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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #892718 - 09/19/02 08:02 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

To see the universe as a conscious entity unto its self, is not something that needs to be taught. Its an understanding that's acquired through observation.




and to my observation, I see no evidence of consciousness outside of neurons.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Anonymous

Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893040 - 09/19/02 10:55 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Reductionism?


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: ]
    #893059 - 09/19/02 11:00 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

Reductionism?




asking or telling?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineCleverName
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #893064 - 09/19/02 11:01 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

the unspeakable tao


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Anonymous

Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893086 - 09/19/02 11:06 AM (19 years, 4 days ago)

I was implying that your explanation fell err to reductionism.  How do you juxtapose your idea that consciousness is nothing but neurons against other evidence that leads us to think otherwise.  I am curious as to your position on this.  Are you a logical positivist?  What is your take on determinism?  Soft or Hard?  Light or Dark?  With or without cream? :wink:

I can never be totally sirius.

Cheers, 


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: cosmic_clown]
    #893349 - 09/19/02 12:38 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

OK so what happened before God was born? anything? If so then why is she so important?



god was not born... god was ALWAYS there, and will always be... always... ALL-WAYS... that is the beauty of it...
In reply to:

I'm not telling you your beliefs are wrong. this isn't about your beliefs. it's about poor self-expression.
I'm telling you it pisses me off when people try to express their ideas about the world and can only come up with the word "god" to explain something that is entirely un-god-like. (but is amazingly Tao-like.)



it is not god-like according to YOUR take and YOUR image of god... for me i am not "reducing existance to a simple term like god" i am expanding the standard image of him/her... because god IS and WAS everything all along... the ones that decided to make god so simple and meaningless were our ancestors... so they could control the masses...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: ]
    #893452 - 09/19/02 01:25 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

I was implying that your explanation fell err to reductionism. How do you juxtapose your idea that consciousness is nothing but neurons against other evidence that leads us to think otherwise.




please show me this evidence? personal "revelation" due to mind-altering chemicals doesn't count in my book.




I am curious as to your position on this. Are you a logical positivist? What is your take on determinism? Soft or Hard? Light or Dark? With or without cream?




I don't know what a "logical positivist" is, frankly.

determinism as in "free will vs. determinism" as mentioned in the other thread?
I don't believe free will exists.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #893476 - 09/19/02 01:38 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

it is not god-like according to YOUR take and YOUR image of god... for me i am not "reducing existance to a simple term like god" i am expanding the standard image of him/her... because god IS and WAS everything all along... the ones that decided to make god so simple and meaningless were our ancestors... so they could control the masses... 




god concepts developed, as far as I can determine, as explanations for what we desired to know but had no way to really find out. "controlling the masses" was something that came later; people with power taking advantage of religon and exploiting human fears.
I'm growing tired of even talking to you because you're insistent on calling what's very obviously your own version of Tao "god". you're also insistent on holding onto your ideas for dear life though you can't prove them to anyone or yourself. I find it annoying. but many people find the way I go about things annoying too :smile:


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893523 - 09/19/02 02:09 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

hmmm so your telling me that you have the explanations for those things our ancestors wanted to know?
and well, maybe i can't prove my ideas to anyone... but i don't need to... the last one i need to prove them to is myself... i just KNOW them from deep within my heart to be true... and fact is, you can't prove your ideas either... and you can't prove me wrong... and you happen to know that... cuz if you could prove me wrong, you would do it, and not grow tired of talking to me  :grin:
Quote:

because you're insistent on calling what's very obviously your own version of Tao "god". 


and you're insisting on calling my version of god "Tao"...  :laugh:


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Edited by Lozt Soul (09/19/02 02:10 PM)


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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893537 - 09/19/02 02:19 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

and to my observation, I see no evidence of consciousness outside of neurons.

We obviously see things differently. 
What makes a human body function. The entity that occupies it. What is that entity,  no one knows, at least no one that can give positive proof. Does that mean we don't exist. (I mean as a conscious entity, not as a body.) 

please show me this evidence? personal "revelation" due to mind-altering chemicals doesn't count in my book

Well then your in the wrong forum.  :smirk:

  I don't believe free will exists.

We might just agree on something? Maybe.  :grin:

 


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #893558 - 09/19/02 02:33 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

What makes a human body function.




gee, maybe, complex chemical and electric reactions?
at least that's the only thing that we can all observe together and agree upon. it's the only thing that can be verified in any way resembling "objective"
and such things are the only ideas I hold onto


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #893565 - 09/19/02 02:40 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

so your telling me that you have the explanations for those things our ancestors wanted to know?





the sun rises and sets because the earth orbits the sun.
rain forms in the sky through changes in temperature resulting in condensation.
the seasons change because the earth is tilted on its axis.
+100 other answers.
and now that those primitive questions are answered, and as a species we have an expanded worldview(universeview?) we have even bigger questions. are we to make the mistake of generations past and say "goddidit" to appease ourselves, or go out and try to the best of our ability to find the answers to those questions? we've accomplished a lot more than I believe anyone expected. I think there's only progress from here.


In reply to:

i just KNOW them from deep within my heart to be true...




so you have faith.
faith is of no value to me

In reply to:

and fact is, you can't prove your ideas either



but I don't hold such ideas as truths.



--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893696 - 09/19/02 03:38 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

gee, maybe, complex chemical and electric reactions?

If a human body walks across a room. The physical action can be explained. But what made it walk. Without the entity which inhabits the body, it would simply fall down.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #893699 - 09/19/02 03:39 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

true indeed


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #893760 - 09/19/02 04:10 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

In reply to:

the entity which inhabits the body




you mean the brain?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893842 - 09/19/02 04:50 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

you mean the brain?

hahahahahaha  Now that's funny.  :grin:

If you honestly believe that a lump of flesh is responsible for the self.  Then you'll never grasp the concept of god being all that is. 


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #893848 - 09/19/02 04:54 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

If you honestly believe that a lump of flesh is responsible for the self....




are you implying that  it is not?
if so, please provide some evidence that that is so.
also: please read up on some neuroscience.


Quote:

Then you'll never grasp the concept of god being all that is. 




I "grasp" the concept, trust me. it's Tao  :smile:



--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893932 - 09/19/02 05:31 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

Science is not always correct, the earth was flat once remember.
This is an assumption, but i'd say you believe that death is the end. But if you don't then what lives on after death.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #893951 - 09/19/02 05:43 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

erm. the earth was never determined flat by the scientific method.
that was the speculation of certain religion's creation myths. people tried to justify it somehow but it wasn't really science. but you didn't answer my question. and that doesn't mean you shouldn't read up on science just because scientists can sometimes be false. their conclusions are slightly more valid, in my opinion, than those of a drugged up punkass hippie  :tongue:


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #893967 - 09/19/02 05:57 PM (19 years, 4 days ago)

I can't prove what i think, neither can anyone disprove it. My ideas are simply that, ideas. If you can only contemplate that which can be proven by others, then you lack freedom to think for your self.


Edited by jayson (09/19/02 05:59 PM)


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