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Offlinelines
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What makes people value learning?
    #8779758 - 08/15/08 10:04 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I have been thinking about this for a few days. I was wondering if anyone has any insights into this. Is there a religion, cultural meme, or political movement that encourages people to value learning and high culture? Today I was watching the news and I was saddened to see a reporter use slang while making a point. I feel uncomfortable living in a society where that sort of behavior happens. I also feel uncomfortable with the fart jokes on tv. It is not respectable for these sorts of things to occur. Is there anyway to counteract this cultural deterioration?

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OfflineNobodyImportant
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: lines]
    #8779793 - 08/15/08 10:15 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Its kind of sad but all through my school career (im a senior in HS now) it has been "cool" to act stupid

I personally value learning just about everything I am taught in school :smile:

(off topic but I just saw my old middle school teacher on TV, he got arrested for stalking one of the kids :eek:*

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: NobodyImportant]
    #8779870 - 08/15/08 10:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: deranger]
    #8779954 - 08/15/08 10:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

if you try to counteract it, there will be resistance. what is it about fart jokes that makes you feel uncomfortable? i know that for me, it's that they remind of how disgusting the biology of life can be. and i guess that's something i've never felt comfortable with, having this body that's full of blood and organs and produces various types of foul odors.

so anyway, while i don't like fart jokes, i don't think that suppressing them would solve MY problem because not acknowledging that we have these dirty bodies doesn't make us any more clean.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: lines]
    #8780052 - 08/15/08 11:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lines said:
What makes people value learning?



We are taught that "knowledge is power", but it is the intentions in how one applies that knowledge/power as to where one can place a "value" in it....
But, with the diversity of where people choose to place "value", there is no true objective answer to your question....
If bliss is what one finds the most value in, ignorance would prolly~ suit a person better than knowledge....



Quote:

lines said:
Is there any way to counteract this cultural deterioration?



Don't take part in what you find to be the "deterioration" part of it....
"Be the change you want to see...." 


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8780174 - 08/15/08 11:40 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
If bliss is what one finds the most value in, ignorance would prolly~ suit a person better than knowledge....





ime bliss occurs through elevated awareness.  ignorance is lack of awareness, so I don't see how this works.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: deranger]
    #8780243 - 08/15/08 11:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

An example of how I think this works....
You are now aware that there are dying skin and bone innocent diseases ridden children starving in Africa making life a literal living hell for them....
Life is a hell of a lot more blissful not having the "burden" of this kind of knowledge....

I am sure there are examples to be made up that don't have to do with empathy, but that was the first that popped into mind....
Basically, if you don't know (ignorant) about the "bad", then all is "good"....

I also think that the wording in that particular metaphor is a little different than the actual mental state of "bliss"....  :thumbup:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8780303 - 08/16/08 12:08 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
An example of how I think this works....
You are now aware that there are dying skin and bone innocent diseases ridden children starving in Africa making life a literal living hell for them....
Life is a hell of a lot more blissful not having the "burden" of this kind of knowledge....





I think both can be had at the same time.  The lack of bliss is when there is emotional identification to this knowledge.

I've never found any interest in that metaphor, it sounds misleading... maybe there is something I am not understanding. :shrug:

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: deranger]
    #8780397 - 08/16/08 12:25 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
The lack of bliss is when there is emotional identification to this knowledge.




For a lot of people (most?), it is difficult to not feel emotion when pondering certain "negative" forms of knowledge....
YMMV

Metaphors can be misleading....    :thumbup:
Context sometimes helps, but then it is no longer a metaphor, is it....? 


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8780414 - 08/16/08 12:29 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
The lack of bliss is when there is emotional identification to this knowledge.




For a lot of people (most?), it is difficult to not feel emotion when pondering certain "negative" forms of knowledge....
YMMV






yeah I was going to say that :thumbup:

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Offlinelines
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: porcupine]
    #8780709 - 08/16/08 02:03 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
if you try to counteract it, there will be resistance. what is it about fart jokes that makes you feel uncomfortable? i know that for me, it's that they remind of how disgusting the biology of life can be. and i guess that's something i've never felt comfortable with, having this body that's full of blood and organs and produces various types of foul odors.

so anyway, while i don't like fart jokes, i don't think that suppressing them would solve MY problem because not acknowledging that we have these dirty bodies doesn't make us any more clean.




Jokes are supposed to be clever observations about life that bring to light certain absurdities of the world. To reduce humor to farting and burping is a symptom of degraded intelligence. It encourages people to be stupid.

