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OfflineThe_Greater_God
Some dude
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 26
Loc: Southwest region
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ?
    #871144 - 09/09/02 04:38 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

On my last trip, I got a lot of insight into the inner workings of everything, and at one point in the trip, I proceeded to tell my sitters how reality worked, but I could not find pen/paper and I lost the vision I held. I know this idea of using pyschoactive compounds which alter ones perception or consciousness to discover things is not new, but I would like to get everyones take on it, and their own personal experience. I feel we have much to gain by paying close attention to the things we are made aware of while in an altered state of consciousness.

A lot of what I , and many others like me, know about computers and technology today is from experimentation, now I would like to experiment with reality. Whatever methods, tools, anything you've encountered which made you aware or gave you insight into how reality works would be apperciated dearly.


Thank you


--------------------
Reality continues to stand in the way of what I truly want to do


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871146 - 09/09/02 04:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

they halped me i think, speeded up processes and what not, but thats just me, maybe in some folk pyschoactives are no good


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 65,046
Loc: 9th Dimension
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871149 - 09/09/02 04:47 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The next step is to maintain the inner insight while sober so that information is readily available..mental trip
dmt during a mushroom trip is nice  :laugh: 


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871155 - 09/09/02 04:51 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What you speak of is the greatest illusion of psychedelics. The truth, the enlightenment, is almost within grasp. One can taste it and feel it, yet one comes back empty-handed time and time again - endlessly chasing the will-o-the-wisp.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineThe_Greater_God
Some dude
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 26
Loc: Southwest region
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: Swami]
    #871160 - 09/09/02 04:54 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Could you expand on that ? Comming up empty handed ?


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Reality continues to stand in the way of what I truly want to do


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871323 - 09/09/02 09:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes the next step is to get to these revelatory points without the use of outside chemical catalysts... Learning to meditate is a good way to start, lucid dreaming / astral projection is also a good method to explore reality.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Offlineakyouser_oner
unclefuckerextrordinaire

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 546
Loc: standing in the shadows a...
Last seen: 14 years, 11 days
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: Shroomism]
    #871349 - 09/09/02 09:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

like Ram Das said in Be Here Now, the LSD would take him to heaven, but no matter what, it couldn't be maintained through drugs. it just gave you the vision of what things are/should be. maintaining it is something that is a serious life choice involving much learning and discipline...


--------------------
-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,680
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: Swami]
    #871409 - 09/09/02 10:46 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

empty handed..? have you never returned from a trip with a greater understanding of something? i always seem to. everyone else i know usually seems to. not everything is an illusion, many things yes, but even the illusions can help you understand something that is real...



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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
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Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871425 - 09/09/02 10:57 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Good post.

I think psychoactives CAN assist in deciphering reality, but I don't think the effects of drugs are in any way divine or magical. They are just chemicals that cause your brain to work in a different way for a while. This can create, as Swami said, the illusion of some divine guiding light affecting you through the drugs, but it's just your brain being pushed around.

The insight from psychoactives comes from the ability to view the environment around you from two (or more) different mental angles (sober and drug-affected), so that you can better gauge just what it is you are seeing. It's the same principle as seeing with two eyes instead of one. With one eye closed, an index card in the foreground can look to be the same size and distance as a billboard in the background, but when viewed from two different angles (two eyes), one can immediately dispell the illusion that they are the same size.

Perpetual sobriety is seeing the world with only ONE eye; to think that the 'sober experience' the 'real' reality is presumtuous. I think our default state of mind is no more or less delusional than a drug-induced state. We're just not as used to functioning in drug states so it can feel debilitating. But I think every state of mind, both drug-induced states and otherwise, can let us see reality from a unique perspective, allowing us access to insight we are normally denied.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871473 - 09/09/02 11:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You arn't going to maintain any permanent version of reality in this society except the one the masters allow us. Doesn't matter if you are the greatest zen student on earth if you have to go to a day job and work 14 hours a day with people hassling you, it ain't gonna last. You arn't going to be the Buddha at the end of a long shitty day in the office. The only permanent reality that exists for westerners is chasing money.

