hosting Bar B Ques  for the gang in waiting. :tongue: He was having to much fun being in his Life of the Party zone to come say Hi to me, even though he had been hosting that thing for decades in our time. ( So much for floating around with wings and robes playing harps. )Some of them are partying up there.

These contacts were all very real to me, and the jewelry bit was my confirmation.

What I learned from that experience ( there are many others I've had) relates in that, as far as I have learned we can keep our personalities in tact for as long as we want to. It seems the only reason they have to do that, is if they want their loved ones to recognize them when they cross over. Otherwise, it seems souls are happy to shed their baggage and clothing from the physical incarnation they just left.

Like how different my aunt appeared to me, after she used my mom to shed her human junk.

I realize that no one has any reason to take my word for this. Since no one really knows for sure, we can control our folly like Markos said. For someone like Ice, why not entertain, that how I have learned it to go down, is how it does or can.



Ice, I wish I could take the confidence I have in this understanding and transfer it to you, to make your anxiety go away. :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: My death anxiety - morsels of mortals [Re: Icelander]
    #8800918 - 08/20/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Oh I agree. I can only do anything in bite sized chunks.




Have you tried the new super-grip Polydent? :rimshot:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8800930 - 08/20/08 12:49 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Actually, It's the unconscious/conscious fear of loss of personality structure IMO more than any fear of afterlife. Being nothing is terrifying to the self IMO.




your personality as it appears: _____(what was i thinking)______________(what is she thinking)__________(where)___(when)_________(uh...)_____

your personality as it is:  icelander picks his nose (what was i thinking) icelander walks  (i fear..., i am inadequate, wow, i'm happy; veritas, where's the tp?) icelander busts someone's chops in P&S (ha hah HAH) 

one possibility is to change your personality to encompass the vision of the hacked up self as it is, then work from there

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8800938 - 08/20/08 12:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
you first have a moment of raw sensation, and after that, everything is moving bits around (timing/spatial wise) and other associations.
from association you get into matches and predictive attitude




raw sensation, where's that fit in?

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8800984 - 08/20/08 01:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
you first have a moment of raw sensation, and after that, everything is moving bits around (timing/spatial wise) and other associations.
from association you get into matches and predictive attitude




raw sensation, where's that fit in?




When nothing comes between you and your Calvin Jeans.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8801699 - 08/20/08 04:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Everything I have come to understand/experience leaves me, with no doubt that we definitely take our personality structure with us, and can keep it for as long as we want too.

No doubt huh. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8801744 - 08/20/08 04:30 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Our personality structure (much like Hal's death scene in 2001) collapses when memory and processing degrades due to injury or entropy (aging).

However, when you completely deconstruct Hal (or Jiggy or Ice) they mysteriously reappear whole in another realm.

The end. :fairy:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8801802 - 08/20/08 04:46 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lakefingers said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
you first have a moment of raw sensation, and after that, everything is moving bits around (timing/spatial wise) and other associations.
from association you get into matches and predictive attitude




raw sensation, where's that fit in?



this is reality
the closest you ever really get
everything else is conceptual
reaw sensation gets fixed into memory with what occurs together at the same moment, and raw sensation triggers recall so that what you previously got pushed into memory can be evoked.
this is
the stream of consciousness
so raw sensation refers to what is in mind prior to associations.

glad you asked,
it's about living you know,
so we went off topic again.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8802129 - 08/20/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Our personality structure (much like Hal's death scene in 2001) collapses when memory and processing degrades due to injury or entropy (aging).

However, when you completely deconstruct Hal (or Jiggy or Ice) they mysteriously reappear whole in another realm.

The end. :fairy:




oh:cool: So Jiggy's right?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8802181 - 08/20/08 06:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

About dolphins. :yesnod:



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Re: My death anxiety [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8802292 - 08/20/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Our personality structure (much like Hal's death scene in 2001) collapses when memory and processing degrades due to injury or entropy (aging).

However, when you completely deconstruct Hal (or Jiggy or Ice) they mysteriously reappear whole in another realm.

The end. :fairy:




Damn Right. Hope I don't go before you or I will haunt your ass for fun! :evil:


Yes Ice, I have no doubt our personalities initially stay in tact. Maybe tommorow I will tell you the story about the drunken sailor who got stuck because of the addiction he took with him.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8802300 - 08/20/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I would rather hear of your experiences with inter-species sex.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8802343 - 08/20/08 07:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I would rather hear of your experiences with inter-species sex.




Don't have any to share. :shrug:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8802354 - 08/20/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Not even aliens or interdimensional creatures?

And I used to think of you as adventuresome. :mad2:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8802418 - 08/20/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Not even aliens or interdimensional creatures?

And I used to think of you as adventuresome. :mad2:




Think of me as more of a homebody that plays it safe, likes to garden and you'll be somewhere closer to my realm. :smirk:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee, isn't Bubble Bursting FUN!!! :awesome:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8802424 - 08/20/08 07:16 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I know you are happily married. Just being silly. (for a change)


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8802465 - 08/20/08 07:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yes Ice, I have no doubt our personalities initially stay in tact.

But it's based on no real evidence besides your personal unconscious death anxiety right?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8802626 - 08/20/08 07:58 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yes Ice, I have no doubt our personalities initially stay in tact.

But it's based on no real evidence besides your personal unconscious death anxiety right?




If it makes you feel better to beleive that everyone is also suffering from death anxiety then ..

You do read posts here. You must realize that some of us can hardly tolerate these heavy, limited, aging bodies and planet full of suffering nonsense at times, and are not very attached to either. Some of us are experiencing the opposite of you, - staying in the body on planet earth anxiety.

This is the scary place. :lol:

The beleif that when the body dies, we go to nothing is the easy one. If I had better evidence for that, I think I would feel a huge sigh of relief. The idea of eternal life to me is exhausting. I get fucken tired, don't you?

If that is how it is, all you can ever experience and be aware of is yourself alive here. There is nothing to fear with that set up and all the more reason to make the most of this and not be sitting around afraid of crap.


How much self examination have you done with your death anxiety and what have you come up with so far?

Do you even truly want to be relieved of this anxiety?

Ask yourself how it is serving you to have it?

You'll get your answers and solutions with that question.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8804461 - 08/21/08 08:18 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Read my posts in this thread and all the questions you asked I have already answered.

You can be the only one without death anxiety Jiggy.

I'm afraid that (at least from my perspective) you do not understand my reference to unconscious death anxiety which has been explained especially well by Veritas, but if it makes you feel better to believe you don't got it...;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8804603 - 08/21/08 09:06 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I don't have unconscious death anxiety either.

Mine is subconscious, barely. :lol:

Your posts in this thread were exceptional, imo.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8805270 - 08/21/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Ice,

There is a flip side to your coin, as with everything. Why act as if anxiety related to loss of ego structure is an absolute. Everything has an opposite and whatever is in between. Like the person in the Health forum who is looking at offing themselves as a very attractive option right now.

It is a fact that some people are all too willing to loose it, earlier then they have too. Not everyone is attached to their personage or this place.

I think the majority have anxieties about the experiences their personage brings them. For some, having the personality they do is the cause of their anxieties and they feel trapped by it.

Then you have those looking to escape or alter their personage through drugs and alcohol or acting.

Maybe exploring the mindset and feelings of the opposite experience and the layers in between might help bring you back to a place of balance with it all that will ease the anxiety.

Though I feel very comfortable with what death will be like once it happens, I do experience anxiety related to some living experiences at times. I can say I experience anxiety related to what might bring on my death, especially drowning for some reason- anything related to suffocation. But once the brain shuts down, I think it's going to be really cool and a relief of sorts.

I have anxiety about how my daughter, and my mom, if I go before her, would handle my death. I can't stand those thoughts.

