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InvisibleEgo Death
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Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation
    #8693517 - 07/28/08 06:22 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

The skeptic vs believer stuff is all messed up.

A skeptic should be somebody who asks questions but doesn't make their mind up.  The wiki definition is
Quote:

an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object


.  What makes constant doubt a better logic?  We used to doubt that smoking causes cancer but with todays science it seem an almost certainty.

Seems skeptic is used to mean somebody who is actually a believer because it is the person who calls themselves skeptical that has made up their minds that they know the truth thus they are actually a believer.

In my opinion, to decide with complete certainty one way or the other is the erroneous logic.  Often these decisions are based on a more raw human emotion.  Theres a motive behind them.  Wanting to believe something for a particular reason.

Yet the people labeled "believers" are often just people who are open to possibilities.

There are actual believers too and these people have failed common sense and logic in the exact same way a skeptic has.

Its all messed up! :crazy2:


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Ego Death]
    #8693537 - 07/28/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Two opposites carried to their extremes become more similar than different.

The skeptic says no.

The believer says yes.

What is the difference between yes and no - LaoTzu


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Ego Death]
    #8693547 - 07/28/08 06:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It all depends on how you look at it. You could say that someone who doubts wants to know rather than believe. The absence of belief is not a belief.

I question/doubt everything, including the clarity of language. To put an abstract concept into words it is necessary to dilute the meaning. To define those words with other words rather than innate understanding dilutes their meaning even more.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8693633 - 07/28/08 06:47 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Do skeptics believe that those objects are space dust??
No they must simply be Space Donuts a couple miles in diameter.


Space Donuts, recognize.
:cool:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8694019 - 07/28/08 07:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Do skeptics believe that those objects are space dust??
No they must simply be Space Donuts a couple miles in diameter.


Space Donuts, recognize.
:cool:




Its amazing how those "ufo's" never manage once to even slightly deviate from a straight line. Their velocity seems to remain steady as well.


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8696093 - 07/29/08 06:10 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I think it comes down to enquiring minds, truly enquiring minds dont stop until they find truth, the rest are stuck on belief systems, either "i dont believe anything" or "i believe"...

If someone truly believed he would find truth through surrender/non-resistance, & if someone truly did not believe in anything, he would also find truth as he would be free of the unopeness of beliefs.

Skeptics minds are generally stuck in contempt of religious fanatics & spiritual hippies it seems.
They question everything but themselves. Objects but not the subject.
IMO a true skeptic questions themselves not other things.
Questioning everything is endless, whats the point?
There will always be something new to question, always.
Just look at all the phenomena in the universe!
Questioning yourself you go straight to the source of everything.

All paths end in the same place, Who am I?
This is totally undoubtedly inevitable, when youve seen the whole universe inch by inch, the only question left is "who saw it all?"

:peace:

btw those space donuts are great!


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (07/29/08 06:36 AM)


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Chronic7]
    #8696183 - 07/29/08 07:06 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

If you like the donuts,
check out this space eel filmed by a NASA astronaut:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/download.php?Number=7593642

The astronaut clearly states "theres no question, it had internal motion".  Yet skeptics have labeled this a "piece of rubber hose acting strangely in 0 gravity".  I don't see how 0 gravity would give a rubber hose internal motion.  :tongue:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Ego Death]
    #8696228 - 07/29/08 07:23 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

> What makes constant doubt a better logic?

I don't understand your question.  For me, doubt has nothing to do with logic.

Ignoring the logic bit... I tend to doubt everything, even the stuff that I think I know.  Perhaps question is a better word than doubt; I try to question everything.  I try to understand controversial issues from both sides, which is why you will often see me argue one way, then another.  I use debate as a learning tool, not as a method to convince somebody else to think like me.

> Yet the people labeled "believers" are often just people who are open to possibilities.

I disagree.  "Believers" are convinced, beyond any doubt, that they are correct.  Their mind is just as closed to possibilities as the non-believers.  They have closed their mind to the possibility that they may be wrong.  There is no difference in the open/closed mindedness of believers and non-believers; they are both stuck in their ways, unable to think beyond the box they have created.

To me, the non-believer says "not a chance," the believer says "this is the way," and the skeptic says, "not enough proof to know one way or the other".


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InvisibleChronic7

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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Seuss]
    #8696261 - 07/29/08 07:41 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
  "Believers" are convinced, beyond any doubt, that they are correct.  Their mind is just as closed to possibilities as the non-believers.  They have closed their mind to the possibility that they may be wrong.

There is no difference in the open/closed mindedness of believers and non-believers; they are both stuck in their ways, unable to think beyond the box they have created.





So true, although you can not think beyond the box you create, because thinking outside of it would be another thought you created in it!
Its impossible to think outside of mind as mind is thought.

Pure awareness is beyond all ideas & thoughts & is there before during & after a thought, what you can do is put your attention on the awareness & not the thoughts, eventually seeing even that statement is happening in the awareness! So its even impossible to 'stay as awareness' because we are already that :grin:

Id say to sceptiks & believers, dont do either just recognize what is always present, consistent & permanent. It really is that easy, truth is consistent & permanent, in your core you are that. Then even question the thought of 'staying as whats permanent'!!!

Seriously how can we "be one with that", we already ARE THAT!!!

:peace:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Seuss]
    #8697471 - 07/29/08 01:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> What makes constant doubt a better logic?

I don't understand your question.  For me, doubt has nothing to do with logic.

Ignoring the logic bit... I tend to doubt everything, even the stuff that I think I know.  Perhaps question is a better word than doubt; I try to question everything.  I try to understand controversial issues from both sides, which is why you will often see me argue one way, then another.  I use debate as a learning tool, not as a method to convince somebody else to think like me.

