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OfflineFliquid
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: infidelGOD]
    #878647 - 09/11/02 06:22 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you for your input.


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #878671 - 09/11/02 06:34 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Agression once again, more prove that the religious lie mostly brings forth acts of agression.

Thank you for getting frustrated about my opinion.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Calen]
    #879767 - 09/12/02 06:01 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Jung said that??!! Please give a reference to his quote and assumption because it's groundless. He study everything from UFOs to Tibetan mysticism. The archetypes he created was partly based from Astrology. MBTI is the derivative of such as claimed by the progenitors. Saying organized religions "did not meet the demands of science" is just groundless analysis of Jung.

I said I think Jung said that, it could have been Freud, or someone completely different. Whoever did say it, they can make an analysis of religious people but we can't make one of them? Heh.

Do you? No.

I really don't know terribly much about Jung, although I would like to. Does that really matter, though? It gets rather annoying when people (of all intelligence) tell me I have no intelligence because I am a Muslim. Given that, Freud was biased by his hatred for religion I'm assuming.

You told me out-right in PM you're "arrogant." Therefore, the theory of Freud applies to you. Actually, everything you said so far applies to "A beleiver who's arrogant"

Not every form of arrogance is the same. Now you're taking Freud's work out of context. ;p

So stop pissing on people who were contributors to society at large as a mean to assuage your beliefs.

Contributers? God knows how much disbelief Freud fueled in people. At one point I believe, Freud made up a theory about women and sexual abuse. He suggested women actually wanted to be abused. He was forced to withdraw the theory because his career was under fire for it. I'm not pissing on Freud/Jung at all. Just because they're respected (and dead) doesn't mean I can't challenge some of their opinions.

The funny thing about faith is that you're either biased with disbelief or biased with belief. Freud and Jung hit the nail on the head on alot of topics - but when it came to religion...death of intelligence? Give me a break. As if they knew the inner workings of every human who believes.

Fliquid wrote:
Agression once again, more prove that the religious lie mostly brings forth acts of agression.

Thank you for getting frustrated about my opinion.


You're the one getting frustrated/agro here, my friend - replying with a dialogue like that.


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Edited by Zahid (09/12/02 06:35 AM)


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #880265 - 09/12/02 11:29 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)



Lozt Soul:

My fucking god. You did that without the shroom? I congratulate thee.

I seriously think you should consider giving a lvl 5 trip a try, none the less. I say this only because it might give you a comparison to what you know now. You might also be interested in the way it is revealed, or how it actualy feels.

What i mean by that is, you can take your time and walk to the next city, and see the amazing landmark just the same as if i went in a ferrari. But driving down that straight highway at 170 MPH to get there might prove interesting.  :grin:



Anyway.  I never took the time to write a trip report. I just wrote my thoughts down in my online journal. You can check out the last post here:  http://www.livejournal.com/~kilmer
I never said anything about the physical happenings in that post, so i can make a brief description here.

Me and my gf had an empty house for long, and we prepared about 6.3 grams of good shroomies in a blender. This means it hit us very fast, very hard. The trip started very nice, lots of visuals, cool sounding music (Infected mushroom! =D ) etc. I somehow got on the floor, and the next thing i remember, is that i started going insane. I thought that me and my gf were 2 entities, going in a circle, never going to catch eachother. (i cant explain that.)  We started saying words out in question form, as if there was no point to them. i.e:  "money?"    .......thats the only one i can remember. My gf somehow wasnt getting hit as hard as me. i dont know why. I measured with an electronic scale. Neither of us ate anything before. But my questions were way more deeper, and i wasnt having fun. She was. I then started repeating "I dont know whats real anymore" "whats real!!" over and over. This is where i started to scare my gf.  I shot into the 'chaos' part of my trip, where i flalled my arms around wildly, kicking too. I managed to whack my gf pretty bad. I didnt even know it. =(  Anything i hit felt like the slightest bump.  She kept trying to assure me about things, but my mind was gone. I thought that her yelling at me was some 'tv show'. I got into the hallway, and managed to fly down the stairs on my back, and luckily my gf caught my head (i dont remember this). This is where i left the chaos part, and went into the 'death' state. It is also where i started 'throat-screaming' (screaming with yer teeth locked kinda) like mad. This went on for a while, and it was quite FUCKING HORRIBLE. After this somewhere, the truth came to me. And i was just awe struck. After being exposed to it for a while, i sat up, and laughed. I asked my gf if she knew the secret, but sadly.....i think i made her 'lose her buzz'.  She kinda had to snap back to reality once she saw i was going nuts. The strange part is.....even at that high of a dose, my visuals 'stopped' all together once the mind trip began. I didnt notice any melting walls or anything. The only visuals were those tiny rainbow swirls on things when i looked really close at objects. That doesnt justify visuals on 6.3 grams tho.
And i am now noticing how this little 'physical' summary has gotten not so little.
But anyway, It was a rough and scary ride, but i am so absolutely glad that it happened.

