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 Ripper
enthusiast
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 223
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 Re: genetic memory 
#86855 - 07/17/00 12:31 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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UGH! Do you not read? Casing material is not digested by mycellium, the quote(which is a big NO NO-COPYRIGHTS) refers to creating a srtain of mycellium from spore germination which is adapted to a specific form of digestion, ie. Stamets Alder Loving Shiitake. Ripper
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 Suntzu
Geek
Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 1,396
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86857 - 07/17/00 08:21 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Didn't think about the copyright thing, shit that was stupid, sorry all.
But I never said the casing material is DIGESTED I said there might exist unique genetic responses [maybe for attachment to vermiculite, neutralizing a piece of lime or peat]. Not all genes code only for digestive 'enzymes and acids' and the issue wasn't what Stamets' purpose is for it, that's not what I was posting about. If there is such a 'genetic memory' can we use it to get better CASING COLONIZATION RATES [note, NOT DIGESTION] esp. with tough-to-grow fungi? The hypothesis is that maybe by activating some of the [if there are any] genes that usually only kick in when they are colonizing casing off of *sterile grain*. This is the point; think of the genes you are transcribing while colonizing birdseed. Fine. Now I imagine there must be new genes kicking in as the fungus starts to colonize peat and/or vermiculite. And if these genes have been even slightly activated while colonizing spawn jars, PERHAPS casing colonization rates will increase. Man, I don't know how much clearer to state it--it's a hypothesis. And I don't think I said it wrong the first time [exc. copyright...ouch].
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Anonymous
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86858 - 07/19/00 08:51 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Excellent hypothesis Stuntzu! Try it out for all of us, your findings could possibly serve to be a paradigm shift in cultivation. And if you are wrong, than it was a good idea. Ripper, how about a little support instead of flagrantly trying to blast people out of the water, even if they are wrong.
Your response, seemed a little harsh especially on someone that was simply throwing out good ideas. I visit the shroomery to look for just these kinds of posts because they are original and not the same old newbie question and answer posts. So, I encourage these independent thought provoking ideas to continue. I only wish that these kinds of posts were all that you could find under the Advanced section. ------------------
Trying to rationalize with an irrational person, is in itself irrational!
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Gadget
addict
Registered: 11/16/99
Posts: 341
Last seen: 23 years, 26 days
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86859 - 07/20/00 11:52 AM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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With regards to the post, since he gave the source, and its pertinent information. There should not be any plagerism/copyright infringment, Should there?With regardst ot the idea, Sounds like a very interesting theory. Esp if one was using a straw tek, could one blend up some straw and add it to the spawn? Neat stuff  ------------------
/Gadget "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there always is."
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Suntzu
Geek
Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 1,396
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86860 - 07/20/00 04:13 PM (24 years, 9 months ago) |
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Gadget, that is a great idea; I don't work with straw much, so hadn't considered that option. If this proves fruitful, it could even be of benefit for PF cake growers who use straw to toss a few strands in before sterilizing [BTW, this would be a bit more like the method that Ripper---oops, I mean Stamets--was using to get his specific strains, except with agar]. I found an aspect of doing this that you have to watch is how much of a 'supplement' you add and how it can affect any shaking you might do [may have to modify water content if you use a significant amount]. I don't have any idea how much would be mininal to notice a difference or how much is too much to make any more of a difference. My 'hopeful hypothesis' is that only a spoonful or so per qt jar [less for 1/2 pt.] is enough to stimulate any 'casing genes' prior to casing, and give a noticeable effect.Currently, I have about a half-dozen or so regular birdseed-only jars, and a half-dozen birdseed with ~a spoonful of casing mix [50/50 + lime, added B4 sterilization]. ALL were inoculated the same time a couple nights ago with a freshly blended petri plate. I plan to case them all identically in composition and depth. Might have some interesting results. [might not]
Thanks for the posts guys, I was beginning to think no one understood what I was trying to say. GoBaRR, thanks and I agree, I love seeing new stuff instead of the same 'advanced' stuff again and again. [This message has been edited by Suntzu (edited July 20, 2000).]
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lares
member
Registered: 12/13/98
Posts: 129
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86861 - 07/30/00 04:30 AM (24 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay, that's *not* copyright infringement. Short quotes (this qualifies) with proper credits given are perfectly legal.That was no worse than quoting a passage from David Copperfield to illustrate a point in an English paper.
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"The universe does a math equation that never even ever really is anywhere in it, and if it spouts out creation, we're on the tip of its tongue, and it asks us where we stand." -- Modest Mouse
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Prellgott
addict
Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 383
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86862 - 07/30/00 07:57 AM (24 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not exactly that thing, but it has to do with it...
FOAF uses the old lazlo mycelium tek with h202, with each "generation" (not really cause there is no change in the genitical setup)the jars get colonized faster, because the mycelium gets accomodated t the tek and to the substrate, and the substrain which is best gets selected by taking the fastest jar, and by competition (sp?) in the jar......
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i'm back
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Suntzu
Geek
Registered: 10/14/99
Posts: 1,396
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Re: genetic memory [Re: Ripper]
#86863 - 08/11/00 07:49 PM (24 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alright, I lost a bunch of jars to contaminants but still had enough to experiment;
To test casing colonization rates [50/50+], I cased straight-BS, BS+bit-o-casing, as well as a few BS+bit-o-shit's that I was inspired to include while visiting my dad's and noticed some ancient roadapples. Again, only a spoonful [finely broken up] in 250 mL BS/125 mL H2O. I think if BS+bit-o-casing can outcompete this guy, that suggests an easy way to better casing success. Will see.
Also, I wanted to test the 'substrate memory' by expanding some of each of the above to shit [pasteurized]. 3 days later, it really is amazing!! I need a digital camera right now. There are 10 plastic dixie cups of each, and the BS+bit-o-shit's are all SOLID WHITE while BS+bit-o-casing's and straight-BS's still have small dark dung patches. It surprised me actually, now I HAVE to case tonight 
I was very careful to get uniform, measured amounts of finely broken up dung and spawn; I have no doubt the tiny addition to the birdseed made the difference;
I'd like to hear from anyone else trying similar things, maybe a tablespoon of shredded straw added to a few PF cakes, then expanded to straw with some non-straw PF's.
Anyway, it is cool to see that you may be able to get a big jumpstart on dung by adding a small amount to your PF's or whatever. Seriously, I only added about a tablespoon. It is SO SO nice to actually have dung colonize quickly.
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