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OfflineWretxh
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Registered: 08/10/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
New casing mixture
    #875821 - 09/10/02 11:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I am going to try a new casing mixture I thought up.
5 parts peat moss
5 parts vermiculite
1 part gypsum
1 part calci-sand (reptile substrate made from 300,000,000 yr. old marineanimals)

Any input, experience, comments?

I will post how well it does. I still have to wait for my bird seed to colonize.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Wretxh]
    #875958 - 09/11/02 03:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

>Any input, experience, comments?

Since you don?t add limestone, the pH will likely be quite under 7, not good.


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Anno]
    #876003 - 09/11/02 04:30 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I believe the calci-sand is a fossilized calcium carbonate from ancient plankton.If so it should be as good if not superior(trace elements) to limestone.The exact composition should be determined though as many "diatomites" contain high silica levels and may need amounts adjusted to acheive correct pH.Interesting mix,good luck WR :wink:


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: whiterasta]
    #876012 - 09/11/02 04:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The problem with a sand is that it doesn?t really have an immediate effect on pH since it takes quite some time to dissolve....


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Anno]
    #876068 - 09/11/02 01:50 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

This isn't exactly a sand per se,if it the substance I think he's refering to it is relatively fine but extremely porous,even more so than cat litter or perlite.It is basicaly the calcarious remains of plankton and has a HUGE surface area (potentialy greater than limestone by many orders of magnitude)IMHO if the casing is allowed to co-mingle for a small amount of time before use it will be as effective as Calcium Carbonate(that is esentially what it is) I would be VERY interested in results as the diatomaceous calcium will most certainly be well endowed with trace minerals organicaly precipitated from the ocean.This fact alone would make it a superior form of CaCO3 for all aspects of culture.Good Luck WR


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InvisibleSixTango
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: New casing mixture [Re: whiterasta]
    #876162 - 09/11/02 02:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like the sand stuff is Diatomite (DE).

Which will not "adjust" ph.

DE is inert silica -- derived from the fossilized remaims of Diatoms (like alge).

Do a search on google about Diatomite, for more exrensive info.

DE is great for retaining moisture in both substrate & casing material. :laugh:

Limestone is a way differing thing, with a totaly differing chemical composition. :smirk:

It will adjust ph.

To do that quickly, it must be finely ground. If not, it takes months to adjust ph. You want to wait that LONG?

6T  :tongue:

 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: whiterasta]
    #876401 - 09/11/02 04:54 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"Diatomite contains 90 % SiO2 plus Al, Fe, Ca and Mg oxides."


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InvisibleSixTango
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Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Anno]
    #876419 - 09/11/02 05:00 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

LOL,

Thanks Anno.  :wink:

Your correct. (as almost always :laugh:).

I should have stated "primarily" SiO2.

6T :tongue:

 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: SixTango]
    #876450 - 09/11/02 05:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

No, you were right, I think too that it?s not suitable as a good casing aditive.


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OfflineShaw
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Wretxh]
    #876452 - 09/11/02 05:17 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

nobody else thinks he's using way too much gypsum? Guess it's just me then. I'd cut it down


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Shaw]
    #876456 - 09/11/02 05:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Gypsum is not usually used in a casing mixture at all...


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Anno]
    #876609 - 09/11/02 06:39 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That is correct "diatomite" is an incorrect term (this comes from working a "diatomite" mine, many materials are incorrectly but ubiquitously called "diatomite") although :wink: this term is used industrialy for planktonic skeletons of any composition.Anno your chemical description of "diatomaceous earth" is accurate but what remains in question is the composition of the material being used which could be any ratio of CaCO3 to SiO2 as planktonic remains come in various ratios(the place I worked we were working a "diatomite" which was 68% SiO2 and 21.5% CaCO3 9-10% petroleum)In the larger area which I worked we had a "diatomaceous earth" mine which produced the silica diatomite to which Anno refers,I worked the Airox oil bearing layer under the silica and below that was a layer of chalk(more planktonic skeletal matter made strictly of CaCO3)The transition layer was almost 50/50 silica/chalk with traces of iron oxide.So without a chemical breakdown of the product refered to it remains somewhat speculative as to the benefits of the material.Although I can say that if it is being used for reptile litter it is probably CaCO3 rather than silica just from a health standpoint for the reptile(silica is a respiratory irritant) Again though these products are known primarily for their huge surface area so I have to say it is probably a very good source for CaCO3 in a casing mix.Peace WR  :wink:


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Invisiblemickey_rourke
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: whiterasta]
    #876658 - 09/11/02 06:52 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Very informative post. Thanks!


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"I tried to put it all behind me, but my redneck past is nipping at my heels.." -- Ben Folds Five


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InvisibleSixTango
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: New casing mixture [Re: whiterasta]
    #876872 - 09/11/02 07:56 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In fact: Diatomite is a generic term -- like paint.

There are 10 +++ million differing kinds of "paint".

However, it is the correct term.

For more than you ever want to know about Diatomite -- direct from the horses mouth --go to this link.

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/diatomite/diamyb2001.pdf

A high quality (relativly pure & white) Diatomite is primarily amorphous hydrous silica.

Which is not a lung irritant. Unless you breath so much of it in, it clogs your nose, just as any dust would.

The Raccoon has a foaf who owns a large diatomite deposit.

The Raccoon's foaf - uncles neighbors girlfreind uses it in very small amounts in bulk substrate & casing material (for it's water retention & slow release qualities).

He thinks it helps. It cannot hurt -- in small % amounts  :wink:.