I would be as bold as to say that everyone has dealt with anxiety in some form for some reason, to varying degrees and durations.

To say that everyone lives with chronic unconscious loss of ego structure anxiety would need some proof for me to believe it.

Not everyones personage is their best friend or greatest gift here. Think of those who have to struggle to even get a personality to be noticed and paid attention too. Think of those who struggle to have to Tone theirs the fuck down to keep from getting into trouble or from being in overwhelming high demand.

Look on your upside ice. You must love and enjoy the freaking shit out of yourself to be in such anxiety over loosing it. You have something some others want and go to therapy to get and you are treating it like dog doo doo to have.

Does this make you laugh at yourself-

" Ooooh my self love and appreciation is bringing me so much anxiety. Whoa is me"




You know what might help you out?

Make a handful of anonymous donations to some charities.

Have some thoughtful Anonymous discussions in the Anonymous discussion forum, where you are helping others out.

Go pick up some trash in the park and throw it away when no body is watching you do it.

Regularly engage in acts of experiencing yourself being of value in existence, where you are getting ZERO personal recognition for it.

That is a way for you to experience what you are anxious about NOW, and face what it is like Now. You can learn for yourself, it won't be so bad after all, to be effectively existing, without yourself.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8805294 - 08/21/08 11:36 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I think you are misunderstanding this concept, Jiggy.  Here's a bit of commentary on Becker's death anxiety hypothesis:

Quote:

Becker's existential view turned death anxiety theory on its head. Not only is death anxiety real, but it is people's most profound source of concern. This anxiety is so intense that it generates many if not all of the specific fears and phobias people experience in everyday life. Fears of being alone or in a confined space, for example, are fears whose connections with death anxiety are relatively easy to trace, but so are the needs for bright lights and noise. It is more comfortable, more in keeping with one's self-image, to transform the underlying anxiety into a variety of smaller aversions.

According to Becker, much of people's daily behavior consists of attempts to deny death and thereby keep their basic anxiety under control. People would have a difficult time controlling their anxiety, though, if alarming realities continued to intrude and if they were exposed to brutal reminders of their vulnerability. Becker also suggested that this is where society plays its role. No function of society is more crucial than its strengthening of individual defenses against death anxiety. Becker's analysis of society convinced him that many beliefs and practices are in the service of death denial, that is, reducing the experience of anxiety. Funeral homes with their flowers and homilies, and the medical system with its evasions, are only among the more obvious societal elements that join with individuals to maintain the fiction that there is nothing to fear.

Ritualistic behavior on the part of both individuals and social institutions generally has the underlying purpose of channeling and finding employment for what otherwise would surface as disorganizing death anxiety. Schizophrenics suffer as they do because their fragile defenses fail to protect them against the terror of annihilation. "Normal" people in a "normal" society function more competently in everyday life because they have succeeded at least temporarily in denying death.



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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8805642 - 08/21/08 12:59 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It's not that I don't understand what is being discussed here.

What is really starting to amuse me is the idea that everyone suffers from it, lives to be in denial of it, or that annihilation is something to fear.

Look at how many here can not wait for their next ego death trip. They say they loved that state of being when it was reached.

Who says it is something to fear?

Who?

Who?

I asked that because you and Ice , usually pose yourself as the rational, logical, I need evidence types.

Whoever it is that says it's something to fear has what evidence? What control does this authorityy figure you both give credit too, have over how you will choose to emotionally respond to any event?

Who determines what is scary for all the rest of us.

Like when I got off this 90 degree drop coaster a few week ends ago and some gals waiting at the exit said, " How do you all do that? Your all fucking crazy." Looking at it terrified them.

For some others, looking at it gave them a thrill, riding it was awesome and very enjoyable. We stayed on for two rides in a row.

Since when is what is scary universal?

Look at those who love to run out of airplanes flying at 1000 feet.

Look at Big Wave surfers. I have told you all that I have a fear of drowning-the part where you want air and can't get it. Dying by a quick bullet to the head doesn't seem to phase me because there is no pre death suffering. Anyway, a friend of mine's leesh got caught up in a buoy line about 20 feet under. He went unconscious and would have died, had a friend not pulled him up and gave him mouth to mouth.

He said it was really peaceful. He continues to surf, not seeming to give a care in the world if it happens again. :shrug: I truly believe that for him, it's no thing to fret.

I get anxious when I am out in big surf. Some conditions I flat out avoid being out in, or would not go out in that he would. We are all different when it comes to what makes  a person anxious related to dying.

My running around saying that he is in denial, in my eyes, would be a lame attempt, to make my anxiety about drowning better validated.

There is zero evidence out there to prove that the  death of oneself is something to be feared.

Everyone who has had an NDE says, they don't fear it anymore if they did. They say it was pretty cool. People who have been pronounced clinically dead on the table have the closest we can get to knowing what's it like. They say, it is nothing to be feared. I'll take their word over it vs someone who has never come close.

We are all going to die. We all know that. We all know our time here is limited. Who is in denial about that?

I do not know of a single person who believes they will not be dust one day. To say people act in denial of it is silly. Where is the virtue in forcing people to face a fear, in something they have no control over anyway? Again, masochistic.

For all I know, maybe Ice is a closet, self torturing loving masochist. Like he said to me in another thread, to each his own.

That would mean, he was hoping for replies like this instead.

Ice man, your death is going to suck soooooooo hard. You are going to suffer excruciating anguish being a big fat invisible nobody nothing. Your going to be forced to remain conscious and watch everyone here getting recognized for all that is great and wonderful about them, while you are trapped for eternity being an insignificant puke eating fly on the wall. You better fear being a maggot because it's going to be the most horrifying thing you will ever experience and there is no way out. You will be forced to wander the earth, reaching and calling out to others and no one will be able to see or hear you. Your loneliness will be unbearable, and because you are already dead to the world, there will be no escaping it. You are sooo right to be anxious about what's coming to take you away.
It will be dark and cold and it's coming for you.

There, is that a better more realistic and honest reply? :awesome:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8805694 - 08/21/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said: Look at how many here can not wait for their next ego death trip. They say they loved that state of being when it was reached.

Who says it is something to fear?




They don't fear their next ego death because they're well aware that they'll come back down to consensus reality and life afterwards.  If you were given a pill that would psychedelically kill your ego permanently, I doubt you would jump at the chance.

Not only that, but ego death != permanent death.  The best comparison I'd draw would be to going into deep sleep, where you're truly unconscious.  I'll admit that the state of nonbeing isn't frightening, because you're not there to experience it in the first place.  But what is frightening is the prospect of never waking back up again and getting more out of life.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8805759 - 08/21/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

this is reality
the closest you ever really get
everything else is conceptual
reaw sensation gets fixed into memory with what occurs together at the same moment, and raw sensation triggers recall so that what you previously got pushed into memory can be evoked.
this is
the stream of consciousness
so raw sensation refers to what is in mind prior to associations.

glad you asked,
it's about living you know,
so we went off topic again.




so in other words it's not raw.
we don't pull the buffalo heart out and eat it warm,
we buy it from the butcher and bring it home, cook it and consume as if we had a choice but the whole act was an invocation of some programming.

my sympathetic and autonomic nervous systems bracket my raw sensations.

i think it's important to mention that i wasn't even presuming raw sensation would be located in the brain or mind
the rest of my organs are aware too
my hands and nose are quite ganglionic as i type this

death anxiety sits in the cigarette fingers of a close friend of mine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: deCypher]
    #8806002 - 08/21/08 02:09 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said: Look at how many here can not wait for their next ego death trip. They say they loved that state of being when it was reached.

Who says it is something to fear?




They don't fear their next ego death because they're well aware that they'll come back down to consensus reality and life afterwards.  If you were given a pill that would psychedelically kill your ego permanently, I doubt you would jump at the chance.

