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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #891398 - 09/18/02 04:55 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

To see the universe and all that there is as an intelligent being, is not something that can be described simply. A blind man can never know what its like to see, unless he is given sight. I'm not saying your blind, just that i lack the ability to describe the concept.






excuse me?
to see the universe as an intelligent being simply requires a shift in perspective and changing of definitions. so why are you calling it "logical" if it's just a matter of opinion?


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #891426 - 09/18/02 05:05 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Logic is a mater of opinion.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #891440 - 09/18/02 05:12 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

um
no
see
this guy
aristotle
um
he kinda put down the rules to logic
and um
unless you're talking about computer codes
that's what is meant by "logic"
now um
since "the universe is an intelligent being" is a statement that can neither be proven nor disproven at this point, given standard definitions of the words used, it has no basis whatsoever in logic, and is merely a matter of opinion. if given explanations for why you *think* the universe is an intellligent being, then it's stil just a matter of opinion, because you must use your own personal definitions, got it?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #891499 - 09/18/02 05:37 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

That's not my definition.
Its logical to me that i have legs so that i can walk. Does it have to be scientifically explained, and proven for it to be logical.
What i see as obviously logical, others may see as delusional. It really boils down to perspective. Once i could not conceive god as being a reality. If i herd the word mentioned, the first thing i thought of was DICK HEADS. The mushrooms changed my perspective over time, so now i sit on the other side of the fence. Sure there's a lot of wacoes on this side, but there's some very wise people as well.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #891618 - 09/18/02 06:33 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

*shrug*
I do not have "spiritual" experiences on mushrooms
I have "intensely personal, meaningful" experiences on mushrooms.
and though I'm not saying that you are one of these people, I'm rather tired of folks who run around as if they've acquired some sort of ultimate wisdom about the universe or spiritual matters through psychedelic drug use. drugs change the way your brain functions. there's no evidence they open up some pathway to the "supernatural". things experienced on psychedelics are also reported by epileptics to happen during seizures

has anyone here read "the dream drugstore" by J. Allan Hobson? it explains, in layman's terms, but in great detail, the neuroscience behind what happens to your brain when you're on drugs/dreaming, etc. and how psychedelics interact with your brain's own chemicals. I just bought it, and haven't read much of it yet, but it looks to be a very promising good read.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #891635 - 09/18/02 06:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Words are such a poor way to try and communicate the Unspeakable.......


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Adamist]
    #891651 - 09/18/02 06:48 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

Words are such a poor way to try and communicate the Unspeakable.......





oooo wow how incredibly deep and mystical of you?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Anonymous

Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #891760 - 09/18/02 07:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

"I do not have "spiritual" experiences on mushrooms."

That may be true but you sure are entertaining to read.

In case you were wondering. :wink:

Welcome, you've got mail.

Could you spell your name for me?

Thanks and Cheers, 


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: ]
    #891782 - 09/18/02 07:49 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

Welcome, you've got mail.

Could you spell your name for me?






eh?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Anonymous

Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #891820 - 09/18/02 08:11 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Looks like that's the first question you don't have an answer for.

Be proud.

You write interesting stuff. I enjoy reading it.

Stick around Albino it's good to have you here.

Or should I just call you Jesus?

Cheers,


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: ]
    #891844 - 09/18/02 08:18 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

How about AJ?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Sclorch]
    #891852 - 09/18/02 08:27 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

How about AJ? 




hehe...

too male :wink:


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #891873 - 09/18/02 08:39 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I do not have "spiritual" experiences on mushrooms
I have "intensely personal, meaningful" experiences on mushrooms.  [b

What's the difference.  :confused:
Spirituality = science of the self.
Of course wisdom can be obtained through mushroom use. You your self said that you have "intensely personal, meaningful experiences." If their meaningful then they must have provided wisdom.

I'm rather tired of folks who run around as if they've acquired some sort of ultimate wisdom about the universe or spiritual matters through psychedelic drug use. 

I can understand that. " When you know something with absolute certainty, then  you have become blind, and can learn no more."  A thought from one of my personal experiences.