It also serves as a inert - non/toxic mechanical insecticide :laugh:.

But, that is another whole story -- by itself  :smirk:.

6T :tongue:


 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: SixTango]
    #876995 - 09/11/02 08:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The correct term is actually pozzolan for partial-silica diatomites.And yes Silica dust is a lung irritant and is the cause of silicosis a well known disease among Johns Mansville workers(the cause of my uncles death).Amorphous silica is a byproduct/purified silica also known as fumed silica(because it is precipitated from silane gas) this product also carries an inhalation warning but is an entirely diferent product from white diatomaceous earth.The FOAF's uncles girlfreind should use a respirator when exposed to the dust from her additive. :wink:
PS.Diatomite is literally rock made of diatoms and diatoms can have skeletons of either silica or calcium carbonate so those are the minerals you will find in diatomite the percentages of each will vary from site to site. To the point samples of diatomite can be precisely pinpointed by the trace elements found within it.


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Edited by whiterasta (09/11/02 08:30 AM)


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: New casing mixture [Re: whiterasta]
    #878331 - 09/11/02 04:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

WhiteRasta,

You have my condolences regarding your uncles demise. Any loss of life is a sad thing.Certainly, extended continious exposure to any minute particulate you can breath in, is a health hazard.

For that matter, statistics show "grain" has cause more death than Diatomite. Peaple who work around "grain storage silo?s, mill?s and such breath the dust from it. A health hazard. Matter of fact - peaple have drown in it & under certain circumstance - flour derived from grain is both a fire hazard & explosive.

Should we not use grain like rye?

You & all Americans eat minute amounts of Diatomite every day (& have for 50 years). Because it is introduced into every grain & cerial product in America. Diatomite is used to filter water in many major cities. It also is used to filter about every cooking oil & store beverage you use or drink, including wine & beer.

None have silica "warning" labels. Because none are needed or required by law.

Nor is this intended to be a hairsplitting match turned into hyper anal overdrive.

But your wrong. "Pozzolan" is a material capable of reacting with lime to produce cement.

Diatomite has a very minor calcuim content. It certainly is not formed from Limestone.

If you doubt any of that?

LOOK IN THIS MINERAL DICTONARY.

http://imcg.wr.usgs.gov/dmmrt/

You might also look up LIMESTONE.

PS. The Racoon?s foaf mothers neighbor?s sister owns several Diatomite & Limestone deposits & has dealt with Johns Mansville, as well as several major limestone producers on a lease royalty basis.

Here is an old picture of one "little " 100 million ton Diatomite deposit he owns.

6T :tongue:








 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineShaw
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Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2,213
Loc: midwest, usa
Last seen: 8 months, 23 days
Re: New casing mixture [Re: Anno]
    #878380 - 09/11/02 04:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Gypsum is not normally used, but this guy's whole point is to come up with a new recipie. It could be used in small ammounts to possibly allow the material to hold more moisture while staying at the correct consistancy, or for whatever reason he hopes to gain from it.

And six, what exactly is the point your getting at? rasta's dolmite is less toxic than rye, and i should put it on my cereal and snort it through a straw? I would prefer to believe it is toxic, and lifetime exposure will kill you, just like perlite, or asbestos. That shit gets in your lungs and it aint never comin out. And if workers were not warned of this, and given proper dust masks and respirators it is definatly the companies fault. I hope his family got some kind of settlement.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: New casing mixture [Re: Shaw]
    #878482 - 09/11/02 05:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"dolmite"?

The discussion was about "Diatomite".

Bong hit #3.

The point I was trying to get to is this.

Diatomite is a good thing when used carefully & properly.

WhiteRasta makes it sound like poison.

The Raccoon has found that a 50/50 + -- with a little Coir & Diatomite mixed in - then all pasturized -- is the best & most productive "casing" mix he has ever used.

Diatomite retains more water by weight or volume than coir, verm or about any other thing you can use. The purpose of a "casing " is in part to provide moisture.

Right  :grin:

Bong hit #4

6T :tongue:

 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


Edited by SixTango (09/11/02 05:26 PM)


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InvisibleAlkaloids
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Registered: 11/16/98
Posts: 743
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: Shaw]
    #878542 - 09/11/02 05:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

even lifetime exposure to life will kill you... *ha ha lol*
#5


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: New casing mixture [Re: SixTango]
    #879085 - 09/11/02 11:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Please reread my posts,no where did I make diatomite out as poison in fact pozzolanic diatomites are calcareous and excellent additives.Please reread what I have written again.It is the calcareous nature of pozzolanic diatomites which make them cementitious it is also what would allow you to use pozzolanic diatomite in place of lime.Pure" Diatomaceous earth" is a strictly silica form of diatomite effective as a filiter bed due to it's huge surface area.This same reason is why calcareous pozzolan is an acceptable substitute for lime.
PS if we need split hair Diatomaceous earth is usually nearly pure silica.All other diatomites contain calcium carbonate in varying amounts.No silica is NOT poison it is inert however so is asbstos and look what fun it is to breathe.The water holding ability reffered to is a result of the huge surface area of the particles.
I have done my best here to clarify WR
PS 6t,The link you provided specificly mentions the diatomite deposits which I worked near Lompoc Ca.The whole area is DE , chalk and pozzolan.It is also home to P semillanceata,cubensis,and many active Panneoli in the cow pastures surrounding.They all are fruiting in the calcium rich soils surrounding the deposits mentioned Peace :wink: WR


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Edited by whiterasta (09/12/02 01:31 AM)


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