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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: enslavement [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8698587 - 07/29/08 05:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Carnal pleasures may pass, but the memories and emotions gained by these pleasures can be as lasting as any spiritual endeavors.

The point of material possessions are not the possessions themselves, but the pleasures derived from them.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: enslavement [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8698597 - 07/29/08 05:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Buddhism holds that all things are impermanent, whether they are pleasurable mental states which we choose to describe as "spiritual" or pleasurable physical states which we choose to describe as "carnal."  :shrug:

What do you think?  Is there a purpose from which carnal pleasures can distract us?  Is there a meaning in life?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: enslavement [Re: Redstorm]
    #8698604 - 07/29/08 05:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Carnal pleasures may pass, but the memories and emotions gained by these pleasures can be as lasting as any spiritual endeavors.




Especially if you get them on video.  :naughty:


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: enslavement [Re: Redstorm]
    #8698870 - 07/29/08 06:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

But the memory is also a carnal thing, isn' it?  It's located in the hippocampus region of our brain.  You may hold on to memories for your life, but when you die, wouldn't the memory die with the body?  If it does, those memories would still be temporal.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: enslavement [Re: Veritas]
    #8698917 - 07/29/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I say it's the philosophy that bhuddists subscribe to because one of the main features of it is that you must "die to the self".  In other words, you must understand that we are all one and that there are no individuals.  I've heard that Bhuddists will not even refer to themselves as I or me or as their name because of this.  Actually, one of the points Huxley was making in the book was that the Perennial Philosophy has a place in every developed religion of the world and he gives examples all throughout the book.

It is said in the book that carnal pleasures are distractions from the divine Ground that we should be striving for at all times.  This philosophy shows through in Christianity where Jesus talks about putting God above everything, including your family.

I, personally, don't know if there is a meaning in life.  Sometimes I think yes, sometimes I think no.  I'm hopeful that there is because this all seems like a big waste to me if there isn't.  I mean, seriously, why in the hell would the big bang just occur in vast nothingness to create a universe?  Maybe there isn't a why and it's just my human nature that tells me there has to be a reason for everything.

I will say, though, that when I take mushrooms, death doesn't worry me at all.  It just feels like my conciousness will continue on after life.  It feels like there is a purpose.  I could see why researchers say that psychedelic drugs are very helpful for terminally ill patients and I could see why Aldous Huxley had his wife inject him with LSD when he was dying.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


Edited by pothead_bob (07/29/08 06:46 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: enslavement [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8698929 - 07/29/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

My best guess is that there isn't a why, there is just a "can."  As in, things happen because they can, and they don't because they can't.

Humans like to try to explain things in terms of "why" because we project our own behavioral process onto reality.  This may be erroneous, as reality is NOT human.  :wink:

What do you think about carnal pleasures?  Does savoring the taste and odor of a ripe nectarine constitute a distraction from the Divine Ground?  What if there is no Divine Ground, and all of our rejection of carnality is pointless restriction of what is real?

BTW, I've spent quite a bit of time around Buddhists, even some very devout ones, and have studied Buddhism for years, without running into anyone who refuses to use "I" "me" or their name.  :grin:


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: enslavement [Re: Veritas]
    #8698989 - 07/29/08 07:03 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

No, I totally understand where you're coming from.  I guess that's just the risk you would take in rejecting all carnal pleasures.  But it has been said that once you start achieving selflessness through discipline and concentration, you start to see the benefits of a purely spiritual life and may even have mystical experiences.  However, the book says, and Jesus mentioned this too, that miraculous occurrences are also a distraction.  Those who get hung up on performing miracles and the powers that come with spiritual enlightenment are missing out on the true point. 

Huxley actually addressed the topic of food.  He said that anything that isn't required for basic nutrition is a distraction.  So like, cake would be a distraction.  I don't know about a nectarine.  Beer would be a distraction, and pot, and LSD, and anything else that you didn't need for survival.

So, you would be taking a risk by "dying to the self", but Huxley also says:

"The mere act of dying is not in itself a passport to eternity - nor can wholesale killing do anything to bring deliverance either to the slayers or the slain or their posterity."

I take this as, you have to prepare yourself for existence after this life if you expect to partake in it or enjoy it.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: enslavement [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8699250 - 07/29/08 08:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
But the memory is also a carnal thing, isn' it?  It's located in the hippocampus region of our brain.  You may hold on to memories for your life, but when you die, wouldn't the memory die with the body?  If it does, those memories would still be temporal.




As does any spiritual knowledge or endeavors you have undertaken during your life. All of this will also be found in your rotting brain.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: enslavement [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8699399 - 07/29/08 08:45 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

And if there IS nothing after this life, we've forsaken the experience of this life for a fantasy. 

Sounds like a poor choice to me, but others may sign up for that "deal."  As for me, I shall do my best to reap the harvest of THIS life, as it is the only reality in evidence.


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: enslavement [Re: Veritas]
    #8699562 - 07/29/08 09:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

As I said in my last post, it's certainly a possibility that there is nothing afer this life.  There's no way of proving it that I know of, so chose as you see fit.

Quote:

As does any spiritual knowledge or endeavors you have undertaken during your life. All of this will also be found in your rotting brain.




Well, that may be, but the way I see it, it's not really about spiritual "memories".  You are "connecting" with the spiritual Ground and grooming your conciousness to be a part of it after this life has ended.  Like I said, I'm no expert on the Perennial Philosophy.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: enslavement [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8700073 - 07/29/08 11:19 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
But the memory is also a carnal thing, isn' it?  It's located in the hippocampus region of our brain.  You may hold on to memories for your life, but when you die, wouldn't the memory die with the body?  If it does, those memories would still be temporal.



well no shit the only thing left after that is the impact it had on everything else still in existance and what follows from that. in other words there will be life after your death and if your gona come back into the world of the living you dont want to have
to deal with the shit you left for yourself by not doing things right.

i am you and your are me and this is what we see. really you can be happy alone but as i said you cant live completly devoid of others its not possible, you will be come unhappy and lonely cause your alone. no living thing wants to live alone and not leave any memories cept maybe a few wronged people being wrong cause of it

also those mentioned pleasures of course are part of it. its when all the chakras are in alignment one can see that if you have a disblance your root wont function right so your desires and pleasures wont be right either


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


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