A visionary experience doesn't have to provide correct assumptions to provide wisdom. So people get it wrong, so what, that doesn't prove anything. Kids get things wrong in school all the time, but that doesn't mean school is useless.

] Words are such a poor way to try and communicate the Unspeakable.......  

Dead right.  :grin:
 


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: jayson]
    #891942 - 09/18/02 09:06 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I do not have "spiritual" experiences on mushrooms
I have "intensely personal, meaningful" experiences on mushrooms. [b
---------------
What's the difference.
Spirituality = science of the self.




the difference being there's all these people running around like they've talked to god or they've come to some amazing realization - such as "god IS existence". wtf? why the fuck bother? why not just see existence as what it is, amazing and infinitely complex and beautiful(though beauty is a matter of opinion but I don't think anyone here is going to disagree with me on that one :tongue: ) rather than tacking some primitive label on it that has NOTHING to do with the experience you're having. too many people have "intensely personal" experiences and interpret them as "godly" because it's such a popular idea which permeates just about every area of our society. when you hear "god god god" all  the time it becomes part of your brain's basis for conceptualizing things. do you think a group of  isolated individuals who had never encountered any religion, if given psychedelic drugs would form ideas about anything having to do with "gods" in the same frequency that people in our society do? of course we can't say that a few of them wouldn't have such vivid imaginations to come up with the idea of a god on their own, because, hey, it had to come from somewhere to begin with, right? but surelyy some would also come up with concepts like nothing we've ever heard of before. perhaps something we can't eve concieve of at present time, due to the limits our cultural exposure has placed on our minds. but these concepts would indeed be incommunicable. I too bear that annoying burden of concepts which don't translate to words very easily, but hell, these come to me sober. I wouldn't even try to describe what a trip experience is like for myself, but it doesn't have anything to do with god. it has to do with emotions and sensations that can't be communicated, through conventional language, so why bother trying when conventional language only gives a perverted representation of the idea*? tripping is a very personal experience, and I think it should stay that way. know what you think. love your ideas. love your own mind. but recognize its limits, and recognize that you can only form ideas(usually) from what's already present in your conceptual-vocab. tripping is rather like dreaming. and what a lovely dream.

*and I always keep in mind that such ideas are merely ideas, not testable hypotheses, or holy revelations. if they were such I'd be elated as I'd have something better to do than sit here running my mouth(fingers?)
and since everyone can have vastly different trip experiences, how can such experiences ever be held to be true by anyone? bob "realizes" existence is god. bill "realizes" that llfe is meaningless. jane "realizes" that socks hold the meaning of life. wtf? I don't like to hold my strange-ideas as anything other than a nice idea.(or a bad one, if that's the case)

I'm rambling too much and I've probably left a few points out, but whatever, I've been awake for like, 19 hours or something. *dies*



--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



Edited by Albino_Jesus (09/18/02 09:28 PM)


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Offlinecosmic_clown
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #892027 - 09/18/02 09:46 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Lozt Soul,

"ok... and this evolution just took place... just like that... wow boom a conscious race was created... thank happenstance... that is mathematically not possible..."

lots of stuff isn't mathematically possible yet.... And besides.. if there's this "god" people speak of.. first of all, please define what its supposed to be, because by calling it simply "the creator," then its simply "existence."

And even if something/(ha:)someBODY created/summoned our entire "everything," then that something/somebody would have had to be created by something/somebody as well, right?

"No, it/he's just always been here."

Now you're getting a lot closer to mathematically impossible....

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
hmm?


