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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Categorical Mistake
    #869576 - 09/07/02 07:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

It tires me to coninually make the same counter when people are trying to disuade my belief in God. Usually the first question they ask me (like it is clever) is: "If God is all powerful can he make an ocean so big he can't swim across it"? They think this play on syntax has eluded an answer.

Well if he can't create the ocean then he is not powerful enough to be God.
If he can create this ocean then he can't swim it so he is not God.

This is a categorical mistake. Just because you can put certain words together doesn't mean they have any coherent meaning. Sure, you can physically speak these words and put them together but this the "categorical mistake" these words make no sense to even be spoken. That is like asking "can God make a round square". This words have no meaning when put in this order.

So have I proven there is a God.....of course not. But these silly questions certainly don't disprove him either. Keep searching Atheists!!!! When you have a truely inquisitive question "that makes sense" I will try to answer it to the best of my limited knowledge as to the nature of God.


P.S. Similar questions to be thrown out:

Can God make a rock so big he couldn't hold it?
Can god make something so small he can't see it?
etc.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: chemkid]
    #869794 - 09/08/02 04:38 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Describe your god, please.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: chemkid]
    #869827 - 09/08/02 05:00 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Is that categorical error an imperative? I Kant say for sure.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: Sclorch]
    #869986 - 09/08/02 11:43 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I am referring to the Judeao-Christian God. But I suspect that any god would do. If you choose to believe in Zeus etc; by definition...God is omnipotent.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: chemkid]
    #870569 - 09/08/02 10:39 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i'm just curious as to who is trying to convince you God does not exist?
Stay away from these people, they seem bad.
:smirk:-OoD 


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OfflineMetasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 236
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: chemkid]
    #870693 - 09/09/02 12:02 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I think the faulty part of these type of arguments is that God is not a human. I don't even think of Him is a distinct entity. God to me is more like a law of nature, an overarching metaphor that connects everything in the universe. As such, He cannot "swim" in the literal sense of the word.

It just comes down to those people not understanding what you mean when you say God. Then, rather than attempt to understand you, they try to debunk your ideas because its easier on their belief systems.

Plus, its not like you can ever prove the existence of God. If you could it would've been done already and the millenia old question would be resolved. Faith is an individual thing based on individual experiences and intuition. You can't convince anybody of either the existence or absence of a higher power.


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Anonymous

Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: Metasyn]
    #870704 - 09/09/02 12:13 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

My that's a high rank for such a few posts.  Congratulations.

Secrets, I won't tell. :wink:

Cheers for fears, 


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Between a rock and a hard...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: Metasyn]
    #870823 - 09/09/02 01:08 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you metasyn, I think we try to put God in a human box sometimes and it just can't be done. God is so far removed from the human experience that we can't even fathom the right questions to ask nevermind the answers.


--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: chemkid]
    #871625 - 09/09/02 12:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If you call God "omnipotent" then you have made a categorical mistake.

Because omnipotent means all those things you have just said: round square, etc.

So if you want atheists to believe in your God, then you better not tell them he's all-powerful... you'll just be laughed at.



--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: chemkid]
    #871684 - 09/09/02 12:58 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I agree. Throw out those stupid questions. I've always found those arguments pretty meaningless. But not as meaningless as the concept of omnipotence. The whole idea of perfection (in the qualitative sense) or flawlessness, or anything that is truly be-all and end-all is silly to me. It's like wanting to live in a solid gold house.

Anyway, as meaningless as those questions are, I think their author's intent was to show how ridiculous the concept of omnipotence is. It just reeks of human idealism. As soon as you start considering the implications of an omnipotent concsiousness somewhere in the universe, countless wierd contradictions pop up. Anything omnipotent would certainly not exist in the same realm of understanding and knowledge as humans; omnipotence would not be a quality we mere mortals could never truly comprehend. This is my major beef with the Judeo-Christian God. It's just too human; too made-up sounding. Why the hell would a God swim anyway? Do people really picture God as a big old man with a beard and bushy eyebrows? That seems to be the common depiction. In any case, nobody can prove to you that omnipotent entities cannot exist, so don't expect someone to come up with similar philosophical question that will stump you. The burden of proof lies upon the person making the claim that an omnipotent God exists, not the person refuting it.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


Edited by CyberChump (09/09/02 01:03 PM)


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: pattern]
    #871723 - 09/09/02 01:06 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If you call God "omnipotent" then you have made a categorical mistake.

Because omnipotent means all those things you have just said: round square, etc.


Right on. This is what I meant by 'weird contradictions popping up', but I was unable to explain it well. 5 shrooms for you!


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinemirrorsaww
newbie
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 43
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: Categorical Mistake [Re: ]
    #871916 - 09/09/02 09:29 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I Kant say for sure.

What do you think of enforced quarantine, does it conflict? That they are not being treated as a person in their own ends?


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