The only question now is, will i be able to re-visit that state again, and be able to 'handle it' now that i know what its like?



You should give it a try dude.  =] 


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Invisiblexnevermore
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Fliquid]
    #880311 - 09/12/02 12:05 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

My beliefs regarding the existance of God are simple: there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to believe in a God unless there is at least SOME empirical evidence pointing to the existance of one. And don't give me that faith bullshit, because faith is just an excuse to ignore reason. Faith is blind. Everyone is born an atheist. Everyone is an atheist by default. Until there is suffiecient reason to believe otherwise, everyone should remain that way.

I can't explain the world, I can't explain how life began, and I can't explain why we are here. But does this mean that God is the answer? No. I accept the fact that these questions can't be explained and probably never will be.

No one should have to prove that there is no God. That is impossible, just as it is impossible to prove that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy don't exist.


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- xnevermore


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: xnevermore]
    #880327 - 09/12/02 12:16 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I feel sad for you. Sad that you cannot look at something as simple (and complex )...simple relative to a human being's body-mind-spirit, and not REALIZE that the Creator of a coconut palm is INFINITELY greater than His creation. And that is just one, single, solitary, but LIVING creation! Empirical evidence???!!! Go look in the f**kin' mirror!!! WAKE UP!!!

"...Deaf, dumb and blind boy...he's in a quiet vibration land..."
- The Who


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblexnevermore
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #880342 - 09/12/02 12:28 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I feel sad for you.
Why? Because I use logic and reason rather than blind faith? Things many of you christians are very uncomfortable with.

I leave you with a quote by Thomas Jefferson:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one, he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."


--------------------
- xnevermore


Edited by xnevermore (09/12/02 12:29 PM)


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OfflineCalen
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Zahid]
    #880568 - 09/12/02 02:24 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I said I think Jung said that, it could have been Freud, or someone completely different. Whoever did say it, they can make an analysis of religious people but we can't make one of them? Heh.

Not Jung, not Freud. It was Robert Anton Wilson. Your rights? You do but that's not the point. Your incredulous analysis of Jung was dead wrong, but you make no apologies for it. You haven't even cited the reference of Jung's so-called 'analogy' ~ but having a knack for making one big **leap** of faith on your part. In an arena of realists, your argumens would be suspect of a smelly fish.

Not every form of arrogance is the same. Now you're taking Freud's work out of context. ;p

It has been proven to be within context. Arrogance is arrogance:

First, you can pick out the sexual contents of his theory (ie: Seduction, infantile sexuality, etc..), and you'll be left with the theoretical concepts of the ego, id, and superego. YOu have all 3 based on it. So it's fairly relevant because the basal components, in general, personify you. Unless you're alien, it might not apply to you. *smirk

And what happens when you have an ego?

Second, here, you said:
The logic of the disbeliever has an attachment to the ego, and thus the logic listens to the opinions of other people (be it a psychoanalysis of Sigmund Freud, or the man made miracle of science - their logic lies within the foolishness of humans).

Gee, that sounds like a xian thumping with the power of arrogance: "I know better than the rest of you, even !Freud!, because I'mmmm a believer and I'm (denial) not attached to the ego!"

Third, the amusing irony of it all is you chose to make assumptions about Freud's arrogance (references, please?) in: His "hatred for religion" and fueling disbelief. Your assumptions did have a kernel of truth about him. Freud's theories personify him. He was a one-track mind (uh, arrogant) bent on acknowledging his righteous theories. Sound like someone you know? Hmm?

Fourth, you said you're arrogant. No-brainer there.

As for the rest of your points, I'm not going to bother replying. Any person with an iota of intelligence will discover the misinformation you presented.


"leggo the ego" and have a nice day.


Edited by Calen (09/12/02 02:27 PM)


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OfflineHB
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Calen]
    #880699 - 09/12/02 03:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Everybody, before you post some angry inner thoughts regarding somebody else's post and why it's "wrong", take a look at Calen's signature. It might ease your posts a bit.


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Anonymous

Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Calen]
    #880779 - 09/12/02 04:44 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

To no one in particular:

Lotta shouting going on in here.

