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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study
    #8727444 - 08/05/08 01:59 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

http://news.smh.com.au/world/vitamin-c-injections-slow-cancer-in-mice-study-20080805-3qdr.html
Before you get your hopes up:
Quote:

Injections were necessary because the body regulates vitamin C when ingested, so that higher doses cannot be attained.




But the fact that tumours shrank when mice were injected with vitamin C means they can justify trying to find an analogue of vitamin C that can bypass the body's regulatory system.

Quote:

The researchers concluded that the findings "provide the first firm basis for advancing pharmacologic ascorbate in cancer treatment in humans."

Vitamin C was considered as a possible treatment for cancer three decades ago, but subsequent studies showed oral doses provided no benefit.




--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: zouden]
    #8727645 - 08/05/08 05:20 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Once you've done both, you realize that the difference between human and rodent research is night and day.

A good start though.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: badchad]
    #8728650 - 08/05/08 11:52 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Once you've done both, you realize that the difference between human and rodent research is night and day.

A good start though.



Very true. It actually seems to me that we would be much better in curing rodents than humans. Is this true? and if so, why? Would we have the same success if we could test that easy on humans?

Edited by Annom (08/05/08 12:30 PM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: Annom]
    #8729376 - 08/05/08 02:34 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I am not a cancer researcher so I won't pretend to be an expert in the field.  However, I have been to many seminars and heard quotes thrown around as to:

"We have cured cancer in rodents many times"
http://www.curedisease.net/quotes/cancer.shtml

1.  As you eluded to, it is infinently easier to do rodent/animal/in vitro research than human (ethical considerations).

2.  The lifespan of a lab rat is about 2 years.  A human has about 70 years more variability, and has much broader range of experience(s). 

3.  You can't push the dose in humans.

4.  Animals don't really complain of side effects.

5.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were fundamental, physiological differences in the way "cancers" act in rodents and humans.

Search pubmed.  You will find thousands of articles where tumors and/or cancer cells are killed/diminshed/prevented in vitro and in animals.  For some reason the majority of these cancer "breakthroughs" never translate into human therapies.

I fully and wholeheartedly support cancer and biomedical research, however i've learned to remain in my seat, rather than jump up and cheer at every AP news report touting a potential "cure".


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: badchad]
    #8729752 - 08/05/08 04:16 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I think the main reason why so many treatments never make it to humans is because of adverse effects that weren't picked up in the rodent trials, rather than the treatment simply not working in humans. Or it'll be a combination of adverse effects and the efficacy not being as high as they'd hoped.
In any case it must be pretty frustrating for the researchers!


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflinePlasmid
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Registered: 06/01/08
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Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: zouden]
    #8731442 - 08/05/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I'm sure it is.  It is becoming more and more expensive, in terms of research and development, for each new drug to get to market.  It's not only a long and expensive process: a lot of leads simply never make it.  I can't imagine what it would be like to be involved in lead discovery, only to realize that like 1/10000 promising compounds ever make it to clinical trials.

Yet on the other hand, instead of clinical trials and tons of data, I know some people who would rather just do away with testing because they "know" that some naturopathic thing or the other works because they 'can feel it cleaning their liver.'  No need for testing.  No need to demonstrate efficacy.  Just sell it and let people hope it works.

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: Plasmid]
    #8731563 - 08/05/08 10:41 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I once saw (on TV) someone defending whatever snake oil she was selling, saying that "this isn't evidence-based medicine, it's outcome-based medicine"
:sad:
A statement like that... it's not even wrong. It's incomprehensible.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinelines
Stranger
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Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 1,409
Loc: USA
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: zouden]
    #8733962 - 08/06/08 01:53 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I think I read something about jalapeno peppers having anti-cancer affects. Although I also read that jalapeno peppers shouldnt be eaten every day because according to what I read if eaten daily they may have some adverse effect. I took this to mean if eaten weekly nothing bad would happen. jalapenos I think may also have some positive impact on the heart and metabolism.

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OfflineMycoAu
5thKingdomCome
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Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Vitamin C injections slow cancer in mice: study [Re: lines]
    #8740726 - 08/07/08 08:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Ascorbate research is nothing new.  There have been plenty of analogues of Vit. C produced and tested.  Many of them are safe and practical cures and/or treatments for a variety of ailments.  Mega-doses of Vit. C have been administered to humans with little side effects and MANY benefits. 

Such an under-researched and under-funded area.

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