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Offlinewillowmp
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Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC.
    #8682417 - 07/25/08 11:23 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Ok so i am preparing for my first time growing. I have an 8 quart PC that i bought from wallys world. I looked for a larger one there but it was the largest there. So i basically have the container, the jars, an ultrasonic humidifier that will most likely be run on a timer, BRF, and verm. Being a noobie i was planning on using the PF tek brf cakes as they seemed easy enough, but i have found many posts stating that they are not as good as whole grains and that if you have a PC that you should use whole grain. So being a noobie should i go with the whole grains or the PF tek brf cakes?


also because i will be using an ultrasonic humidifier and it does not provide much gas exchange/FAE should i buy an aquarium air pump and leave that running while the humidifier comes on just enough to provide the correct humidity? my ultrasonic humidifier has a control on it to determine mist output meaning at the lowest setting it already comes out as a light mist and if combined with the 2 liter soda bottles i think i could almost completely reduce the mist and leave it on for long periods of time, especially if i have an aquarium pump constantly providing the fresh air.

Although i am a noobie i would like to get this system as fully automatic as possible. i also live with my mom and will be containing all of this in my closet, meaning i am not going to be trying to make a martha.

<edit>

btw the pressure cooker i have is an 8 qt. mirro from wallmart. i saw some people posting that it is not good for grain because of the 10 psi instead of 15. i have not used it so i can return it do you think i should stick with it or take it back and buy something a little bigger +15 psi+better quality?

<edit #2>
I decided to take my pressure cooker purchased from wallmart back and have ordered a Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker/Canner from amazon. It arrives monday they had some deal where as a new member you can sign up as a premium account or something as a trial for a month free and cancel it whenever you want so i did that and 1 day shipping cost me only 3 dollars extra. =D

Thanks for the help.
<3

Edited by willowmp (07/26/08 12:41 AM)

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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8683177 - 07/26/08 05:39 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

any thoughts?


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

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Offlinepsilog
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8683200 - 07/26/08 06:03 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I think that your PC is gonna be badass.

Go for the grains if you intend to spawn to a bulk substrate such as coir, poo, and/or straw.
Otherwise I'd stick with the BRF for simplicity's sake.

What size jar do you have?  I use pint jars when making WBS spawn.  WBS is known for being contam-prone and smaller jars make it easier to isolate just one small volume jar opposed to loosing a whole qt.

WBS for a 'NOOB' shouldn't be a problem as long as you know how to run your PC and are able to properly hydrate the grain.  Either by soaking the WBS for 24-36 hrs in warm water or simmering it for 30 mins.


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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8683228 - 07/26/08 06:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

oh i i accidentally posted i had the jars.

i have a store that sells them so im just going to buy them there i think they have pint jars and maybe half pint.


because i am doing a monotub i wonder if i should use half pint or pint jars. if i make my FC tall enough i may be able to have half pint jars on top of each other using some sort of rack or something but i don't think i will have that big of a container. so i will probably go with pint jars.


Yea the PC looks great i read some review on it and they were all good.


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

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Offlinepsilog
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8683292 - 07/26/08 07:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're a little mixed up on what kind of fruiting chamber you'll use.

A monotub is used for casings.  Your colonized BRF or WBS will occupy the bottom of the monotub and then will be covered with a casing mix of your choice.  Sometimes your colonized cakes will be spawned to a bulk substrate.  This is why monotubs are favorable for bulk substrates, they allow you to use the entire bottom area.  Search through the growlogs where a monotub was used.  It'll give you a visual on how these are set up.  If you opt to fruit just from cakes, I'd look into the Shotgun fruiting chamber.

As far as stealth factor goes; I'd go with a monotub.  Once the mycelium is established and then cased, they are low maitainance and stackable :thumbup:

A little reading about these two options should give you some insight into the extent of your humidity needs.


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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: psilog]
    #8683308 - 07/26/08 07:42 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I am a noob as well and I am going with BRF cakes they should be ready to fruit within 4-5 days.. But I am gona do a mono tub and spawn my brf cakes to coir then after that is ready I will case with verm/coir mix..  This is what I have chosen for my first grow.. It is very easy just maintain sterile environment when transferring..  Hope this helps..

