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zouden
Neuroscientist


Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: thepaintingaccid]
#8722770 - 08/04/08 03:52 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Agreed. But on the other hand, batteries take longer to charge than hydrogen, and have limited lifetimes.
Personally I think biodiesel is the way to go, because it requires absolutely no modification to the distribution infrastructure and we have millions of diesel cars and trucks already on the road.
I used to work on hydrogen production as an alternative fuel, but now I firmly believe biodiesel is superior.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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thepaintingaccid
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: zouden]
#8722831 - 08/04/08 04:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well that also depends on what form of biodiesel. Ethanol is one of our worst blunders to date. And i do agree that batteries have a limited lifetime and take longer to charge than to refill a tank but with batteries a new infrastructure isn't needed and people have the option and capability to plug into any wall outlet. with the technology available today a single full charge could run you 3-500 miles before recharging. Sounds good to me. Ultimately we need to improve our methods of obtaining renewable energy such as solar and wind power that way we won't be relying on something finite(in our lifetime) and lessen the impact on the environment.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: thepaintingaccid]
#8723904 - 08/04/08 12:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
thepaintingaccid said: Electric cars have already been developed to the point where it rivals and surpasses the performance and capabilities of gas powered vehicles.
Do you have a link to this electric car that rivals and surpasses the performance and capabilities of gas powered vehicles? Youre not talking about the tesla roadster are you?
Quote:
zouden said: At the moment batteries are slightly better than hydrogen but if the hydride storage tank comes to fruition, hydrogen will become a far better alternative to batteries.
Is this hydride storage tank a solid state thing? Do you have a link to anything about this?
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zouden
Neuroscientist


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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: DieCommie]
#8725200 - 08/04/08 04:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm sure I can dig something up (I'm getting ready for work now). Basically rather than just compressing the hydrogen into a tank, they put a metallic 'foam' into the tank, which provides a large surface area for the hydrogen to cling too. The tank can then hold more hydrogen with less pressure.
The way I see it, without this technology, we can't store hydrogen with comparable energy density to gasoline. Compressing it into a tank is extremely energy-expensive (and makes the tanks more dangerous).
Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_hydride there's an even better article that lists the various technologies. None are really good enough yet. But the article describes what they need to be 'good enough'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
Edited by zouden (08/04/08 04:48 PM)
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thepaintingaccid
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: zouden]
#8726253 - 08/04/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not referring to the Tesla electric vehicle but am saying the technology is already here. We have adequate electric motors that perform and batteries that hold charges equaling hundreds of miles driving. We have the technology we just need to improve the way we obtain electricity from renewable energies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
And yah I don't see hydrogen as a better option because of the hurdles we have to jump when we could go a more direct route w/ pure electric.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: thepaintingaccid]
#8726435 - 08/04/08 08:39 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Come on man... I didnt ask for a wikipedia article about that old movie...
I assume you know of no car that rivals and surpasses the performance and capabilities of gas powered vehicles?
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thepaintingaccid
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: DieCommie]
#8727319 - 08/05/08 12:52 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yah man i understand. I didn't search the www for an article but that movie shows that the technology is available for use now. And it is being implemented in some vehicles already w/ all electric modifications. I just don't see the use in researching hydrogen when we can go strait to electricity. Its far simpler. Renewable energy - batteries - electric motors. And the infrastructure for electricity is already available.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: DieCommie]
#8727336 - 08/05/08 01:02 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Come on man... I didnt ask for a wikipedia article about that old movie...
I assume you know of no car that rivals and surpasses the performance and capabilities of gas powered vehicles?
unfortunatly it appears so
{Step 1. Incredible Claim
Step 2. Challenge
Step 3. Youtube link which explains nothing but makes wild claims (wikipedia in this case)
Step 4. }
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thepaintingaccid
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: johnm214]
#8727397 - 08/05/08 01:29 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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ahh but you should add some input as well rather than just burn me.
Heres a link with a little quick searching http://www.eptrail.com/news/2008/aug/01/charging-ahead-will-your-next-car-be-electric/
It seams toyota has been leasing to select individuals since 2001 rav4 ev. Which are all electric mini suvs. Speeds up to 80mph and no recharge up to 100 miles. Consider that she leased it in 2001. The technology is here in the now.
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zouden
Neuroscientist


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Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: thepaintingaccid]
#8727406 - 08/05/08 01:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Which is why I find it strange that so many companies (not sure about Toyota but definitely Mercedes-Benz) are investigating hydrogen power. They must have done studies that convinced them that hydrogen will eventually be superior to batteries. Or else they'd focus all their efforts on electric cars.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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thepaintingaccid
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: zouden]
#8727420 - 08/05/08 01:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well the electric car poses as a threat to major automotive companies because a large part of their profits come from the maintenance of their vehicles. Hydrogen fuel cells in theory could provide vasts amount of energy w/ only h20 as the byproduct but is far more complicated. Which is why big companies are backing the research. It allows more product to be sold (think a combustion motor), more to maintain, and is more marketable green wise. This is more my own theory as to why but i still see the simplicity in all electric.
It's definitely a good discussion topic
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: thepaintingaccid]
#8728488 - 08/05/08 11:09 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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someone mentioned the explosion when a hydrogen car gets wrecked, what about the battery acid from all the batterys?
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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thepaintingaccid
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Re: Cheap way to 'split water' could lead to abundant clean fuel [Re: makaveli8x8]
#8729433 - 08/05/08 02:46 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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They've developed/developing lithium ion batteries that don't react violently when torn open. I think they mention it in the article.
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