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Offlineskaterickets
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The Science In Flushes
    #8718462 - 08/03/08 01:05 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Hey guys, I may not be an expert mycologist but I know the basics of it. In this post I have both a question, and a theory.

The question is, how exactly do flushes work? Is it simply that there can grow more mushrooms because after the first flush has grown there is still more material in the mycellium that allows more mushrooms to grow after the first flush happened? Maybe the already grown mushrooms drop the spores and the cycle starts over again. After a while however I realized that this was unlikely because of 2 reasons. The time between one flush and the other for the process to start over again, and the mycellium to obtain its nutrients, and secondly, there is no more material for the mycellium to use! Most of it has already been used.

This however led me to my theory.

Imagine the mushrooms is fully grown. The veil breaks and the spores are released. Where do the spores land? There is no wind unless you're using an outdoor grow. The spores fall right into your bulk substrate or casing. However it can't grow, or very little will, the nutrients have already been used by the previous mycellium. So then I thought, what if right after the veil breaks another layer of substrate or casing is added at the bottom? The spores will fall at the top of whatever you placed at the bottom and germinate from there using up the nutrients from the material you just placed. Therefore it's like starting your grow all over again, or at least making a much stronger flush.

Those are my thoughts guys. Feel free to comment on the question and/or my theory.

Edited by skaterickets (08/03/08 01:26 AM)

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OfflineDesertWolf
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: skaterickets]
    #8718492 - 08/03/08 01:21 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Oh man I cant wait to see the responses to this one.


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Those that govern democracy, Nothing but lies and hypocrisy, Created by those who pretend to heal you, Bearers of the cross who try to control and conceal you, And they will die before it reveals to you, What you haven't been programmed to see.

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Offlinegethyn
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: DesertWolf]
    #8718513 - 08/03/08 01:35 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

only mother nature can pull that off brother . :wink:


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Offlineskaterickets
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: gethyn]
    #8718521 - 08/03/08 01:39 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Um?

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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: skaterickets]
    #8718635 - 08/03/08 03:43 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Why would you add a layer of substrate for the spores to land on? By the time they germinated the mycelium underneath the new subtrate layer would already work its way up and colonize the new layer.

This shouldn't be in advanced mycology. This should be in mushroom cultivation.


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Offlinedstark
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #8718929 - 08/03/08 08:56 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

After 1st flush not all of the nutrients were used!
There can come 2 more flushes with big fruits and these flushes almost as the 1st (sometimes the 2n even bigger)

Also you dont need to substrat layers on your bulks when the vails drop spores :/ thats useless, you just can pick the flush and add sunstrat. The myc. will colonize it- its much more faster then spore that droped... spores germination takes about 5 days, why letting them germinate when you you have your bulk fully colonized with myc :smile:

Do some readings mate...


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: skaterickets]
    #8719010 - 08/03/08 09:38 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Friend, it has been my (limited) experience that after the veils break and spores drop contamination usually occurs.  I try to pick 'em right before the veil breaks (sometimes the little bastards catch me sleeping though).  You could always flip the substrate and the other side will often pin nicely.  Oh, and if you're running into any contam. probs after first or second flush you could put them outdoors in a secure location.  I've even tossed some seriously contaminated substrate into a compost pile outside and (unexpectedly) was rewarded with multiple flushes of mushrooms.

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Offlineskaterickets
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #8719620 - 08/03/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlimeyGrimey said:
Why would you add a layer of substrate for the spores to land on? By the time they germinated the mycelium underneath the new subtrate layer would already work its way up and colonize the new layer.




You're actually right on this, for some reason I didn't see that as an option.

Quote:

This shouldn't be in advanced mycology. This should be in mushroom cultivation.




I'll have to disagree here though. My first question probably requires a bit of knowledge that goes beyond basic mycology. There are far worse posts on the forum anyways.

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Offlineskaterickets
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: dstark]
    #8719645 - 08/03/08 12:52 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dstark said:
After 1st flush not all of the nutrients were used!
There can come 2 more flushes with big fruits and these flushes almost as the 1st (sometimes the 2n even bigger)




I said MOST of the nutrients were used. Which makes me wonder why the hell are 2nd flushes even bigger sometimes than 1st.

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Offlineskaterickets
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8719667 - 08/03/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Friend, it has been my (limited) experience that after the veils break and spores drop contamination usually occurs.  I try to pick 'em right before the veil breaks (sometimes the little bastards catch me sleeping though).  You could always flip the substrate and the other side will often pin nicely.  Oh, and if you're running into any contam. probs after first or second flush you could put them outdoors in a secure location.  I've even tossed some seriously contaminated substrate into a compost pile outside and (unexpectedly) was rewarded with multiple flushes of mushrooms.




That's pretty interesting, I usually see most growers wait  until the caps open. Do you know why there is more chance of contamination once the veil breaks?
Oh and great idea about flipping the substrate. Never heard of that but will definitely will give it a try.
Interesting teks Al. :wink:

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: skaterickets]
    #8719743 - 08/03/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

In all honesty, I was also living in a cottage that was built in that late 1940's to early 1950's.  It was built entirely too weathertight and had poor ventilation.  Both the attic and basement had scary black mold that seemed to laugh off my repeated bleach bombings.  I moved out after I started developing breathing issues.  I did successfully have some mazatepecs (sp?) and G.T.s.  They did start contaminating after the spores dropped on the substrate, so I then started picking right before the veils broke.  I had serious contam issues so much of my efforts I put in a compost pile outside...

The outdoor compost heap consisted of household foodstuff that was rotting as well as a couple bags of Coast of Maine Lobster Compost.  I mixed it up and ended up will bigger mushies and far superior flushes than inside.  A skunk ate some one night and ended up tripping balls in a trash can....

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OfflineCerius
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Re: The Science In Flushes [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8720273 - 08/03/08 03:53 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

This would be a bad idea for two reasons:

#1: The spores that drop would take at least a MONTH to start producing fruit. It needs to grow through stages to get to this point, and it takes time.

#2: Most importantly, even IF the spores started to grow off of the new nutrients, it's highly unlikely they would survive. In any grow, the strongest and most agressive strains of mycellium take over the substrate. Two or three at the most, but we use cloning to focus on a single strain. To get back to my point, the spores that dropped could indeed have stronger strains than your current one and get a foot hold, but they would be eaten by the already established mycellium grown throughout the substrate.




Good idea, but personally, it's far more interesting to dream of "hydro" shrooms. A substrate in which you figure out a way to replenish it, without destroying the mycellium in the process.


I've come up with a few ideas, that all revolve around the same process:
Think of all essential nutrients, saturate a liquid with it.. like an LC and add it too the substrate.

MonsterMitch has had some success with "dunking" but it's a farcry from the idea of constant flushes.

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