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InvisiblePhraggle
Psilocybe Therapy Advocate


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 161
The why behind Peroxide
    #8704933 - 07/31/08 12:49 AM (14 years, 19 days ago)

This thread is going to attempt to explain why the use of hydrogen peroxide in mycology is beneficial.

First we will have to understand some terms:

Reactive Oxygen Species - or ROS are a group of small molecules that are highly reactive because they have extra electrons. These ROS can cause cell damage or death.

Hydrogen Peroxide - H2O2 or two hydrogen atoms and two oxygen atoms, as in water plus an extra oxygen atom. H2O2 is a ROS.

Enzyme - are biomolecules that catalyze (i.e. increase the rates of) chemical reactions.

Peroxidase - are group of enzymes that increase the reaction of peroxides. One of the possible reactions is turning hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen.

Why we use hydrogen peroxide.
Hydrogen peroxide, as you read above is a ROS so it can cause the death of cells. The high reactivity of hydrogen peroxide and its harmless byproducts make it an good choice for killing those tiny little cells that cause us grief such as fungi and bacteria.

But if hydrogen peroxide can kill a cell by damaging its DNA, RNA and proteins, then why doesn't it kill me when I put it on a cut? My cells contain these things.

Why we don't die from hydrogen peroxide
Most multicellular organism produce ways of neutralizing the effects of ROS to some degree. Obligate aerobes, as in things that need oxygen to produce energy like us for example, actually create some ROS during the reactions that keep it alive. This is why it is important for our bodies to produce ways to deal with these ROS.

One of the ways that mycelium deals with ROS, H2O2 in particular, is by making peroxidases. As you read above, peroxidases turns H202 into H20 and 0. Most spores and bacteria don't have peroxidases and therefor can not neutralize the H2O2 without suffering cell damage or death.

The key is in the dose
Enough hydrogen peroxide will kill your cake or even you. This is why it is generally sold at a very weak strength (3%) for medical applications. It can be found at virtually any drug store.

This strength is enough to kill off bacteria and spores, but will not kill developed mycelium (or you when applied to a cut) for the reasons mentioned above. For this reason, hydrogen peroxide is good to use when you have a well or fully developed cake that has been exposed to the open air where there are spores and bacteria. Times like these occur after dunking cakes, while fanning fruiting chambers or when you are just screwing around with the cake for some reason. It can also be used to clean work areas.

You unfortunately can not store hydrogen peroxide in the chambers with the cakes for any substantial period of time. This is because it breaks down when exposed to light and/or heat which is why it is sold in opaque (usually brown from what I have seen) plastic bottles.

I hope this helps to better explain one of the great discoveries in mycology. If anyone has a correction, addition or comment; then please feel free to post or PM.


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Edited by Phraggle (07/31/08 01:01 AM)


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Phraggle]
    #8704948 - 07/31/08 12:50 AM (14 years, 19 days ago)

peroxide is just water with an oxter oxygen molecule, it eventually turns into water if left out in the open.

if you have some standing water in something that you are turkey bastering out, you could benefit from pouring some in there as it will turn to water eventually, killing the bad crap in the process.


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InvisiblePhraggle
Psilocybe Therapy Advocate


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 161
Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Cannabischarlie] * 1
    #8704997 - 07/31/08 12:57 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

I was trying to be slightly more technical than that and provide sources while still making it simple enough so that most people can understand. I figured that some people may be curious as to why it kills the 'bad stuff' and not the 'good stuff'.


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OfflineMad River
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Registered: 04/29/08
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Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Phraggle]
    #8705058 - 07/31/08 01:05 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

I found it interesting. Thanks.

I don't use it currently, but I'll keep it in mind.


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OfflineIzangi
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Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 479
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Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Mad River]
    #8705111 - 07/31/08 01:13 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

nice I liked that..I also heard that when applied to open wounds it can kill the surrounding skin causing scars or longer healing time.


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chris606 said:
some 1 told me to try long brown rice and water and vermiculite and pressure cook for 1 hour i did but nothing happen that is y was wonting to no if i need spores
RogerRabbit said:
Nothing gets more sterile than red hot.


All posts are intended for fictional or educational purposes only.

No statements in any post or message by myself should be taken as fact. Use of contained information or opinions may be in violation of local, provincial, and/or federal laws.


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InvisiblePhraggle
Psilocybe Therapy Advocate


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 161
Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Mad River]
    #8705123 - 07/31/08 01:15 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

You can definitely get away without using it and be successful. I do keep it on hand since it has a number of times where it can come in handy and is cheap.


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OfflineMad River
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Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Phraggle]
    #8705139 - 07/31/08 01:17 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

I know a lot of people seem to just add it to perlite and misters without there being a necessity for it. When is it useful to use it in a more utilitarian manner?


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InvisiblePhraggle
Psilocybe Therapy Advocate


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 161
Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Izangi]
    #8705178 - 07/31/08 01:24 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

I doubt that is possible unless you use way too much or the wrong strength. Medical is 3%.


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InvisiblePhraggle
Psilocybe Therapy Advocate


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 161
Re: The why behind Peroxide [Re: Mad River]
    #8705216 - 07/31/08 01:31 AM (14 years, 18 days ago)

You can use it to prep a work area (its cheaper than lysol). You can use it to clean a fruiting chamber between grows. If you use bags and you notice one contaminating, you can spray some in the other bags the next time you fan as an extra precaution.

I haven't found a way to understand how quickly the hydrogen peroxide breaks down so I would play it safe and use it as a fresh-out-of-the-bottle, one time application and not as something that will prevent problems over extended periods of time (unless you happen to be growing in a cold dark room at which point it becomes rather pointless).


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