Not only that, but ego death != permanent death.  The best comparison I'd draw would be to going into deep sleep, where you're truly unconscious.  I'll admit that the state of nonbeing isn't frightening, because you're not there to experience it in the first place.  But what is frightening is the prospect of never waking back up again and getting more out of life.




I will make this point again. And again it's my considered opinion based on the evidence I have found for myself and in observation of others for 55 years. Those who claim that they have no death anxiety have the most of it. Real death is so terrifying in all it's ramifications that they cannot/willnot look into it at all. They bury it deeply but if you know them and can observe them they will surely show it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (08/21/08 02:12 PM)

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8806034 - 08/21/08 02:16 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

And again it's my considered opinion based on the evidence I have found for myself and in observation of others for 55 years. Those who claim that they have no death anxiety have the most of it.




You were observing death anxiety in others as an infant and a toddler? Methinks you exaggerate...


--------------------

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8806044 - 08/21/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Well actually I'm 95. Don't tell Veritas.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8806063 - 08/21/08 02:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said: Those who claim that they have no death anxiety have the most of it. Real death is so terrifying in all it's ramifications that they cannot/willnot look into it at all. They bury it deeply but if you know them and can observe them they will surely show it. 




I guess that's a possibility, but what's far more likely IMO is that they've just never considered their own mortality.  Your typical person almost never stops to contemplate the fact that they're going to die, at least not until either old age overtakes them or something overly traumatic happens to them or a loved one.  Different personalities might also contribute to varying levels of death anxiety, too--I would predict introverts would have higher rates of death anxieties as they spend more time in inwards contemplations, whereas extroverts are too busy socializing and having fun to worry about such far-off things as death.

And besides, the average teenager thinks of themselves as invincible anyway.  No death anxiety to speak of. :tongue:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: deCypher]
    #8806096 - 08/21/08 02:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I agree that death anxiety is a matter of degree from person to person.

And the fact that a teen ager feels they are invincible is a good example of repressed death anxiety IMO. They are of course lying to themselves so they won't have to face their mortality.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8806137 - 08/21/08 02:37 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said: And the fact that a teen ager feels they are invincible is a good example of repressed death anxiety IMO. They are of course lying to themselves so they won't have to face their mortality.




See, this is where I differ.  Ask a teenager what was going through his mind after he performs a twenty foot jump on a skateboard onto concrete, and he'll probably tell you something involving the rad adrenaline, mad skills, and/or winning the prowess of any onlooking chicks--and a not a shred of worry about maiming his body, fracturing his skull, or any other concerns that would trouble a more philosophically inclined person.  Far from being repressed, I'd say the death anxiety is nonexistent in his case.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8806150 - 08/21/08 02:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Real death is so terrifying in all it's ramifications 




It is terrifying bcos we have been genetically programed to be terrified by death, not because of any existencial issue.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8806510 - 08/21/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Real death is so terrifying in all it's ramifications that they cannot/will not look into it at all.




Why are you exaggerating so much? I am one who has said I have grown comfortable with facing my mortality, and I have been discussing the subject when it comes up in here for the last several years on and off. I had a bad suicidal phase in my teen years. I wanted to die and wasn't sure, why I felt that way, when others didn't. So, I went and I got a ton of books to better understand why I felt the way I did.

Death has been a close companion of mine more then you know. I have to work hard to appreciate my life and what I have. I have a very natural depressed disposition believe it or not. I have a history of engaging in reckless activities that could've kill me. I have flirted with it a lot and liked to face it standing on the edge. A lot of that behavior toned down, after I had my daughter.

And just the other week in the car, my husbands daughter and I were discussing how "weird" it is that we won't be here for ever. To us it was weird, not anxiety producing. I started the conversation, while we were talking about gas prices, how silly it is we are still using gas, and that I was bumbed out, realizing I will probably never get to drive a flying car in this life. As a kid, I thought for sure we would have them by now.

Do I think the thought of not being here forever is weird? Yes. Do I sometimes get bumbed/sad thinking about what cool stuff in the future I won't get to experience while I am here now, or knowing I will miss out on the later part of my daughters life? Yes

I remember my heaviest time facing it was when I was studying Buddhism for the first time about 15 years ago and was reading from one school of it about how we return to nothing. I dwelled on that one for a few months. I remember it being a very dark consideration, not anxiety producing so much as just dark, empty feeling, sort of like, all of this for nothing? What a joke. ha ha 

Why do you assume some people haven't looked at it, a lot, and that they have not come to terms with it and are relatively accepting of it and it's not something that makes them anxious?

I think the difference between you and what I am referring to are those who have faced it, come to terms with it and those who have not. You are telling us that you haven't come to terms with it yet. Understandable. Trying to figure out how to help you here with that.

If you are telling us that it is impossible to comes to terms with it then, I call BS. Suiciders and people who refuse life saving medical treatment alone prove that your hyper exaggeration is BS.

My husbands mom, last year, refused dialysis and went home to die of kidney failure. It took about 3 1/2 months. She came to terms with her death and she wasn't frightened. She was probably the most at peace my husband had ever seen her throughout his life.

Dammit, my cowbell stick broke.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #8806585 - 08/21/08 04:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

For more information, I recommend the documentary about Becker's work:

http://www.flightfromdeath.com/synopsis.htm

It's fascinating to watch, and narrated by Gabriel Byrne (YUMMY!).

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8807924 - 08/21/08 08:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You can be the only one without death anxiety Jiggy.




No no no, she is not the only one.....!!!    :nono:

:tongue:



Quote:

Icelander said:
Those who claim that they have no death anxiety have the most of it.
Real death is so terrifying in all it's ramifications that they cannot/willnot look into it at all.
They bury it deeply but if you know them and can observe them they will surely show it. 




I just don't understand the assertions that you make here....
Because I am unaware of any anxiety I unconsciously hide from myself means that I have the most of it....?  :confused:
I have no reason to lie about any anxiety I might have, nor hide or bury my feelings about it - it isn't a contest....
I love to find the root causes of my feelings, it helps me to understand....

I honestly don't get this....
I know exactly what the ramifications are to my physical corpse after death,
and unsure of what happens with the "energy" or "life-force" of my being (if there even is any) after death,
and know that my COMPLETE end on this plane of existence is inevitable....
I enjoy talking with people about death, but usually the people I try to talk with about it IRL shy away, or change the subject....

In what ways and what actions does one observe of others that "show it"....?
There are people that admittedly have conscious anxiety about death, but I don't think that is what you are talking about....
I assume you are speaking of actions that show an unconscious fear of death thru their actions....
So, I ask....    What does one look for.....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #8807931 - 08/21/08 08:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I will make this point again. And again it's my considered opinion based on the evidence I have found for myself and in observation of others for 55 years. 




Damn, that's old.  No wonder.

The clock is ticking.

tick tick tick TICK! TICK!



An interesting thing about Einstein is that he seemed to have no anxiety about time.  He worked and his work continued apace until death claimed him.  I'm not saying he didn't have anxiety about it.  Somehow, it never showed.  At least that is what those who knew him claimed.

Maybe he was on decafe.  :shrug:  :lol:


--------------------

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Veritas]
    #8807977 - 08/21/08 08:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
For more information, I recommend the documentary about Becker's work:
.
http://www.flightfromdeath.com/synopsis.htm
.
It's fascinating to watch, and narrated by Gabriel Byrne (YUMMY!).