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: lines]
    #8780727 - 08/16/08 02:14 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: lines]
    #8780777 - 08/16/08 02:28 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lines said:
Quote:

porcupine said:
if you try to counteract it, there will be resistance. what is it about fart jokes that makes you feel uncomfortable? i know that for me, it's that they remind of how disgusting the biology of life can be. and i guess that's something i've never felt comfortable with, having this body that's full of blood and organs and produces various types of foul odors.

so anyway, while i don't like fart jokes, i don't think that suppressing them would solve MY problem because not acknowledging that we have these dirty bodies doesn't make us any more clean.




Jokes are supposed to be clever observations about life that bring to light certain absurdities of the world. To reduce humor to farting and burping is a symptom of degraded intelligence. It encourages people to be stupid.




Farting and burping brings to light the absurdity of our physical bodies.  :grin:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: lines]
    #8780903 - 08/16/08 03:41 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I would like to make a huge distinction between facts and patterns.
learning facts is like filling up on junk food. you taste the simple flavor and get a filled up feeling, but it provides little growth or sense of nourishment.

you can parlay facts with others - exchange etc, but they enable mere tactical changes without transforming the self or increasing understanding in a lasting way.

patterns on the other hand, in which you learn  more about how things fit together, or more about learning, or about yourself, are incredibly more valuable than facts, but much harder to trade with others.

anyway I consder pattern to be much more personally valuable than facts because of this and I think leatning how things work together is a thing that is pretty much endless. there is always more to learn about how things interact and affect eachother.

classes and courses that teach pattern or systems are profoundly more valuable than classes and courses that merely teach a series of facts.

a teacher can make language or math or even history into a pattern and system excursion or they can merely visit the course outline as a trajectory through facts only, it should be much more than just covering the material, in order to have lasting value.

if the teacher does not do this - the student has to do it for him/her self.
finding the underlying pattern is like finding the essence of something, or the vital key to it.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8781143 - 08/16/08 06:26 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Nice....    :thumbup:

It is an art-form of finesse to store it all in a way to be usefully and appropriately recalled when queried....
Creating pattern associations is like aligning the modular formed scaffolding to the matrix superstructure....


>^;;^<

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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8781156 - 08/16/08 06:33 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I would like to make a huge distinction between facts and patterns.
learning facts is like filling up on junk food. you taste the simple flavor and get a filled up feeling, but it provides little growth or sense of nourishment.



Yeah good point, in school you basicly only learn real things in the first grades, after that, you only get to learn facts and facts.. which in the end will be completely useless. Instead of learning how to use our mind, we just have to stuff our minds full of useless stuff.

Hasn't anyone found it weird that basicly the only thing we do in school is memorize stuff, but we never learn how to memorize stuff?

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Offlinefigmentfragment
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #8781355 - 08/16/08 08:22 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Quote:

lines said:
Quote:

porcupine said:
if you try to counteract it, there will be resistance. what is it about fart jokes that makes you feel uncomfortable? i know that for me, it's that they remind of how disgusting the biology of life can be. and i guess that's something i've never felt comfortable with, having this body that's full of blood and organs and produces various types of foul odors.

so anyway, while i don't like fart jokes, i don't think that suppressing them would solve MY problem because not acknowledging that we have these dirty bodies doesn't make us any more clean.




Jokes are supposed to be clever observations about life that bring to light certain absurdities of the world. To reduce humor to farting and burping is a symptom of degraded intelligence. It encourages people to be stupid.




Farting and burping brings to light the absurdity of our physical bodies.  :grin:




To acknowledge the absurdity of our conditioned hang-ups and shame about our physical bodies and their functions.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8782775 - 08/16/08 03:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I don't personally have any issue with being reminded how weird and smelly my own body is, it's just one of those facts of life. Farts are funny. They stink, and we all have to do it from time to time. :lol:

I do agree with the original point though - TV is very lowest-common-denominator, and there are a lot of folks who cling to ignorance like it's a raft. TV is not helping us solve this problem, but would you expect it to?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8785493 - 08/17/08 05:23 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

there is another purpose for school
it keeps people out of the work force.

to get ahead in the job market, it helps to have a resume that has secondary school and college-university,
and even if they don't effectively teach, hanging in becomes an important social issue.

if you enter the work force too early, it keeps you at lower level jobs.
unless you have tons of cash, or great business skills
you stay at lower paying jobs.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineBoots
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Re: What makes people value learning? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8788177 - 08/17/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Perhaps, it's because they've learned something valuable and henceforth grew to associate learning with good things.

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