> Yet the people labeled "believers" are often just people who are open to possibilities.

I disagree.  "Believers" are convinced, beyond any doubt, that they are correct.  Their mind is just as closed to possibilities as the non-believers.  They have closed their mind to the possibility that they may be wrong.  There is no difference in the open/closed mindedness of believers and non-believers; they are both stuck in their ways, unable to think beyond the box they have created.

To me, the non-believer says "not a chance," the believer says "this is the way," and the skeptic says, "not enough proof to know one way or the other".




Except for the fact that most self-identified skeptics aren't really skeptical.  They are convinced of their own truth and hide behind the title to pretend open-mindness.  It's a scam.  I have known as many true skeptics as true agnostics--0.

What if you're a true believer in open-mindedness? :wink:

:lol:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8697538 - 07/29/08 01:35 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> What makes constant doubt a better logic?

I don't understand your question.  For me, doubt has nothing to do with logic.

Ignoring the logic bit... I tend to doubt everything, even the stuff that I think I know.  Perhaps question is a better word than doubt; I try to question everything.  I try to understand controversial issues from both sides, which is why you will often see me argue one way, then another.  I use debate as a learning tool, not as a method to convince somebody else to think like me.

> Yet the people labeled "believers" are often just people who are open to possibilities.

I disagree.  "Believers" are convinced, beyond any doubt, that they are correct.  Their mind is just as closed to possibilities as the non-believers.  They have closed their mind to the possibility that they may be wrong.  There is no difference in the open/closed mindedness of believers and non-believers; they are both stuck in their ways, unable to think beyond the box they have created.

To me, the non-believer says "not a chance," the believer says "this is the way," and the skeptic says, "not enough proof to know one way or the other".




Except for the fact that most self-identified skeptics aren't really skeptical.  They are convinced of their own truth and hide behind the title to pretend open-mindness.  It's a scam.  I have known as many true skeptics as true agnostics--0.

What if you're a true believer in open-mindedness? :wink:

:lol:



It sounds like you're pretty "skeptical" (by your own definition) of skeptics. In that sense, one could say you are being close minded.

This line of reasoning is obviously absurd, because the distinction between skeptic vs. believer, and an open vs. closed mind is an illusion. A closed mind is nothing more that an different perspective.


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Edited by blewmeanie (07/29/08 04:47 PM)


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8698647 - 07/29/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Hongos said:
Except for the fact that most self-identified skeptics aren't really skeptical.  They are convinced of their own truth and hide behind the title to pretend open-mindness.  It's a scam.  I have known as many true skeptics as true agnostics--0.





Thats exactly what I mean!:thumbup:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Seuss]
    #8698655 - 07/29/08 05:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I like you  :humpme:  :hehehe:


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Ego Death]
    #8698744 - 07/29/08 06:03 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

It could be a ego problem.......  We would certainly feel mighty self important if we convinced ourselves that we were the only intelligent species in the Cosmos.  "We are the pinnacle of creation...
Certainly no one is more evolutionarily developed than homo sapiens."

That seems to be the standpoint of much of humanity.  It would be a crushing blow to the collective ego to come to terms that we aren't really terribly evolved...

Space Brother Perspective (admittedly, hypothetical)
Look at those poor barely evolved bipedal creatures!  They are only able to barely glimpse (and look at how much it fucks with them) beyond three dimensional reality.  Even when they do it they need to trip nuts and have a buddy watch over them....
They must find trippers hilarious....


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8698768 - 07/29/08 06:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8698855 - 07/29/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Not sure what you mean by that video?
Considering those Space Donuts are 77+ miles away thats a big dern donut, After all some pass Behind the Tether, which is 77 something miles away at the time according to the astronauts.

Wheres the Space Coffee??

Seriously though what you think they are? Considering that the video shows distinct contrast we can tell that some are miles in Diameter.

By the way in case some are wondering its NASA's own footage

A dude named Osho said "Sometimes you have to call a spade a fucking spade."


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8698940 - 07/29/08 06:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

This one also shows direction change, and one of the ships Escaping Earths Gravity only possble with internal propulsion.

&q=Sereda%20Case%20for%20UFO's&hl=en


Edited by Mr.Al (07/29/08 07:41 PM)


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: Mr.Al]
    #8699015 - 07/29/08 07:09 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Not sure what you mean by that video?
Considering those Space Donuts are 77+ miles away thats a big dern donut, After all some pass Behind the Tether, which is 77 something miles away at the time according to the astronauts.

Wheres the Space Coffee??

Seriously though what you think they are? Considering that the video shows distinct contrast we can tell that some are miles in Diameter.

By the way in case some are wondering its NASA's own footage

A dude named Osho said "Sometimes you have to call a spade a fucking spade."



You dont have to convince me, Ive seen all the evidence I need first hand. I do think most of the videos out are pretty absurd though. Ive seen the combination of light, dust, and to much zoom create some impossible looking illusions, that look remarkably similar.

And yes, I know its nasa's own footage, its been out for a while now on youtube. I thought it was amazing the first time I saw it, but after a good 10 to 15 seconds you start to (or at least I did) realize that there is a good chance that its just a trick of light. The other video wont load for me, I'll check back latter and see if its up.

Like I said though you dont need to convince me.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Skeptics / believers and misinterpretation [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8699117 - 07/29/08 07:37 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:





:rastana::rastana::rastana::rastana::rastana:
:rastana::rastana::rastana::rastana::rastana:
:rastana::rastana::rastana::rastana::rastana:


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