I got this DVD because of your recommendation (thank you! :smile: ), and it was very interesting, but I found myself not agreeing with parts of it....
I want to go take all of those weird tests myself....!
The hippie guy that wore the tie die shirts was my favorite of that program, and would love to hear more from him....
He had such a poetic and colorful way of expressing thoughts, it was an absolute delight to listen to him speak....    :thumbup:

I will prolly~ watch it again sometime soon....  :smile:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: deCypher]
    #8809233 - 08/22/08 01:17 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:

See, this is where I differ.  Ask a teenager what was going through his mind after he performs a twenty foot jump on a skateboard onto concrete, and he'll probably tell you something involving the rad adrenaline, mad skills, and/or winning the prowess of any onlooking chicks--and a not a shred of worry about maiming his body, fracturing his skull, or any other concerns that would trouble a more philosophically inclined person.  Far from being repressed, I'd say the death anxiety is nonexistent in his case.




death drive, not life drive--do anything you want to me and i'll survive

Edited by Lakefingers (08/22/08 02:03 AM)

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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8809286 - 08/22/08 01:40 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Death I thought myself so


There went an old husbandman
and sang upon the tilling soil.
He bore a seed basket in his hand
and strewed between his words,
for life's beginning and life's end
their new seed-harvests out.
He went from sunrise
to sunrise.
It was the last day's morning.
I stood like a hare's young
when he came.
How fearful I was before
his lovely song!
Then he took me up and put me in his basket
and when I dosed off he began to go.
Death I thought myself so.


- Bo Setterlind

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8809635 - 08/22/08 05:49 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i have heard christians that make everything relate to christ god and bible.

it gets tiring hearing the same song over and over.
some parts of the song have grains of truth embedded, but it is so tedious
and parts of it are so outrageous.

one begins to yearn for rapture just to hear them shut up.

then of course there is KURTZ in heart of darkness who appeals to the greatest fear imagineable, a touchstone against not feeling deeply enough.

he is relentless.

The HORROR!!


maybe this link works
http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/Movies/Movies_all/53954/Apocalypse+Now.html?aid=120444&part=1
maybe it doesn't
I will try it later.

the truth is, a person can invest their life in horror, or not.
from any vantage point, a different person who is not so invested will seem to be less prepared.
it may just be a point of view.
or obsession.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8809649 - 08/22/08 06:03 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I am a Little Bunny



I am a little bunny.
Eyes on the sides of my head.
I see to the left and right,
And soon I will be dead.

I am a little bunny,
These are my very long ears.
They help me hear many sounds,
But I can't hide from my fears.

I am a little bunny,
My strong legs are for jumping.
I have a strong sex drive,
I'm really into buttseks humping.



-Senor Hongos


--------------------

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: deCypher]
    #8811420 - 08/22/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Cypher said:
Quote:

Icelander said: And the fact that a teen ager feels they are invincible is a good example of repressed death anxiety IMO. They are of course lying to themselves so they won't have to face their mortality.




See, this is where I differ.  Ask a teenager what was going through his mind after he performs a twenty foot jump on a skateboard onto concrete, and he'll probably tell you something involving the rad adrenaline, mad skills, and/or winning the prowess of any onlooking chicks--and a not a shred of worry about maiming his body, fracturing his skull, or any other concerns that would trouble a more philosophically inclined person.  Far from being repressed, I'd say the death anxiety is nonexistent in his case.




Other things might just make him anxious though. This is usually the case with fear. We each have our own individual ones.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8814308 - 08/23/08 03:23 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It's important to note death anxiety/angst is not fear.
Fear you can pinpoint,
angst points to the unknown.

As you've probably noticed I'm not so bothered by the Christians,
they're quite exotic for me, considering where I live,
so mayhap I have a wee more romantic distance.

But yes, it's the same choir,
the poem is somewhat banal, but I treasure (schätze) it, that is I think it understand it well, i think he does the Christian view well.
And it was better in the original language.
So lets keep this up on the wall and get rid of the other tedious, half-inspired Christian tripe.

The link didn't work for me.

In talking about why humans invest in anything at all is
what I last night invested the better part of jazz
festival (where there was no jazz performed or played!) in . In
someone's courtyard, standing tightly against others,
where old women hung out the windows with austere smiles,
grown men irreverently pissed on the house walls in the bushes and on children's toy cars....

Why do we do anything at all? These routines...
From another point of view it was "sick" to think so,
from another "there's something to that",
for another "it's sick only if you stop doing things and
ignore the hunger when it returns, like after fasting, a
hunger to eat and do things and appreciate them in all
their roundness",
for another it was just amazing and dizzying that her duffel bag
containing several camera objectives (that weren't hers), and other things of value, got stolen and no
one saw who took it.

Could it be the more death anxiety you have the less it's
connected to death and the smaller the concern is? like
"the world in a grain of sand" as Mr. Blake says?

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Lakefingers]
    #16262614 - 05/21/12 12:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Have any of you guys heard of Sheldon Solomon or Terror Management Theory? Full disclosure: I work for a non profit that's trying to get me to market this webinar he's doing about TMT from our website psychalive.org and so I found this thread through that. But I've been a registered member on this forum for a few months coincidentally.

If any of you are either mental health professionals or have friends who are, the continuing education units (CE) are 3.5 (i think) for doing his webinar. Otherwise he's just an interesting dude and TMT is a really interesting theory. Here's the link and you can watch his video

http://www.psychalive.org/2012/05/exclusive-interview-with-dr-sheldon-solomon/

sorry if this is spam feel free to mod/delete it, but i think this is really relevant to this conversation. TMT is a sophisticated look at everything you're all talking about, with a positive spin.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: m.y.c.o]
    #16263334 - 05/21/12 03:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You are spamming bringing up all these old threads. One is enough.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16264542 - 05/21/12 07:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Icelander has death anxiety? :haha:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Jwlst]
    #16265260 - 05/21/12 09:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Brilliant deduction Sherlock. :braindamage:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16265394 - 05/21/12 10:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks Dr. Watson.

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OfflineGosuTricks
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Jwlst]
    #16267282 - 05/22/12 11:11 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You can't be afraid of death if you're dead. Just sayin.

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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: GosuTricks]
    #16267806 - 05/22/12 01:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GosuTricks said:
You can't be afraid of death if you're dead. Just sayin.




You seem to know what death is, therefor you're dead?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16757103 - 08/29/12 09:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Brilliant deduction Sherlock. :braindamage:




You will always exist indeed my friend.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16758821 - 08/30/12 09:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Now you're just tryin to scare me. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16759953 - 08/30/12 01:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Now you're just tryin to scare me. :sad:





Death Anxiety only occurs while in samsara.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762252 - 08/30/12 08:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I certainly have it. In my life I have tried to find and face what is true. I certainly would like to believe that I'm somehow special and eternal and that I can go on until I find bliss and fulfillment in eternity.

However I have not found real evidence for it. As I have looked deeply at my motivations for my thoughts and feelings and beliefs they all lead back to the fact that I am afraid of not being.

All the beliefs I have adopted are in service of reasuring my insecurites that I am not a temporary event with no more importance than a thought that quickly passes and is no more.

Even my belief that I have no permenence but the energy of my being goes on is in service of reassuring myself that I am part of something enduring that is personal (I am part of everything) (see, I'm always saying "I"). I just can't get away from death anxiety.

I believe that I am going to go on this way until I find out one way or another. I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all. That creates anxiey whether I like it or not.





That pretty much says it.
Around and 'round and 'round we go, where we stop, everyone knows.
WTF is all this?:confused:

Edited by Tropism (08/30/12 08:03 PM)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Tropism]
    #16762361 - 08/30/12 08:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It's life ... unfortunately. :hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762424 - 08/30/12 08:28 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Aye, but I mean grander than that. Even past the basic building blocks for as small as we can see, what is it all of it?
Or maybe the question is why. Why would there even be an it, or anything, or the concept of being, or the perception of conceptualization...
I'm sure this road is a familiar one for many of us, and I'm probably running over an old road.

None of this makes sense or should be, but it doesn't make any more sense for it not to be. :crazy2:

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Tropism]
    #16762435 - 08/30/12 08:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Questions questions.....