Cheers,


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OfflineFlusH
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: Fliquid]
    #880875 - 09/12/02 05:30 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I want to jump in here for a sec,
Fliquid wrote:
There is no god! People want to believe that there is a god, so they have a reason for existence.
But the only thing we really know (but that also is not for sure) is that we were generated by evolution just as the fish, birds, dogs, fly's and other creatures. Just because we have consciousness, doesn't mean we must have a leader called god that created us and everything. What i'm trying to say is that the first conscious people were scared because they did not understand. And that is a fact, look at people who never tried drugs. They have the most wrong points of view available. That's why they needed something that would always be there to protect and reward us. When we need it. And to justify something's. By saying its gods will...
----------------
God is what you make of it.  Everybody is entitled to their perspective.  I think God is a higher consciousness with a great sense of humor.  My proof of that would be the conversation in this thread.  :wink:  To bash somebody's perspective is showing ignorance on your behalf.
Peace :grin: 


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: RuNE]
    #881638 - 09/13/02 10:15 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

i didn't do it without the shroom... it was a big aid, but it was not the one that opened my eyes... i knew exactly where i was going all the time... and i enjoy taking the walk... the ferrari trips where only a kind of hitch-hike... and i know it is really interesting to take that ferrari, but i have to say that way includes a lot more dangers than the landmark watching walk... i have to be honest i don't know if i would manage a level 5 trip... i have had a level 4, and it was impressive, but scary as fucking hell... on a level 5 i don't know what would happen, especially after beeing caught in a 5 day nightmare of dxm... since which i have layed off of every drug, including weed and alcohol (never been much of an alc friend anyways)... my last shroom trip was on the 11th of august last year... well i know a few people who have achieved the state you describe on shrooms... i dunno if you have read "the psychedelic experience" by leary, jung and some others... it's based on the tibetan book of the dead and is a wonderful instruction for achieving ego-loss with psychedelics... you should read it... from that book for instance i know the reason you didn't have visuals when achieving enlightment on that 6.3g ... basically visuals are just noise in your head... the neverending flow of thoughts are represented visually through the optics you see... once you quite your mind, and just are.. you become beeing and stop thinking, therefore no visuals anymore... if you are interested in visiting that state again (and i know you are  :grin:) you should read that book.. and this time you will know exactly where you are going and what you are doing... and the best is you will maybe be able to keep that state after the experience...  :laugh:
im gonna read your thoughts now... take good care and be blessed!


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Offlinemirrorsaww
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: xnevermore]
    #881669 - 09/13/02 10:32 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to believe in a God unless there is at least SOME empirical evidence pointing to the existance of one.

As the existence or otherwise of God is a metaphysical question, if you are looking for someone to prove God by experiment then that obviously isn't going to happen.

There is much reasoned evidence for the existence of God (and for atheism) if you take the time to read some philosophy. (Greek / Enlightenment era / Whatever else) Conclusive proof of God? No there isn't.  Is reason then on the side of atheism? No it isn't.

faith is just an excuse to ignore reason.

you are such a brilliant and original thinker! :grin:

(but you don't understand faith)

Everyone is born an atheist.

Some people would say we are born as inherently spiritual. I imagine you would just dismiss that as a foolish and weak need to believe...


 


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: xnevermore]
    #881837 - 09/13/02 12:02 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

My reponse is in my 'No God - No Peace' post.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #883493 - 09/14/02 07:45 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)



includes a lot more dangers than the landmark watching walk...

Yes. Yes it does. *still has scars on lower back*

Too bad you've stopped everything because of DXM. I only stopped dxm because of dxm. =P

That book sounds interesting dude. Think i'll check it out.

Lates. =]



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~Happy sailing~


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Fliquid]
    #883498 - 09/14/02 07:47 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineCalen
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: ]
    #886339 - 09/16/02 07:07 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

Was I? I'm just trolling the troll, in a matter of speaking. I'll let someone else do the honor.

I'm done like dinner.





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OfflineCalen
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: In(di)go]
    #886342 - 09/16/02 07:08 PM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I'm wondering if there's a level 6, unclassified and very uncommon? I've never came across anyone who can do experiences 'transference' to a recipient while under the influence like me. An anomaly I have yet to discover a reason for it. Except when I'm hitting Level 5, blissed out, I thought "why don't I give this to someone?" Maybe, it's the intention. Then again the intention's success rate wasn't 100%.




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OfflineFliquid
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: xnevermore]
    #887143 - 09/17/02 03:47 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

They shall still not understand... My friend it is useless to explain... At least some of us understand...


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OfflineFliquid
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Re: When will you all understand? There is no god! [Re: FlusH]
    #887151 - 09/17/02 03:53 AM (19 years, 4 months ago)

I wasn't bashing shit.

In reply to:

To bash somebody's perspective is showing ignorance on your behalf.





Making my point of view on it, is not bashing somebody else.

Still calm, still breathing...


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