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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: Damion5050]
    #8683352 - 07/26/08 08:14 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

yea i was kinda mixed up on monotubs and fruiting chambers lol.


but i think i am going to do what Damion is doing because i have seen videos of BRF cakes compared to casings or monotubs and the casings/monotubs have much higher yields. i know that BRF cakes are not very good for casing/monotubing because they do not pour like rye, WBS, or another whole grain, so i am thinking if i have the equipment to do it (pressure cooker) why go the less efficient and more difficult way.


so i am probably going to go with a monotub but my only question now is humidity and air exchange. i do have the ultrasonic which is adjustable to the point where the mist it quite low already, coupled with a soda bottle in line i believe it would provide a manageable amount of humidity. Also i am contemplating buying the aquarium air pump from a pet store to provide fresh air, coupled with holes in the monotub. My idea is that the air pump would sufficiently diffuse the ultrasonic output which is already being diffused and allow me to use it and not be flooded, and keep good air exchange at the same time. I was thinking about getting a cool mist humidifier instead but i already have a ultrasonic and its got a control so why not try it and not have to hassle with another unit.


The setup is kinda lavish for a first time growing but i would like to make a reliable system from the get go.


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

Edited by willowmp (07/26/08 08:19 AM)

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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8683387 - 07/26/08 08:38 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

willowmp said:
yea i was kinda mixed up on monotubs and fruiting chambers lol.


but i think i am going to do what Damion is doing because i have seen videos of BRF cakes compared to casings or monotubs and the casings/monotubs have much higher yields. i know that BRF cakes are not very good for casing/monotubing because they do not pour like rye, WBS, or another whole grain, so i am thinking if i have the equipment to do it (pressure cooker) why go the less efficient and more difficult way.


so i am probably going to go with a monotub but my only question now is humidity and air exchange. i do have the ultrasonic which is adjustable to the point where the mist it quite low already, coupled with a soda bottle in line i believe it would provide a manageable amount of humidity. Also i am contemplating buying the aquarium air pump from a pet store to provide fresh air, coupled with holes in the monotub. My idea is that the air pump would sufficiently diffuse the ultrasonic output which is already being diffused and allow me to use it and not be flooded, and keep good air exchange at the same time. I was thinking about getting a cool mist humidifier instead but i already have a ultrasonic and its got a control so why not try it and not have to hassle with another unit.


The setup is kinda lavish for a first time growing but i would like to make a reliable system from the get go.




Don't even worry about using a humidifier..  The mono tubs are kinda self sustaining..  If you look at pics of one..  The lower holes stuffed with polyfill withdraw the carbon dioxide and the upper holes bring in fresh air..  So there is your air exchange..  And as far as humidity the water evaporating from the casing mixture and substrate creates the humidity..  There is almost no need to mist or fan cause the water that evaporates from the casing and substrate is trapped in the box and collects on the sides and runs back down into the casing and substrate keeping it hydrated..  Humidifiers are really good for like greenhouses.. I have a 4 tier green house I may use and may not but mono tub is easy and stealth..  And u can stack then on each other..

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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: Damion5050]
    #8683480 - 07/26/08 09:24 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

fan manually for FAE its the surest way to provide it. No need to spend money on something that might not give you enough. Try your hand at cakes and grains since you have a PC. Grains aren't scarey or anything.


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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: Damion5050]
    #8683510 - 07/26/08 09:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

the main purpose for using the air pump was it would help reduce the humidity as well as providing a semi-automatic setup. the reasoning behind this is i don't want to be fanning my monotub multiple times a day. it would be possible currently because i am not in school but as soon as i go back to school i don't see me having the ability to fan or mist the box 3 to 4 times a day.


even if it did not provide enough air exchange if it is reduced to one fanning a day i could do that when i go to bed each night. as i said earlier i need to have stealth and am doing this in my closet or will be until i find a better place for it, and having to open my closet up over and over i just see it as a risk/hassle.


has anyone had success with aquarium air pumps for providing the air exchange in a monotub or fruiting chamber? if a cool mist humidifier can create the necessary air exchange in setups i would imagine the air pump would be more then enough. of course i don't have experience with this so who knows maybe it wont work.

something like this was what i was thinking:
http://www.aquariumguys.com/silentairpump5.html

or http://www.aquariumguys.com/tetraairpump3.html

whats another 20 bucks when you have already spent quite a deal on it, and it says it is rated for an 80 gallon aquarium which would be much larger then my monotub i would imagine.


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

Edited by willowmp (07/26/08 09:48 AM)

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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8684475 - 07/26/08 02:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

.