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762447 - 08/30/12 08:32 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Mhm, the mind reels in a hopeless effort, the same that would appear to be its only purpose.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Tropism]
    #16762641 - 08/30/12 08:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I still have a hard time believing that death anxiety is something essential to human nature. I really do think it's learned, but pretty much inescapable for anyone hoping to interact with other people in a meaningful way at this point in history.

By "death anxiety" I don't mean the simple instinct to protect one's own life, but its extended relations embedded in all our feelings about ourselves and others.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16762678 - 08/30/12 08:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

IMO it has to do with a highly developed neo cortex that comprehends the concepts of time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762692 - 08/30/12 09:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

As always, I like the way you think. :thumbup:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16762700 - 08/30/12 09:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

But I mean, you could have a highly developed neocortex which doesn't comprehend time. What if we just ditch that shit while keeping the good stuff? I think it could be possible.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762716 - 08/30/12 09:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah.
Time
Life expectancy=70
Logic says life is short in comparison to history/universe.
Better not die.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16762721 - 08/30/12 09:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
But I mean, you could have a highly developed neocortex which doesn't comprehend time. What if we just ditch that shit while keeping the good stuff? I think it could be possible.





You'd have to drop culture completely imo. That includes language and lots of other stuff.  I have no idea how to do that and survive physical existence.

Better to just not reproduce and die out. Problem solved. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762780 - 08/30/12 09:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

How have you maintained this so well ice?
Serious question:
(I hate condoms)
Do you use rubbers or pull out to prevent the offspring?
Bc we all know a bitch will lie about birth control in a cold second.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762786 - 08/30/12 09:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
But I mean, you could have a highly developed neocortex which doesn't comprehend time. What if we just ditch that shit while keeping the good stuff? I think it could be possible.





You'd have to drop culture completely imo. That includes language and lots of other stuff.  I have no idea how to do that and survive physical existence.

Better to just not reproduce and die out. Problem solved. :thumbup:




I think we could evolve out of the sense of time while retaining culture. All it really takes is a good memory and a sense of self based upon past experiences. The past experiences don't necessarily need to be arranged in a chronology. They could be weighted according to any number of factors which already function far better than the sense of chronology.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16762792 - 08/30/12 09:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
How have you maintained this so well ice?
Serious question:
(I hate condoms)
Do you use rubbers or pull out to prevent the offspring?
Bc we all know a bitch will lie about birth control in a cold second.

1L





Get a vasectomy. :thumbup:  Then you can be the one who gets to lie. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762821 - 08/30/12 09:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Good advice. I'd so do it if I didn't hate doctors and their pry inside me tools.
I guess stick to cumming on their tummy?
1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16762831 - 08/30/12 09:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Let em swallow it.  No risks there.  And you can always go up the ass.  :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762845 - 08/30/12 09:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That was my first predilection.
Hit it where it don't make no babies! Hahahhah
I can never get it to their mouth in time if I'm really enjoying the pink.
Pull out, tummy, bam.


1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16762865 - 08/30/12 09:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
How have you maintained this so well ice?
Serious question:
(I hate condoms)
Do you use rubbers or pull out to prevent the offspring?
Bc we all know a bitch will lie about birth control in a cold second.

1L





Get a vasectomy. :thumbup:  Then you can be the one who gets to lie. :wink:




My girlfriend volunteered me for a vasectomy. Said that if I don't get one by 30 I better be willing to have a kid because that's the last year she will be willing to take the pill. Apparently it has health risks if taken for too long. I didn't know that.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16762876 - 08/30/12 09:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

rots o ruck:haha:

Didn't work for my catholic neighbors so well.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16762899 - 08/30/12 09:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I respect you Icelander for admitting you have no idea why you exist what happens after death, and you aren't certain of anything is how a truly intelligent homo sapien lives.  The delusional person of desperately clinging to an unproven theory of why they exist and what happens after death like it's a fact is a pathogen of the collective mind of man, inhibiting it from becoming what it is supposed to be.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

Edited by Cognitive_Shift (08/30/12 09:32 PM)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #16762950 - 08/30/12 09:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
rots o ruck:haha:

Didn't work for my catholic neighbors so well.




I will commence to doing what they did not.
That is fight the sheer enjoyment of NOT pulling out, and blowing a load inside of aside female instead. Only to risk deadly, or lively? Consequences.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #16763139 - 08/30/12 10:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

oh ya that dude with the voice:bigyesnod:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #16763503 - 08/31/12 12:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks brother. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16764511 - 08/31/12 08:05 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I certainly have it. In my life I have tried to find and face what is true. I certainly would like to believe that I'm somehow special and eternal and that I can go on until I find bliss and fulfillment in eternity.

However I have not found real evidence for it. As I have looked deeply at my motivations for my thoughts and feelings and beliefs they all lead back to the fact that I am afraid of not being.

All the beliefs I have adopted are in service of reasuring my insecurites that I am not a temporary event with no more importance than a thought that quickly passes and is no more.

Even my belief that I have no permenence but the energy of my being goes on is in service of reassuring myself that I am part of something enduring that is personal (I am part of everything) (see, I'm always saying "I"). I just can't get away from death anxiety.

I believe that I am going to go on this way until I find out one way or another. I just can't really find a way to convince myself that I'm sure of anything at all. That creates anxiey whether I like it or not.




This is why I claim that I don't have much death anxiety. My whole life plan consciously revolves around achieving fleeting stimulation as many times as I can. All of my friends have life plans that include families and achieving something 'more'. Mine revolves around isolating myself in a place where I can hammer by brain with recreational chemicals all day until I decide to kill myself because the euphoria isn't as good anymore.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764579 - 08/31/12 08:29 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

claim away

You just have different shields. 

Take away the drug shields and what's left?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16764600 - 08/31/12 08:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
claim away

You just have different shields. 

Take away the drug shields and what's left?




What's left is boredom, or a lack of stimulation. When I am bored I constantly think about killing myself. It doesn't make me anxious, it makes me extremely apathetic and zombified. I have plenty of experience with anxiety, and that is not what I am feeling.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764642 - 08/31/12 08:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Boredom=protective shield. :wink:  Thinking of killing self=protective shield.  It's fuckin shields all the way down mate. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16764662 - 08/31/12 09:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Boredom=protective shield. :wink:  Thinking of killing self=protective shield.  It's fuckin shields all the way down mate. :laugh:




You have no evidence that anxiety is the default state. I don't think there is a default state at all.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764677 - 08/31/12 09:05 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Only reason I think if works:
Survival is the main stay of every animal.
Anxiety allows one to maintain the state of survival best, with no other survival skills garnered.
So anxiety is a logical default state.
No evidence just my supposition.
1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16764682 - 08/31/12 09:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Do you think fish have anxiety?

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764716 - 08/31/12 09:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Idk.
I donn think about things I cannot experience.
I am not a fish.
They seem anxious in their survival methods though.
Prob seemingly more so in looks, than most animals' survival methods


1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764723 - 08/31/12 09:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Boredom=protective shield. :wink:  Thinking of killing self=protective shield.  It's fuckin shields all the way down mate. :laugh:




You have no evidence that anxiety is the default state. I don't think there is a default state at all.





I think some of the TMT studies show DA to be evident when participants make claims of no anxiety.

I'm not going to claim there is conclusive evidence but I have to wonder why you are bored considering your resources.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764730 - 08/31/12 09:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Do you think fish have anxiety?




They have a precursor to it imo. Just add a developed neo-cortex.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16764740 - 08/31/12 09:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Memories said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Boredom=protective shield. :wink:  Thinking of killing self=protective shield.  It's fuckin shields all the way down mate. :laugh:




You have no evidence that anxiety is the default state. I don't think there is a default state at all.





I think some of the TMT studies show DA to be evident when participants make claims of no anxiety.