It's like the story of the greatest meditation master in the whole of India, worshipped as the most divine being alive, when his students took him down from his cave and into a busy town for the first time, someone bumped into him and he lost his temper.

Unless you're going to live in a monastery in an environment designed to support you in your meditation forget about "permanently" achieving any state of mind. The states we reach through psilocybin are gratuitous graces. They give us hope and insight into the true meaning of life. As our everyday life gradually drains us of hope they exist as shining beacons to the truth.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: Swami]
    #871486 - 09/09/02 11:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What you speak of is the greatest illusion of psychedelics. The truth, the enlightenment, is almost within grasp. One can taste it and feel it, yet one comes back empty-handed time and time again - endlessly chasing the will-o-the-wisp.

This is so far removed from my experience. I've always found the exact opposite to this.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871590 - 09/09/02 12:25 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Whatever methods, tools, anything you've encountered which made you aware or gave you insight into how reality works would be apperciated dearly.

I hear those Koosh balls work pretty good.


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OfflineThe_Greater_God
Some dude
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 26
Loc: Southwest region
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: Xlea321]
    #871782 - 09/09/02 08:29 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

Unless you're going to live in a monastery in an environment designed to support you in your meditation forget about "permanently" achieving any state of mind. The states we reach through psilocybin are gratuitous graces. They give us hope and insight into the true meaning of life. As our everyday life gradually drains us of hope they exist as shining beacons to the truth.





My post was not about devoting ones life to meditation, rather it was about increasing awareness, so that some of our greatest questions concerning reality may be answered.


--------------------
Reality continues to stand in the way of what I truly want to do


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #871949 - 09/09/02 09:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I know what you mean, but can you really increase awareness when you are working 8 hours a day in an office? Isn't having awareness in a culture like that only going to increase your anguish? Surely the people most likely to achieve inner peace in the west are those happiest being selfish, ignorant and not having any "awareness" whatsoever.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineThe_Greater_God
Some dude
Registered: 08/24/02
Posts: 26
Loc: Southwest region
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: Xlea321]
    #872135 - 09/09/02 11:22 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Well alex, have you ever heard the phrase " be in this world, but not of it" ? I don't believe that you have to work an 8 hour job and do things you do not desire to in order to prosper. But who says that could stand in the way of discovery and for lack of a better term, enlightenment ?


--------------------
Reality continues to stand in the way of what I truly want to do


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: The_Greater_God]
    #872361 - 09/09/02 01:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Well if you can find a way of combining the two opposites of making money and finding enlightenment then you're very special.

It's hard to devote yourself to making money for 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week and then do 20 minutes meditation a night and think you're on the road to enlightenment. Maybe if we worked 20 minutes a day and meditated 10 hours it would be easier...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Xlea321]
    #872383 - 09/09/02 01:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: ]
    #872417 - 09/09/02 01:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yep - that's why they have monasteries. It's no use having a profound experience and then having to go and sack someone in the office. You need a loving supportive environment to capitalise on the insightful experiences you have.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinechrispc
Durban, SouthAfrica (Soon)

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 254
Loc: London, UK
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #872792 - 09/09/02 05:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

I think psychoactives CAN assist in deciphering reality, but I don't think the effects of drugs are in any way divine or magical. They are just chemicals that cause your brain to work in a different way for a while. This can create, as Swami said, the illusion of some divine guiding light affecting you through the drugs, but it's just your brain being pushed around.





Yes but making your brain work this way might be the catalyst for these divine or mystical truths/understanding.


--------------------
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our
thoughts."

- Buddha in the Dhammapada -

ChrisC


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: Can pyschoactives assist in decyphering reality ? [Re: chrispc]
    #874081 - 09/10/02 08:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That's exactly what I meant.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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