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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: deranger]
#8693896 - 07/28/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: he's saying his words (and all) are bs.
Quote:
Knowledge is the fall of man - there is nothing to know, man makes it up as he goes along.
Is that what he's saying. Well that don't make it true.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: Icelander]
#8693915 - 07/28/08 07:39 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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true. but what is true?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: deranger]
#8694097 - 07/28/08 08:02 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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a four letter word.
In this case true would be a best guess based on available evidence.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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burgatory
Outlander



Registered: 02/16/08
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: Icelander]
#8694265 - 07/28/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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In what way am I supposed to defend it? Who, or what, am I to defend it?
As much as you can look at your computer monitor and know it is there, I can see that there is nothing. When the ego disintegrates, and I see the world change what it is, how can it be denied? There's nothing I'm positing as an idea or a fact, everything I'm saying is based on self-evident perception. When I see that my actions are not being controlled but are occurring of themselves, and that I have returned to the intended state, I can see that all knowledge is useless. If exactly what is happening is perfect and complete, and I am not there, whatever else is there to do? At that point I have become the dream. What is there to know in a dream? The dream is self-actualizing. It's like putting your hands on the wheel.
The minute you start thinking in a dream it becomes a nightmare.
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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all. joseph campbell For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. jesus
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: burgatory]
#8694320 - 07/28/08 08:37 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well I find almost everything you state to be untrue or without evidence in my explorations of life. For instance,I can see that all knowledge is useless. You are using knowledge to make your reply to me. I was hoping you could provide some evidence outside of what you claim to be self evident.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: Icelander]
#8694717 - 07/28/08 09:35 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: a four letter word.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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I think I will start a separate thread about the model for multiplicative human being modeling to clarify. (quite an unrelated idea in itself, I think I should have left it out since I couldn't give it a full introduction)
Oh I have to respond to this one statement though:
Quote:
If I say I have an ache in my body, who, aside from using equipment, can know whether it that is a true and accurate statement? No one.
You are more right than you meant to be! No one, not even you can know in all cases without the right equipment- a hypnotically suggested ache can be just as real as an environmentally induced one.
There are many mechanisms by which pain would be interrupted from reaching your brain in fact, from drugs to paralysis. We can't have your humanity failing just because you shoot some H! (even though Dr. Phil would really like that)
But enough about the side topic, clearly the usability of my model was too subjective.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector



Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Thank you for using the word 'subjective' correctly in the post above.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Posts: 14,279
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8696299 - 07/29/08 07:59 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said:
Quote:
burgatory said: The human race is not progressing. A language system, a thought pattern, a psychic construct is progressing.
What would the human race have to accomplish to be considered to be "progressing"....?
>^;;^<
Sainthood, in only the most positive meaning of the word.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: Icelander]
#8696909 - 07/29/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Now you know how I feel. But I don't expect you to stop.
To everyone: please, let's not get started with the personalisms. Leave your debating counterpart out of the debate and hit the "Notify Moderator" button if someone is personalisming you. (Is that a real word?)
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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daytripper23
?


Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: Diploid]
#8697195 - 07/29/08 12:12 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, the "root" personalism isn't even a real word, for good reason/(unreason).
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector



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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: Diploid]
#8697299 - 07/29/08 12:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you. That should suffice.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: daytripper23]
#8697690 - 07/29/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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the "root" personalism isn't even a real word
a doctrine emphasizing the significance, uniqueness, and inviolability of personality
Merriam-Webster Online
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Acknowledging Subjectivity [Re: daytripper23]
#8697870 - 07/29/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper23 said: No, the "root" personalism isn't even a real word, for good reason/(unreason).
keep trying
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus


Registered: 07/12/05
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Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said: Thank you for using the word 'subjective' correctly in the post above.
I was actually wondering if you would respond based on the validity of that word's context.
How would you define objective and subjective (without a dictionary)?
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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burgatory
Outlander



Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 641
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Objective - artificial point of culturally-instated commonsense, originating in dualism of the West, being the basis for Western society and science, developed into hysterical modern culture which is the cause-effect for taking dualism too far
Subjective - the manifest present, the perception without extraneous thought, the actual, true, complete perspective which is cosmic
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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all. joseph campbell For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. jesus
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector



Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
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I've been considering devoting a thread to it due to the misunderstanding of the words. A complete explanation would require at least that.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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at least
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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