I'm not going to claim there is conclusive evidence but I have to wonder why you are bored considering your resources.




It's because humans acclimate to their environment. The intense highs require some boredom, not only to be contrasted with, but because my neurotransmitters need time to replenish.

Notice how I'm always focused on drugs as my way to enjoyment. Why do you think that is? I have plenty of experience doing most everything else people find enjoyment in, but if I can't do drugs in conjunction with it, I would rather sit on a couch and get high.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764746 - 08/31/12 09:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Notice how I'm always focused on drugs as my way to enjoyment. Why do you think that is?




You have found the perfect short term plan to avoid dealing with life.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16764756 - 08/31/12 09:27 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

My guess based on my own life experience is that you do drugs to cover up the pain of not being loved nurtured and accepted as a child.  You have no reason to believe life is a nice or fun place just the way it is.  Underneath this all feels threatening. When you are high you don't feel the threat.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16764773 - 08/31/12 09:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
My guess based on my own life experience is that you do drugs to cover up the pain of not being loved nurtured and accepted as a child.  You have no reason to believe life is a nice or fun place just the way it is.  Underneath this all feels threatening. When you are high you don't feel the threat.




OMG, you got one right.

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OfflineMemories
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16764778 - 08/31/12 09:35 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
My guess based on my own life experience is that you do drugs to cover up the pain of not being loved nurtured and accepted as a child.  You have no reason to believe life is a nice or fun place just the way it is.  Underneath this all feels threatening. When you are high you don't feel the threat.




Ya, I think that is pretty spot on. I'm just naturally skeptical of everything, so it's hard for me to definitively say death anxiety is the motivator behind all human behavior when I don't see mountains of evidence for it in the same way that scientific theories have mountains of evidence.

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Offlinesoylentgreen
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Memories]
    #16770868 - 09/01/12 11:46 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not afraid of death anymore. You were dead for an infinite amount of time and will be dead for an infinite amount of time.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: soylentgreen]
    #16771015 - 09/01/12 12:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

soylentgreen said:
I'm not afraid of death anymore. You were dead for an infinite amount of time and will be dead for an infinite amount of time.




How can you be dead if you're not born?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16772845 - 09/01/12 06:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

We were born. Why would you say we were not?


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Absolute]
    #16773832 - 09/01/12 10:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Absolute said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
My guess based on my own life experience is that you do drugs to cover up the pain of not being loved nurtured and accepted as a child.  You have no reason to believe life is a nice or fun place just the way it is.  Underneath this all feels threatening. When you are high you don't feel the threat.




OMG, you got one right.





It is close to the Arhat, suffers it does, must make sure it does not abuse De.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16773933 - 09/01/12 10:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It is close to the Arhat, suffers it does, must make sure it does not abuse De.



:yoda2:


--------------------
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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Cactilove]
    #16773990 - 09/01/12 10:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cactilove said:
Quote:

It is close to the Arhat, suffers it does, must make sure it does not abuse De.



:yoda2:





Even the psychological suffering transmutes the Karma.

Talk we must of the Death Anxiety.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16774046 - 09/01/12 11:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Is there end to suffering?:ahahaha:


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Cactilove]
    #16774110 - 09/01/12 11:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cactilove said:
Is there end to suffering?:ahahaha:





When death anxiety gone, Arhat is he.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16774153 - 09/01/12 11:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

What is someone you love dies?


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Cactilove]
    #16774175 - 09/01/12 11:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cactilove said:
What is someone you love dies?





Sentiment is an attachment.  You will see them again.  For Example:  If someone was elderly and suffering greatly, is it not selfish for a family member to prolong their life?  Sometimes they do this because they are projecting their own death anxiety upon their loved one.  "If they haven't gone yet, I must have a long time left in my life."

Suffering builds character, grief is certainly suffering.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16774687 - 09/02/12 02:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

what do you mean I will see them again? I don't believe that, I wont see the personality of the individual expression of the universe ever again. An, echo perhaps, but never a exact representation. I may rejoin them as the true self once again, but I don't think Ill see that guise ever again.


--------------------
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Cactilove]
    #16775469 - 09/02/12 08:37 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You will see them again.

And I'm supposed to rely on you for assurance of that?! Hehe :sploosh:

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16780891 - 09/03/12 11:02 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Your ego projects much.  I do not masturbate.  You do.


You do not know what I know.  You merely presume.


Hypothetically speaking:

If I have knowledge that you know not of, is it in your best interest to behave rudely?

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16781194 - 09/03/12 12:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If you had real knowledge you'd share it. Everyone in this thread has asked for such and you abstain from giving such. Therefore nobody will give two fucks what you have to say, get it? Reality doesn't revolve Around what you know, or around what I don't think you know.
Post some substance mr. Enlightened or gtfo with you prophetical attempt to put yourself on some kind of pedestal of in the know, and bludgeoning others with useless words when they try to get to the bottom
Of the delusional paradise you have created for yourself.
I do not mean to be rude. However I will point out illegitimate bs in a debate forum.
As will the countless others that have fallen under Shivas curse, due to this thread

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781203 - 09/03/12 12:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

And yes I jack my dick, it's a pretty natural function, according to most, if I'm not mistaken.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781228 - 09/03/12 12:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I will attempt to assist you my friend.

Many scientists consider thoughts to be made of some kind of material.  A table isn't actually solid, it is mostly empty space.  Your physical eyes give it the appearance of solidity, your hands certainly "tell you" it is solid.

If thoughts have a material form in some dimension, what does this imply?

If someone's mind is "not exactly clean" can they even ask questions about enlightenment and honestly expect to comprehend the responses?

EDIT

Masturbation is a "natural" activity among unenlightened.

Edited by Mr.Al (09/03/12 12:27 PM)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16781250 - 09/03/12 12:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes. Someone with full capacity to reason and logic. Are you forgetting these great virtues of great use?!
Clean or not doesn't give a bugger.
Now stop blubbering and tell me how the millions of males/females who masterbate are "dirty" according to yourself

Edit: idk what the fuck you are implying with the table bs...
And thoughts aren't substance anywhere but sparking in and  of your head. According to what I believe anyway.
Apparently they ARE substance floating around enlightenment space according to your beliefs

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Edited by ashfiken (09/03/12 12:37 PM)

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781264 - 09/03/12 12:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Life is life man you just got to live it and stop tweaking out about it so much... you could go get a glass of water to drink in five min and your hart could stop... just the way it is i would not stress out about it cause there is not one damn thing you can do about it/...


--------------------
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Jdiz]
    #16781273 - 09/03/12 12:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think this has been said before. Don't worry be happy?
Good thinking fella.
We all try to do this and be content as much as possible.
Some of us over think to the point where this can be hard.
Plus thinkin works my brain and is fun, beats watching tv or ^^(PORN)^^ for hours on end.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781278 - 09/03/12 12:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
Yes. Someone with full capacity to reason and logic. Are you forgetting these great virtues of great use?!
Clean or not doesn't give a bugger.
Now stop blubbering and tell me how the millions of males/females who masterbate are "dirty" according to yourself

Edit: idk what the fuck you and implying with the table bs...

1L





If a glass is full of dirty filth, say poop water, can you see through it?

The table talk was to show you that material/immaterial is not really dualistic but determined by what dimension you are viewing the table.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16781288 - 09/03/12 12:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
Yes. Someone with full capacity to reason and logic. Are you forgetting these great virtues of great use?!
Clean or not doesn't give a bugger.
Now stop blubbering and tell me how the millions of males/females who masterbate are "dirty" according to yourself

Edit: idk what the fuck you and implying with the table bs...

1L





If a glass is full of dirty filth, say poop water, can you see through it?

The table talk was to show you that material/immaterial is not really dualistic but determined by what dimension you are viewing the table.