--------------------
"Fuck it too much Im outta wittbhjkhbhkjsrglhkrgl g I DEE JEUD."
-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8684955 - 07/26/08 04:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

willowmp said:
the main purpose for using the air pump was it would help reduce the humidity as well as providing a semi-automatic setup. the reasoning behind this is i don't want to be fanning my monotub multiple times a day. it would be possible currently because i am not in school but as soon as i go back to school i don't see me having the ability to fan or mist the box 3 to 4 times a day.


even if it did not provide enough air exchange if it is reduced to one fanning a day i could do that when i go to bed each night. as i said earlier i need to have stealth and am doing this in my closet or will be until i find a better place for it, and having to open my closet up over and over i just see it as a risk/hassle.


has anyone had success with aquarium air pumps for providing the air exchange in a monotub or fruiting chamber? if a cool mist humidifier can create the necessary air exchange in setups i would imagine the air pump would be more then enough. of course i don't have experience with this so who knows maybe it wont work.

something like this was what i was thinking:
http://www.aquariumguys.com/silentairpump5.html

or http://www.aquariumguys.com/tetraairpump3.html

whats another 20 bucks when you have already spent quite a deal on it, and it says it is rated for an 80 gallon aquarium which would be much larger then my monotub i would imagine.




Again as I said before if you set up your mono tub correctly you will not need to worry about the FAE or humidity they will take care of themselves..

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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: Damion5050]
    #8684975 - 07/26/08 04:39 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

since you have a PC find a grain tek and go that route.

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Offlineray40cal
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: jeetered]
    #8685021 - 07/26/08 04:51 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

my bad didn't know you were goin monotub. Those are self sufficient if you do em right.


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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: ray40cal]
    #8685155 - 07/26/08 05:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Grain > Bulk > Monotub 

Straight casing grains will be awfully wasteful if you're going monotub way.  Learn about spawning to bulk substrates and read, read, read.  Bulk substrates can stretch a minimal amount of spawn into a sizable yield of mushrooms.  Honestly, I don't know if I learned anything particularly useful fruiting cakes in standard FC's that I ended up using in bulk monotubs.. except maybe what good RH looks like, and possibly patience, but that was just an exercise. 

This is more likely to lead to failure, though.  We all fuck up grows, and maybe this will set you up for a sooner defeat, but what you learn will be lessons directly related to the techniques that more experienced growers use in their grows.  Don't be an idiot, get rushed, and fuck up.  Even if you skip the bulk step, grains over BRF is a no-brainer in my opinion, provided you have a PC. 



Good Luck.


--------------------


I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Offlinewillowmp
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: thedefone]
    #8686103 - 07/26/08 09:54 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

ok that sounds great and yes i am recieving a 23 quart PC on monday


looks like i need to do a little more studying in the bulk substrates department =D


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-Because it made sense on xanax and booze...

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OfflineDamion5050
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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: willowmp]
    #8686956 - 07/27/08 02:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

willowmp said:
ok that sounds great and yes i am recieving a 23 quart PC on monday


looks like i need to do a little more studying in the bulk substrates department =D


You can use straight coir coir or straw for a bulk substrate

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Re: Grain or BRF for a noobie with a PC. [Re: thedefone]
    #8687145 - 07/27/08 03:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thedefone said:
Grain > Bulk > Monotub 



This is more likely to lead to failure, though.  We all fuck up grows, and maybe this will set you up for a sooner defeat, but what you learn will be lessons directly related to the techniques that more experienced growers use in their grows.  Don't be an idiot, get rushed, and fuck up.  Even if you skip the bulk step, grains over BRF is a no-brainer in my opinion, provided you have a PC. 



Good Luck.







Yes this route can lead to utter failure. Doing Monotubs without much experience sounds to me like flying to Las Vegas with 10 grand going straight to the roulette table and putting it all on red. Sorry, black wins!. I hope you purchased a return ticket.

Do pf tek as a warm up. Look how much contams you got. The n while the pf jars are still incubating you can do some grain. A step by step approach is to my experience always better then trying it all at once.

Casing straight rye is hard to beat when it comes to efficiency. You do not have lot of room right! So use it more efficiently and do cased rye.

Do not get me wrong. I know that monotubs are a proven tek . Just recently I stumbled over fhaster monotubs. Great. But he is an experienced cultivator and even he can lose a tub. For him it is no big deal. He has  two more in the row. For you it could be game over.

Do not spend your money on ultrasonic and aquarium pumps. If you look for an automated fc design that works and is cheap look for shotgun fc by RR. If you set it up right you even can leave home for 4 days and everything is just fine.

Your situation with home growing and a mom which does not know about it, does not sound so good. Most of the time moms just know their is something going on...(Do not forget she is the person that probably knows you best.)

I read a thread on the shroomery where a guy told his mom and she even helped him with growing and so on....:D

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2935598/page/0/fpart/4/vc/1

Might be a good read!

So telling her about it might not be as silly as it sounds...of course this depends on your mom.

have fun...


--------------------
"People are crazy and times are strange
I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range
I used to care, but things have changed"
Bob Dylan

Edited by pontus (07/27/08 03:41 AM)

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