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Offlinejayson
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #892102 - 09/18/02 10:15 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

do you think a group of isolated individuals who had never encountered any religion, if given psychedelic drugs would form ideas about anything having to do with "gods" 

God is simply a convenient name. To see the universe as a conscious entity unto its self, is not something that needs to be taught. Its an understanding that's acquired through observation.  I agree that many simply follow others ideas, look at most of the religious followers in the word. Most are simply afraid of being condemned, or something just as ridiculous.  So convince them selves that their religion will save them. Others just like to appear to know more than they really do. And there's those that try to make money out of others needs, so they fake it.
But to say that people that try to communicate their ideas to others are wrong for doing so is not right. There's people on this forum that seem to be genuinely trying to learn from each other. Trying to help others learn, and then there's the joy of just simply talking about the thing that interest them most.  :smile:

*and I always keep in mind that such ideas are merely ideas, not testable hypotheses, or holy revelations.

Yes, that's all i thought that was being posted back and forth, ideas.

and since everyone can have vastly different trip experiences, how can such experiences ever be held to be true by anyone? bob "realizes" existence is god. bill "realizes" that llfe is meaningless. jane "realizes" that socks hold the meaning of life. wtf? I don't like to hold my strange-ideas as anything other than a nice idea.(or a bad one, if that's the case

That which is a believe today, tomorrow becomes yesterdays idea. Its all a learning experience, and there's nothing wrong with sharing an experience.  :smile: 


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: cosmic_clown]
    #892371 - 09/19/02 01:41 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

eyerolling = arrogant ...
i never tried to push my beliefs on anyone... im merely stating what i think... but all of this eyerolling stuff makes me go wack  :crazy: ... it shows me that you think you are SOOOOOOOOO right and everytime you read one of my posts you go "oh no! not one of this nutcases again... when will they understand!" ...
what im trying to say is that i respect your opinion, and i respect that you are firm on what you believe... and im not trying to change your mind... so you should do the same with me... come to me without judgement... without thinking your beliefs are the RIGHT ones... without rolling your eyes to what i have to say, and well have a much nicer conversation... a better exchange of ideas... try to open your minds a little...
and to your post: im not saying god created this... god merely changed her form to what we now see... and god split up in zillions of small parts (our souls) to experience the beauty of herself... (im consciously picturing god as a female in order to try and not lead you to the standard image of god)


--------------------


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #892376 - 09/19/02 01:48 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

tacking some primitive label on it that has NOTHING to do with the experience you're having


a lot of people will disagree with you there... do you really think that if those experiences had NOTHING to do with god there would be a SPIRITUALITY and philosophy forum on this page? hmmmm... little hole in the theory there...
and the godgodgod thing.... it might be that we have an image of the existance of god burned into our mind... but the funny thing is, when somebody has a spiritual experience on shrooms the truth he sees and feels mostly differs A LOT from the preconceved notion of god he had in his mind... look at rune for instance... read his earlier posts in this thread and what happened to him on a level 5 trip... he wasn't even asking for what happened to him... it just hit him in the face... and it was good (although good is a relative term)...
and once again, before you try and prove me wrong... remember that there is no "right" or "wrong"... there is only "right" and "wrong" according to what you say you want to be or experience...


--------------------


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #892483 - 09/19/02 04:48 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

do you really think that if those experiences had NOTHING to do with god there would be a SPIRITUALITY and philosophy forum on this page? hmmmm




spirituality and philosophy involves a lot more than god-concepts.

In reply to:

so you should do the same with me... come to me without judgement... without thinking your beliefs are the RIGHT ones...




I'm not telling you your beliefs are wrong. this isn't about your beliefs. it's about poor self-expression.
I'm telling you it pisses me off when people try to express their ideas about the world and can only come up with the word "god" to explain something that is entirely un-god-like. (but is amazingly Tao-like.)


In reply to:

god is a convenient label




and a lame one, in my opinion.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



Edited by Albino_Jesus (09/19/02 04:56 AM)


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Offlinecosmic_clown
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #892579 - 09/19/02 06:27 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

LS,

"and to your post: im not saying god created this... god merely changed her form to what we now see... and god split up in zillions of small parts (our souls) to experience the beauty of herself... (im consciously picturing god as a female in order to try and not lead you to the standard image of god)"

OK so what happened before God was born? anything? If so then why is she so important?

All I'm saying is if there's a "higher power," then that higher-power has to have come from somewhere as well.


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