What if it is just piss can you see through that? I mean wtf kinda rationalization is that?


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781305 - 09/03/12 12:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Oh other dimension is shoulda known. My friend the enlightened, he floats around in his dualistic dimension of propagated delusions I wonder how many words he can get out of this dude before he gets bored Of the nonsense

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Offlinecbad420
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781316 - 09/03/12 12:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have studied almost every belief about the afterlife, and dismissed all the religion's views of monotheism or any form of deitism for that matter. First off, we are energy, there is no doubt about that. And since energy cant be created nor destroyed. So no matter what, we do have eternal existence. However, if our energy has a conscience is debatable. I believe the most likely explanation is reincarnation. It seems our energy would want to inhabit something after death. I think of it like this, when a star dies, it's energy goes on in the form of a black hole, so we must go on after we die, just like the stars. After all, we are made up of stardust. Who are we to say we are the only "living" things. Maybe all energy can think, we have no way of knowing. There's a million possibilities when it comes to death, so


--------------------

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16781338 - 09/03/12 12:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
[...]

Edit: idk what the fuck you and implying with the table bs...

1L





If a glass is full of dirty filth, say poop water, can you see through it?

The table talk was to show you that material/immaterial is not really dualistic but determined by what dimension you are viewing the table.



It still hurts when you get it smashed upon your head... once in a while.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: cbad420]
    #16781365 - 09/03/12 12:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cbad420 said:
I have studied almost every belief about the afterlife, and dismissed all the religion's views of monotheism or any form of deitism for that matter. First off, we are energy, there is no doubt about that. And since energy cant be created nor destroyed. So no matter what, we do have eternal existence. However, if our energy has a conscience is debatable. I believe the most likely explanation is reincarnation. It seems our energy would want to inhabit something after death. I think of it like this, when a star dies, it's energy goes on in the form of a black hole, so we must go on after we die, just like the stars. After all, we are made up of stardust. Who are we to say we are the only "living" things. Maybe all energy can think, we have no way of knowing. There's a million possibilities when it comes to death, so





So you've looked at a newly rigored corpse and been able to discern the energy that once inhabited it went  "somewhere else" prove it, or you are just as silly as the fellow before.
No, no one knows and there's a million lossibilities of afterlife. But let's not make up things we like bc they work for us. And if there's energy with no conscious what's the point? What you know as you will eb gone forever.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781382 - 09/03/12 12:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
Yes. Someone with full capacity to reason and logic. Are you forgetting these great virtues of great use?!
Clean or not doesn't give a bugger.
Now stop blubbering and tell me how the millions of males/females who masterbate are "dirty" according to yourself

Edit: idk what the fuck you and implying with the table bs...

1L





If a glass is full of dirty filth, say poop water, can you see through it?

The table talk was to show you that material/immaterial is not really dualistic but determined by what dimension you are viewing the table.





What if it is just piss can you see through that? I mean wtf kinda rationalization is that?





It is literal.  Have you seen that legit enlightened people are rather calm?  Their minds are clean like a glass of water and they see things as they are.  If a mind is full of violence, or pornography, et cetera it is literally dirty and can not see things properly.  They are thus literally deluded by their own mental filth.  I mean this literally friend.  I also mean the word friend, friend.

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al] * 1
    #16781425 - 09/03/12 01:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Violence.
This is bad.

Pornography=sex=natural=bad?!?!? Huh? Enlightenedsss don't fuck, friend?
Deludes the mind?
Anything in this world can do that. Including feelings/thoughts of grandeur and superior thinking.
I do not condone evil actions, friend.
But I do not think watching people fuck is evil.
Killing yes fucking no.
You still are just clouding me from the path of your enlightenment by saying I am not worthy.
Once again I will say, enjoy your delusion.
1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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OfflineJdiz
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16781549 - 09/03/12 01:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

energy is what the human body is made up of... energy can not die it can only move and be absorbed by something else this is a fact... but who knows what will happen hell, it could just be black and that is it. Or you could be in a dream land for the rest of time, or you could be a floating ball of energy.... just live you life the best you can simple as that.....


--------------------
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand

Edited by Jdiz (09/03/12 01:35 PM)

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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16781622 - 09/03/12 01:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

First of all, nobody worry masturbation is a perfectly natural perfectly normal behavior enlightened or other wise. It all depend on how you do it. If you look at porn and you objectify woman and go out in real life and do the same that's no good. If you get addicted and don't seek out the real thing because you can pleasure yourself better, that's no good. If you treat it as a regular movie, and you know the difference between reality and movies, you are doing it alone, or with a trusted partner in private, that your business.
    Haven't any of you come to the fun realization that all this really is, is god masturbating. Not necaserilly sexually but emotionally, sexually, and mentally.
Rule number 1 of major religion brainwash control.
If you control someones sex life and sexuality, it is much easier to control them.
It is not about hedonism, it is not about asectsism, it's about the in-between.
Now it is ok to stop masturbating as long as it is not suppression, you need to transmutate the energy, direct it toward more important tasks. I go on a south american diet that requires no masturbation, but I do it because I want to not because it's bad to masturbate.

Mr. Al
There is no water.


--------------------
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Jdiz]
    #16781636 - 09/03/12 01:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think the human body is made up of something like 70 percent water. If we are talkin about what the brain is made up as I think it can be more accurately described as low electic charge carrying synapses vs energy.
I don't think out "energy" is any sort of spiritual
Collective,
Merely the functioning of
Ones body and mind.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16782109 - 09/03/12 03:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
Violence.
This is bad.

Pornography=sex=natural=bad?!?!? Huh? Enlightenedsss don't fuck, friend?
Deludes the mind?
Anything in this world can do that. Including feelings/thoughts of grandeur and superior thinking.
I do not condone evil actions, friend.
But I do not think watching people fuck is evil.
Killing yes fucking no.
You still are just clouding me from the path of your enlightenment by saying I am not worthy.
Once again I will say, enjoy your delusion.
1L





Pornography does not equal sex.  Pornography is mental masturbation.

It is possible to make love without lust.  That is the basis of Tantra, which I do not practice personally, but is only valid without lust.

It has to do with controlling your physical vessel, not the other way around.  Do you let your car drive itself?

Superior/Inferior, that is from your own mind, you are projecting again, just like the talk about masturbation that you project.  I am holding up a mirror and asking you what you see, why are you angry at me?

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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16782343 - 09/03/12 03:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm far from angry I more than anything sympathize with your precarious position.
Superior =I'm not worthy of the things you know.
Whatever, you just said it was dirty and that you don't even practice where you gave no lust so fux tht yo.
I'm projecting very little just taking what you say literally.
To show the absurdity.
I have fasted and abstained from everything actosse the board at one time or another. For my personal richness.
So don't paint a picture of clarity when I have seen as clear as it gets, still looks as poop

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Edited by ashfiken (09/03/12 03:59 PM)

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16782442 - 09/03/12 04:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Just the blonde avatar shows that you need to work on something.

I am not being mean to you, this is compassion I am showing you.

Friends who tell you that you are great and have nothing to work on aren't doing you favors.

If someone is pointing out the error of your ways, that person is a True friend.

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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16782526 - 09/03/12 04:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't want friends especially ones that focus on my negative traits wherever they may be.
The blonde avatar means nothing except I love soccer and fucking. Like a normal male.
Thank you for your concern, but I'm not looking for counseling.
If I was I would consult icelanders seminaar.
Delusion is not the trip I need or want to take friend.
Cheers I will not be spending further breath on your absurdity it has swelled even more.

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16782548 - 09/03/12 04:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
I don't want friends especially ones that focus on my negative traits wherever they may be.
The blonde avatar means nothing except I love soccer and fucking. Like a normal male.
Thank you for your concern, but I'm not looking for counseling.
If I was I would consult icelanders seminaar.
Delusion is not the trip I need or want to take friend.
Cheers I will not be spending further breath on your absurdity it has swelled even more.

1L




You love fucking with what lady? DEEEEEEP down there, one could say you contribute to diseases with your avatar.


--------------------
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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782765 - 09/03/12 05:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Huh? Diseases?
I don't comprehend

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16782773 - 09/03/12 05:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
Huh? Diseases?
I don't comprehend

1L




Porn spread disease subconsciously.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782789 - 09/03/12 05:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That's pretty paranoid dood. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16782814 - 09/03/12 05:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's pretty paranoid dood. :haha:




Paranoia kept me away from ever having an STD, and yes i have been inside several holes. :thumbup:

Then again, psychology is key towards seeing who's potential STD and not.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782840 - 09/03/12 05:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)



1:50

HOLY SHIT theres so much win in this


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782846 - 09/03/12 05:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

How does watching porn give you STDs?  You got to get your info somewhere besides the christian news service.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16782871 - 09/03/12 05:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm still trying to figure it out. :shrug:

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16782872 - 09/03/12 05:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
How does watching porn give you STDs?  You got to get your info somewhere besides the christian news service.




It contributes, you know what i mean man.

When i watch porn, some monkey does too and so it goes -> monkey does what he see's in video to several girls. Very basic stuff this.$$$


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16782876 - 09/03/12 05:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
I'm still trying to figure it out. :shrug:

1L




PSYCHOLOGY.:thumbup:


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782888 - 09/03/12 05:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

And without watching porn he would not fuck several girls?
Huh?
Im pretty sure those with stds are those with stds porn aside.
Now if you said prostitution contributes you may have claim
1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16782946 - 09/03/12 05:44 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
And without watching porn he would not fuck several girls?
Huh?
Im pretty sure those with stds are those with stds porn aside.
Now if you said prostitution contributes you may have claim
1L




I dont know, depends on his intelligence.

"Fucking around" is destructive as it takes STDS into relationships, your avatar promotes "FUCKING around". You promote pornography and through this you subconsciously promote STDS or destructivity.

Prostitution contributes too.


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782957 - 09/03/12 05:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
How does watching porn give you STDs?  You got to get your info somewhere besides the christian news service.




It contributes, you know what i mean man.

When i watch porn, some monkey does too and so it goes -> monkey does what he see's in video to several girls. Very basic stuff this.$$$





That may be true for you but it's hardly true for everyone.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16782968 - 09/03/12 05:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"Fucking around" is destructive

So what you're saying is that before modern culture and monogamy and so called romantic love,  all of our ancestors sex was destructive. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783031 - 09/03/12 06:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
How does watching porn give you STDs?  You got to get your info somewhere besides the christian news service.




It contributes, you know what i mean man.

When i watch porn, some monkey does too and so it goes -> monkey does what he see's in video to several girls. Very basic stuff this.$$$





That may be true for you but it's hardly true for everyone.




Well, thats the point, people get brainwashed watching pornography and spread STDS.

Pornography is nothing but $.

And through STDS you generate money but that fits in the conspiracy forum.


ITS ALL ABOUT ££€$€$$


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16783047 - 09/03/12 06:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't pay any money for my porn addiction. :haha:

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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: White Beard]
    #16783064 - 09/03/12 06:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Same and agree with what Ice says, previous the these cultures monogamy was not the norm

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: ashfiken]
    #16783765 - 09/03/12 08:18 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
Same and agree with what Ice says, previous the these cultures monogamy was not the norm

1L





Some can pull it off.  However, you don't strike me as being King Solomon

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783775 - 09/03/12 08:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

All of our ancestors pulled it off. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783786 - 09/03/12 08:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If you ejaculate too much you lose sexual essence and life span is shortened.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783791 - 09/03/12 08:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm older than you.  What I'm doing must be working but I'm worried about you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: White Beard]
    #16783814 - 09/03/12 08:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
I don't pay any money for my porn addiction. :haha:




You pay in the way your genes get destructive.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16783818 - 09/03/12 08:26 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

proof?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783854 - 09/03/12 08:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
proof?




Try logic and psychology. :wink:


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16783859 - 09/03/12 08:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

wrong. Since when do you use logic?:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783864 - 09/03/12 08:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
wrong. Since when do you use logic?:confused:




When it triggers.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16783873 - 09/03/12 08:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

never has yet. :lol:


But lets start with you explaining how his genes will get destructive. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783883 - 09/03/12 08:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
never has yet. :lol:





Perhaps if you aren't picky with who you have relations with you end up with kids that are less than ideal?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783888 - 09/03/12 08:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No kids are ideal.  The enlightened don't need to go there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783917 - 09/03/12 08:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No kids are ideal.  The enlightened don't need to go there.





To each his own.  If someone is enlightened I would say they might contribute to society by teaching a kid right from wrong.  If you are enlightened and don't want to reproduce, adoption is an option.  If someone is enlightened they certainly make a better parent than an unenlightened person.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783929 - 09/03/12 08:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm enlightened.  I know to let people alone.  They will work it all out while I :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783937 - 09/03/12 08:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm enlightened.  I know to let people alone.  They will work it all out while I :lol:





Do your ears work?

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783939 - 09/03/12 08:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Do yours?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783943 - 09/03/12 08:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
never has yet. :lol:


But lets start with you explaining how his genes will get destructive. :laugh:




This is the way i communicate, try choppin the track and figure my words through this:



2:55, 3:17, 3:37


His genes will get destructive in the way it will contribute to STDS, as i have said previously in this thread, try page 11.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16783957 - 09/03/12 08:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Are you related to Mr. Al?:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783964 - 09/03/12 08:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Do yours?




We're all smartasses and you're the simple, we get it. :tongue:


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783965 - 09/03/12 08:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Do yours?





My celestial ears work ridiculously well.  My third eye?  Colors and light, haven't focused or something.

I am honest, every word is True.

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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783966 - 09/03/12 08:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Are you related to Mr. Al?:lol:




No, he's your son.


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Offlineashfiken
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783976 - 09/03/12 09:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

ashfiken said:
Same and agree with what Ice says, previous the these cultures monogamy was not the norm

1L





Some can pull it off.  However, you don't strike me as being King Solomon




You have no clue what you've been struck by.
Let alone what I may be like.
If you have enough love then one shouldn't be limited to one woman, if that is what one chooses.
This thread has officially filled itself up to the brim
With
Bullshit.
And porn watching contributes to sexually "deviant" behavior which is detrimental bc it exposes one to stds.
Ok. When I get an std from
Sleeping around with pretty Christian girls that I trick into wanting my cock
I will let you know,

1L


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: liquidlounge]
    #16783977 - 09/03/12 09:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Are you related to Mr. Al?:lol:




No, he's your son.





I am far older.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16783978 - 09/03/12 09:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm more honest and truer. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783991 - 09/03/12 09:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm more honest and truer. :thumbup:





Enlightened being don't get into a pissing contest.

True is a Cosmic Principle. Chinese = Zhen

Falun Gong talk about it.

Falundafa.org

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Invisibleliquidlounge

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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16783995 - 09/03/12 09:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I trust icelander here since he admit he like boys or men.


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Re: My death anxiety [Re: Mr.Al]
    #16784009 - 09/03/12 09:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I'm glad you've recognized your competitiveness due to my mirroring  and you  will now hopefully decease.  This is growth Al and I'm glad for your gains. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
Re: My death anxiety [Re: Icelander]
    #16784072 - 09/03/12 09:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
I trust icelander here since he admit he like boys or men.




Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm glad you've recognized your competitiveness due to my mirroring  and you  will now hopefully decease.  This is growth Al and I'm glad for your gains. :heart:





Your ears don't work and my eye isn't much more useful.

WTF.

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